1 Topic by medon (edited by medon 2022-04-12 05:19:03)

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Topic: ADI-2 DAC -- fatiguing sound on Yamaha A-S801 -- SOLVED!

Update: Solved! See my post #6 below.
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Hello everyone,

few days ago I got me an ADI-2 DAC (revision B, AK4493).
The existing main DAC I use is the Denafrips ARES II.

Now here's my topic:
Compared to the ARES II the ADI-2 has an instantly annoying sound in high frequencies... but only on my big stereo!

I swapped everything between the ARES II and the ADI-2 (digital in, RCA interconnects to the amp) -- no change.
I fed Qobuz hi-res via USB, and via streamer (Argon Solo) SPDIF coax and Toslink... does not make a difference.

Only thing that makes the sound instantly likeable is to play a DSD file -- sound is smooth and pleasant.

With everything PCM, switching between different filters on the ADI-2 does not really make a difference to my hearing, means: I can hear that e.g. in NOS mode upper highs are softer (I also measured it using REW), but the annoyance to my ears does not change a bit. Sampling rates used do not change the degree of annoyance.

Now here comes the interesting part: all the complaints wink stated above are true for my big stereo system. With other systems:

1) the ADI-2 really ROCKS my Audeze LCD2c -- amazing!! No fatigue, just crystal clear sound with loads of bass texture. It runs in circles around my Audioquest Cobalt.

2) the ADI-2 right now is hooked to a friend's EVO150 at his place, so playing to a different set of speakers, too.
Here, the ADI-2 also shows none of the sound signature that instantly bothered my with my own system. Just for fun I brought my own RCA interconnects I also use at my place.
BTW, we both agree that the ADI-2 is superior in most regards to the EVO150 DAC. wink

So:
With my stereo, I cannot enjoy the sound; with two other setups, the ADI-2 sounds just fine, even great.
Question is: why, and what to do about it?

My own system is a Yamaha A-S801 integrated class AB amp. Speakers are the Yungson Elite Aesthet 6: These are 3-way floor standing speakers with quite good Scan Speak drivers.
The speakers have good resolution and transparency, IMHO compared to many other speakers I listened to.

I am pretty confident that nothing is broken with either my amp or my speakers.

Any ideas how to investigate my issue with subjectively fatiguing sound further?
Could it be that I have a bad pairing between the ADI-2 and the Yamaha A-S801 regarding impedances or so? (I read about impedance issues with pre-/power amp combinations).

Cheers, Medon

2 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2022-04-09 21:10:25)

  • KaiS
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Re: ADI-2 DAC -- fatiguing sound on Yamaha A-S801 -- SOLVED!

Yamaha integrated amps are notorious for not being able to distortion-free handle levels above ca. 2 Volts / +8 dBu.

What you hear simply are distortions from an overdriven Yamaha input.
This is why it works nicely with other amps.

If you still run ADI-2 DAC with factory default settings (suggested), turn down the Volume to -12 dBr (XLR), -6 dBr (RCA), or a bit less.

KaiS's Website

  • medon
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Re: ADI-2 DAC -- fatiguing sound on Yamaha A-S801 -- SOLVED!

@KaiS
will try!
... only wonder what the technical background is. The ADI-2 was set to the same volume as the other DAC (and the CD player, btw).
Cheers!

4 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2022-04-10 00:14:56)

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Re: ADI-2 DAC -- fatiguing sound on Yamaha A-S801 -- SOLVED!

medon wrote:

... only wonder what the technical background is. The ADI-2 was set to the same volume as the other DAC (and the CD player, btw).
Cheers!

Taken from Yamaha A-S801’s user manual, page 18:

Maximum input signal
CD etc. ... : 2.2 V

Have ADI’s Auto Reference Level function active (factory default), use the figures mentioned, and you’re fine.

Subtract another 3 dB if your music contains significant amounts of intersample peaks, like contemporary Pop, Hip-Hop, Metal ect.:

Volume for RCA -11 dBr.

KaiS's Website

5 Reply by medon (edited by medon 2022-04-11 07:15:01)

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Re: ADI-2 DAC -- fatiguing sound on Yamaha A-S801 -- SOLVED!

... so I grabbed my friend's EVO150 and put it next to the Yamaha A-S801, serving the speakers in my home.
Quick wrap-up:
- the two external DACs (ARESII and ADI2) retain their characteristics on both amps. The ARESII remains the overall much smoother one.
- I guess my speakers and my current state of hearing lead to that annoyance I experience when listening to the ADI2.
- BTW, the EVO's internal DAC is IMHO clearly 3rd place, so while the overall package of the EVO is interesting, I really start to think what all the rave is about these devices.
- Output level of the ADI2 is even a tad lower compared to the ARESII at the ADI2's Ref. level +7dBu / 0dB, so running the Yamaha's input too hot does not seem to be an issue here.
- Lowering the ADI2's output either digitally or by lowering the output reference level does not change the sound signature in my chain (much).

Anyway, the ADI2 will move over to my desk and serve my Audeze now. wink

Cheers, and thanks for your suggestions!

  • medon
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Re: ADI-2 DAC -- fatiguing sound on Yamaha A-S801 -- SOLVED!

medon wrote:

- I guess my speakers and my current state of hearing lead to that annoyance I experience when listening to the ADI2.

... one step closer to redemption:
Yesterday I picked up a Isotek AC filter device (Polaris 3) and connected all my stereo devices to it.

It is incredible - that annoyance is gone! The sound is much improved now overall, with both DACs (ADI2 and ARESII).
Feeling very happy and a little silly now for not having paid attention to this topic earlier.

The ADI2 led me here ;-) -- thanks to its bright and precise sound signature. Case closed for me.

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Re: ADI-2 DAC -- fatiguing sound on Yamaha A-S801 -- SOLVED!

One more addendum:

I borrowed a Yamaha A-S3200 (a way BIGGER cousin of the A-S801) and did some comparisons.

Connected via XLR, the RME ADI2 sounds beautiful now. Precise, clean, no annoyance at all.
Actually it caught up dramatically now with the ARES 2.

Cheers!