Topic: Need an older firmware

Why was my previous thread deleted? I'm looking for the ADI-2 DAC 66 / 41 firmware, I've seen you've helped guys in the past and also see that people mention to contact crew in case of older firmware. I can also try the contact formular if you think that's better.

Please do no delete the thread without at least giving some explanation on how to proceed, this isn't a good way of doing customer service.

2 (edited by KaiS 2022-04-15 15:09:48)

Re: Need an older firmware

RPGWiZaRD wrote:

Why was my previous thread deleted? I'm looking for the ADI-2 DAC 66 / 41 firmware...

I don‘t see a reason to delete this posting, I already wanted to answer and then it disappeared.
Are you sure you didn’t accidentally delete it by yourself?

I had a look in my own archive, but all I have is:
ADI-2 DAC FPGA 27, DSP 33 from 2019-10-14
ADI-2 DAC FPGA 78, DSP 48 from 2022-01-19

What’s so special about the version you ask for?


EDIT:
Here’s an official list with links to most published firmware versions (some links are heading to other than the denoted FW):
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 80#p143080

3 (edited by RPGWiZaRD 2022-04-15 16:09:48)

Re: Need an older firmware

It was the firmware (USB 66 / DSP 41, link: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=33593) that came pre-installed with my ADI-2 DAC FS that I've owned for maybe a month or so. I decided to finally try updating the firmware as I wanted to see whether I liked the change about the EQ. I checked beforehand if it was possible to downgrade firmware later if I for some reason have issues or liked the previous better, I searched the forum and saw some posts that you can contact the crew if that's the case and even saw some older post where the moderator MC had offered some older version in some old thread.

-I think I prefer the older EQ settings and I also think it was unnecessary to raise B/T as far as much as up to 12dB. Also furthermore it might be totally in my head but I thought the previous firmware sounded very slightly different but it might have been because of a setting possibly that I've changed but it would give me a lot of peace of mind being able to go back n forth to check whether that's the case or not, now it leaves me pondering.

I understand from a company's point of view it's not advisable to have to deal with multiple firmware support and I totally get that, I also believe probably like for 80% of users sticking to the latest firmware is probably working out fine. But those 20% powerusers/special case issue users or for whatever reason prefers the other firmware should be allowed to at least use the older firmware. They could easily link to an archieve with older firmware but give a disclaimer "This is only for experimenting and you aren't getting any support if using an older firmware" type of disclaimer and I'm sure those users are okay with that (incl. me). At least I believe it's the better option than try to silence those users, just make it hard to acquire (but possible).

4 (edited by KaiS 2022-04-15 16:24:11)

Re: Need an older firmware

The link list I pointed you at is intended to serve for what you’re asking for.
Unfortunately for the exact version you want the link heads wrong.


To find out which FW version sounds maybe marginally different is out of my scope.
The only way for me to find out would be, to blind A/B two identical ADI-2s.
The time it takes to do the updates simply is too long for a valid comparison.
Even when the “improved” FS Clock came out I didn’t notice any obvious sound difference, although I used my ADI-2 Pro a lot, before and after.


Even if it sounds trivial:
you won’t need to use the extended range of B/T.
Personally I like and use it, and having B/T fully integrate it into the PEQ now is a big step forward for my use case.


@MC:
If you find some time it might be worth to fix the broken links.

5

Re: Need an older firmware

KaiS wrote:
RPGWiZaRD wrote:

Why was my previous thread deleted? I'm looking for the ADI-2 DAC 66 / 41 firmware...

I don‘t see a reason to delete this posting]

I do. RPGWiZard had requested that firmware from support, I had it already sent to support to send to him. The post was therefore unneccessary and causing multi-work. As it does now.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

6 (edited by RPGWiZaRD 2022-04-16 11:25:20)

Re: Need an older firmware

MC wrote:
KaiS wrote:
RPGWiZaRD wrote:

Why was my previous thread deleted? I'm looking for the ADI-2 DAC 66 / 41 firmware...

I don‘t see a reason to delete this posting]

I do. RPGWiZard had requested that firmware from support, I had it already sent to support to send to him. The post was therefore unneccessary and causing multi-work. As it does now.

Okay, sorry. Yea I recieved the file this morning from support. Was unsure whether I'd recieve any response since from my experience the people checking mails are often advised in certain ways regarding certain questions so unsure how they'd go about an older firmware request and seen people have had success here in the forum but yea should have waited longer before contacting both ways, my apologizies.

From a quick comparison I think I've found one setting that might have had an influence on how I felt regarding the sound difference in the latest firmware. In the newest firmware there is a new setting "Dig DC Protection" setting in the I/O section, by default this was set to "Filter" but turning it to "On" (or Off) it sounds ever so slightly better to me and puts it roughly on same level comparing the two firmwares. Reading the description I suppose it could have a tiny impact on the sound but I don't think many people even notices the difference as it's a fairly small one. Personally I'm a hobby mastering engineer that have mastered over like 2000 tracks probably so I've gotten quite used to spotting tiny differences, both a blessing and curse when it comes to audio as you are always listening for tiny details sorta instead of just enjoying the music.

Anyway thanks for your help

7 (edited by Curt962 2022-04-16 14:14:02)

Re: Need an older firmware

Wiz,

Indications to me over time suggests that RME is quite responsive to user inquiries.

Digital DC Protection:   A Godsend for some.  It works at 7hz (!) So.. if you're hearing "Differences" You have either exceptional hearing, Magic Speakers, or a combination of both.  wink

Expectation Bias is a strange thing!  You KNOW there's a filter involved, so our Brain is easily tricked into hearing it!  Truth is, You don't hear it.

Have Fun with your RME!   It's a Joy!

Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

8 (edited by RPGWiZaRD 2022-04-16 14:41:37)

Re: Need an older firmware

The difference I'm hearing is probably not what it's supposed to do but rather some side effect I'm guessing that comes with the filter. You know a bit like comparing one EQ to another the end result with same adjustment is typically not entirely the same as they do it with slightly different end results why for example this DAC's parametric EQ will be better than your "onboard sound" built-in EQ that sounds horrible in comparison if doing more than some 1.5dB adjustments with obvious non-wanted distortion.

I'm using headphones, a pre-amp and this DAC. The difference comes best forth in EDM music where the beats come across as slightly more punchy & dynamic sounding, the body of the kick sorta stands out a little better in the mix if turning the Dig DC Protection to "On" rather than "Filter" setting. It's a pretty similar difference as comparing the DA filter SD Sharp vs SD smooth setting for example.

Anyway this device is a fantastic tool in what I use it for, definitely among my best purchases ever.

9 (edited by Curt962 2022-04-16 15:29:27)

Re: Need an older firmware

Wiz,

I have only admiration for DDCP.   When home, I adore Radio Streams from around the Globe.  You can't always trust them though, and DDCP works for me as an inaudible form of protection against whatever trash MIGHT come down the line.

7hz? Wiz?  Are you serious?  The Scientific Community would really like to meet with you. wink

Crank up some Daft Punk, and have Fun my friend!

Best!

Curt

*Late Edit:   Wiz, I couldn't imagine a World wherein the RMEs of that place didn't send down cool FW updates!   My Antique ADI-2 DAC has been upgraded so many times via FW with REALLY useful things!  It's simply BETTER than the Box I first bought!   Not like the Old Times when a factory "Mod" might cost you $500, and all they did was re-flow the Solder on the Vol. Pot.....  sad    You might already know my thoughts on that, and it begins with the letter "F"  smile

Fanboy?   (Not the Word I had in mind in the last paragraph)  Yeah maybe I am, but it's the least I can do as a form of "Thanks" for RME's superb product support, and ongoing development. 

Good Stuff!

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

10 (edited by KaiS 2022-04-16 17:31:04)

Re: Need an older firmware

Curt962 wrote:

7hz? Wiz?  Are you serious?  The Scientific Community would really like to meet with you. wink

I can confirm from my experience in studio work that High Pass Filters outside the audio band can have an impact on the sound.

My hypothesis is, these signals are so slow that they are not received as frequency, but as single events.
If you remove these events it will have an impact on the sound.
One needs speakers or headphones (like the early models from AUDEZE) that are capable of reproducing these frequencies to perceive the difference.

11 (edited by Curt962 2022-04-16 23:06:59)

Re: Need an older firmware

Wiz,

Interesting concept.  Yet what produces a <7hz signal?   A Musician dropping dead in front of the Mic might make quite a "Thud", but beyond that?

Let me check my "Less than 10hz" Music collection....

LF Trash isn't truly audible, steals power, and causes more problems than benefits.   Reminiscent in fact of the 90khz harmonics that many Audiophiles "claim" to hear.   wink

I'm calling BS on this matter, as the Greatest Mastering Engineer to have ever walked the Earth (Robert "Bob" Ludwig) would have never allowed such Distortion-Producing infrasonic elements in his Award Winning works.



Curt

Vintage 2018 ADI-2 DAC. "Classic AKM4490 Edition"
Cables:  Red, and White Ones.
Speakers:  Yes

12 (edited by KaiS 2022-04-17 01:08:12)

Re: Need an older firmware

Curt962 wrote:

Wiz,Interesting concept.  Yet what produces a <7hz signal?   A Musician dropping dead in front of the Mic might make quite a "Thud", but beyond that?

... for example smile


Seriously:
Every percussion instrument produces subs.
Percussion is based on a single pulse, the hit on the instrument.
Physically a pulse contains all frequencies down to DC.
Vocal plosives in front of a mic are another example.
Electronic sound contains subs quite often, even more so if produced in the digital domain completely.

Remember the DC content discussion that led to introducing the DC Filter in ADI-2.

Several circumstances filter them, like the size and resonance of the instrument, the cutoff of microphone and, on purpose, the preamp etc., but never completely removes all sub low content (filters have limited steepness).

The DPA 4003 mic, commonly used for drums, percussion and as main mic for classical, is defined down to ~2 Hz e.g.
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/80008 … =12#manual


Curt962 wrote:

Let me check my "Less than 10hz" Music collection....tc.,

Using an FFT Analyzer reveals a lot, you will be astonished.

Curt962 wrote:

LF Trash isn't truly audible, steals power, and causes more problems than benefits.

Of course, this is why we try to remove them, usually on a per track basis during production, if their amount is significant.
My studio monitors reproduce subs enough to give me a warning sign.
Usually it’s a single event that I edit out.

Curt962 wrote:

   Reminiscent in fact of the 90khz harmonics that many Audiophiles "claim" to hear.   wink tc.,

But this time the signal is not outside humans ability to perceive, if you speakers system is capable to reproduce it. 

Curt962 wrote:

I'm calling BS on this matter, as the Greatest Mastering Engineer to have ever walked the Earth (Robert "Bob" Ludwig) would have never allowed such Distortion-Producing infrasonic elements in his Award Winning works.

This is why we try to remove it.

For vinyl e.g. subs are an absolute no-go, remember the famous Overture 1812 recording where the canon shots can throw the pickup out of the groove.
It’s sold a lot of copies only for that “feature” smile
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/attachments/telarc-1812-jpg.859049/

Here’s a microscope foto of the groove:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/attachments/1812-vinyl-jpg.859050/

13 (edited by KaiS 2022-04-17 08:35:21)

Re: Need an older firmware

With the famous TELARC - Erich Kunzel, Cincinati Pops recording of Overture 1812 I can hear a difference in the cannon shots at position from 14:40 on.
https://tidal.com/track/36147753

Mainly the decay of the cannons sounds different between Dig. DC Protection “ON” (= no filter) vs. “Filter”.
The “flabby” ambience decay is lowered by the filter, and it might be (unsure) the cannon’s attacks are better integrated in the mix with the filter on!

Listening to some random contemporary EDM music I think I can detect a difference between Filter or not too.
E.g. like: https://tidal.com/track/224348338


I listened on STAX SR-009, having a frequency response that reaches significantly below 20 Hz, DC coupled STAX amp.

For me this confirms that frequencies below 7 Hz are kind of audible, and using ADI-2’s Dig. DC Protection Filter can make an audible difference.
I would not say that I like it better one way or the other.


Sidenote:
The Dig. DC Protection Filter does not change the peak level like discussed in this thread:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=35199
Probably a “Linear Phase” design.

Re: Need an older firmware

KaiS wrote:

With the famous TELARC - Erich Kunzel, Cincinati Pops recording of Overture 1812 I can hear a difference in the cannon shots at position from 14:40 on.
https://tidal.com/track/36147753

Mainly the decay of the cannons sounds different between Dig. DC Protection “ON” (= no filter) vs. “Filter”.
The “flabby” ambience decay is lowered by the filter, and it might be (unsure) the cannon’s attacks are better integrated in the mix with the filter on!

Listening to some random contemporary EDM music I think I can detect a difference between Filter or not too.
E.g. like: https://tidal.com/track/224348338


I listened on STAX SR-009, having a frequency response that reaches significantly below 20 Hz, DC coupled STAX amp.

For me this confirms that frequencies below 7 Hz are kind of audible, and using ADI-2’s Dig. DC Protection Filter can make an audible difference.
I would not say that I like it better one way or the other.


Sidenote:
The Dig. DC Protection Filter does not change the peak level like discussed in this thread:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=35199
Probably a “Linear Phase” design.


KaiS, the DC filter did its job and cut something out, it is the actual difference when it applied, I believe some people can hear it and some not. For safety purpose, I leave the filter on.

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
Reading words on paper/ screen

15

Re: Need an older firmware

KaiS wrote:

Sidenote:
The Dig. DC Protection Filter does not change the peak level like discussed in this thread:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=35199
Probably a “Linear Phase” design.

Definitely not, that would cause an enormous delay. But the filter is not only very low but also 1st order, so peak effects are hard to confirm (I could with specialized test signal, with about 0.5 dB max, so nothing to worry about).

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

16 (edited by KaiS 2022-04-17 11:02:55)

Re: Need an older firmware

Johannes AU wrote:

KaiS, the DC filter did its job and cut something out, it is the actual difference when it applied, I believe some people can hear it and some not.

That’s exactly what’s been the question for me, and what made this thread start:

Are frequencies below 7 Hz audible?
My answer, despite “common knowledge”, clearly says - yes.


Of course, the music must contain them, and you need a system that is capable of reproducing them.

Seems contemporary music production quite often contain such frequencies, my 2nd music example wasn’t specially selected, but the first title from the “What’s New This Week” playlist in Tidal.


On my Mysphere 3.2 I don’t hear a difference, such low frequencies simply are not reproduced there anyway.


For the sound, better or worse, I can’t decide.
For me it simply doesn’t matter.

I have Dig. DC Protection “ON”, but not the “Filter”.
Warning screen was never triggered since, might even be because I have an typical listening level of -30 dBr or less.

For those listening to ill-processed sources like the originally mentioned internet radio channels that led to introducing the option, the filter is a great relief for sure.

17 (edited by Johannes AU 2022-04-17 11:59:50)

Re: Need an older firmware

KaiS wrote:
Johannes AU wrote:

KaiS, the DC filter did its job and cut something out, it is the actual difference when it applied, I believe some people can hear it and some not.

That’s exactly what’s been the question for me, and what made this thread start:

Are frequencies below 7 Hz audible?
My answer, despite “common knowledge”, clearly says - yes.


Of course, the music must contain them, and you need a system that is capable of reproducing them.

Seems contemporary music production quite often contain such frequencies, my 2nd music example wasn’t specially selected, but the first title from the “What’s New This Week” playlist in Tidal.


On my Mysphere 3.2 I don’t hear a difference, such low frequencies simply are not reproduced there anyway.


For the sound, better or worse, I can’t decide.
For me it simply doesn’t matter.

I have Dig. DC Protection “ON”, but not the “Filter”.
Warning screen was never triggered since, might even be because I have an typical listening level of -30 dBr or less.

For those listening to ill-processed sources like the originally mentioned internet radio channels that led to introducing the option, the filter is a great relief for sure.

I understand at headphone use, low volume listening is safe without filter (normally I listen at -20dB or less), at line out, I prefer to leave it at "filter" because it is a -5dBr, volume control at the intergrated amp.

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
Reading words on paper/ screen

18 (edited by Johannes AU 2022-04-17 12:12:07)

Re: Need an older firmware

KaiS wrote:
Curt962 wrote:

Wiz,Interesting concept.  Yet what produces a <7hz signal?   A Musician dropping dead in front of the Mic might make quite a "Thud", but beyond that?

... for example smile


Seriously:
Every percussion instrument produces subs.
Percussion is based on a single pulse, the hit on the instrument.
Physically a pulse contains all frequencies down to DC.
Vocal plosives in front of a mic are another example.
Electronic sound contains subs quite often, even more so if produced in the digital domain completely.

Remember the DC content discussion that led to introducing the DC Filter in ADI-2.

Several circumstances filter them, like the size and resonance of the instrument, the cutoff of microphone and, on purpose, the preamp etc., but never completely removes all sub low content (filters have limited steepness).

The DPA 4003 mic, commonly used for drums, percussion and as main mic for classical, is defined down to ~2 Hz e.g.
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/80008 … =12#manual


Curt962 wrote:

Let me check my "Less than 10hz" Music collection....tc.,

Using an FFT Analyzer reveals a lot, you will be astonished.

Curt962 wrote:

LF Trash isn't truly audible, steals power, and causes more problems than benefits.

Of course, this is why we try to remove them, usually on a per track basis during production, if their amount is significant.
My studio monitors reproduce subs enough to give me a warning sign.
Usually it’s a single event that I edit out.

Curt962 wrote:

   Reminiscent in fact of the 90khz harmonics that many Audiophiles "claim" to hear.   wink tc.,

But this time the signal is not outside humans ability to perceive, if you speakers system is capable to reproduce it. 

Curt962 wrote:

I'm calling BS on this matter, as the Greatest Mastering Engineer to have ever walked the Earth (Robert "Bob" Ludwig) would have never allowed such Distortion-Producing infrasonic elements in his Award Winning works.

This is why we try to remove it.

For vinyl e.g. subs are an absolute no-go, remember the famous Overture 1812 recording where the canon shots can throw the pickup out of the groove.
It’s sold a lot of copies only for that “feature” smile
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/attachments/telarc-1812-jpg.859049/

Here’s a microscope foto of the groove:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/attachments/1812-vinyl-jpg.859050/


I agree with that 7Hz is an event, when it is a stand alone tone of 7Hz, we hardly can hear it, but together with some other frequencies, we can feel it, could be from the vibration of the voice cone, or merged in the music piece make it sounds different from without it, similar as the Sub.

Sennheiser IE800 and HD800 can be low as 5Hz or 4Hz, they measured it with instrument, proven though some people cannot hear it. It is like temperature and pressure, cannot see it but felt.

Pacifist, dumb, not stupid
Listen music out from a box which sounds
Reading words on paper/ screen