Re: De-Emphasis makes speakers sound unclear

> I saw that list as well, I don't think I have any of them. My conclusion would be "fewer than I expeced"... :-)

I have plenty of them. When I was young, I purchased CDs by following the penguins guide (The Penguin Guide to Recorded Classical Music) and many of the recommended CDs were in early 80s with PE.

Glenn Gould's 1981 version of Goldberg Variations was the very first classical CD I've listened.
It was also one of the first DDD recordings. That one was PE-ed. but only in subcode, not toc.

Sony later released a ADD remaster of the same performance and sounds much, much better than the previous DDD recording.
Seems digital music in 80s was a mess. In many cases, remastered analog recording of that time are much better.

52 (edited by sophosutm01 2022-06-21 07:46:43)

Re: De-Emphasis makes speakers sound unclear

Just a little update

I tested the De-Emphasis AUTO and OFF, because ON did change the sound on the tracks, with “veil” on all of them.

Between AUTO and OFF I had some “placebo” issues and just convinced myself that there were no difference….very small difference

All in all. The thing that make me lik this DAC was the earthplug. It sound freaking amazing now.

53 (edited by KaiS 2022-06-21 08:29:30)

Re: De-Emphasis makes speakers sound unclear

sophosutm01 wrote:

Between AUTO and OFF I had some “placebo” issues and just convinced myself that there were no difference….very small difference

There’s no half way between De-Emphasis On or Off.
So AUTO either makes a remarkable difference to OFF (if it activates De-Emphasis), or non.

The “very small difference” is the power of imagination, or call it Placebo.

If’s a proven fact that Placebo works, even if the testers know it’s Placebo - funny, isn’t it!


The only way to exclude this effect is blind testing, that’s what I do whenever I compare stuff.

Re: De-Emphasis makes speakers sound unclear

Hello everyone,

in conjunction with an old DVD player regarding pre-emphasis, I observed that the RME DAC doesn't apply the de-emphasis EQ at higher sample rates, but 44.1 kHz (and probably 48 kHz as well) only which doesn't surprise, given that in the old days, these most likely had been the only rates which went along with the pre-emphasis concept anyway.

However, to be completely consistent, the option in the menu then consequently should get "greyed out" in my opinion, as both settings "on" or "off" show no audible difference.

To make it even clearer, the behavior is the following:

Pre-emphased CD -> Panasonic S47 -> native 44.1 kHz setting: player outputs the unaltered bitstream and correctly sets the pre-emphasis S/PDIF flag. On the ADI-2 Pro 2/4 then de-emphasis "auto" equals "on" whereas "off" sounds too bright.

Pre-emphased CD -> Panasonic S47 -> "AV Enhancer" setting, leading to upsampling to 176.4 kHz: player outputs the already de-emphasised data altered and correctly doesn't set the pre-emphasis S/PDIF flag anymore. On the ADI-2 Pro 2/4 then de-emphasis "auto" equals "off" which is expected, but sounds exactly the same if set to "on", which is counterintuitive.

Panasonic S47 -> native 44.1 kHz setting: player outputs the unaltered bitstream and of course doesn't flag. On the ADI-2 Pro 2/4 then de-emphasis "auto" equals "off" and "on" sounds too muffled.

CD without pre-emphasis -> Panasonic S47 -> "AV Enhancer" setting, leading to upsampling to 176.4 kHz: player outputs the altered data. On the ADI-2 Pro 2/4 then de-emphasis doesn't change whether it is set to "auto", "off" or "on", which is counterintuitive.

Also, it would be interesting whether RME relies on the DAC chips de-emphasis circuit which I guess also only supports it for "low" sample rates or they do it with their own EQ. The manual suggests the former for me and I also think that I read somewhere that one can replicate the de-emphasis filter also by using the EQ function in fact but somehow, I can't find it right now, brrr.

Re: De-Emphasis makes speakers sound unclear

little-endian wrote:

Hello everyone,

in conjunction with an old DVD player regarding pre-emphasis, I observed that the RME DAC doesn't apply the de-emphasis EQ at higher sample rates, but 44.1 kHz (and probably 48 kHz as well) only which doesn't surprise, given that in the old days, these most likely had been the only rates which went along with the pre-emphasis concept anyway.

However, to be completely consistent, the option in the menu then consequently should get "greyed out" in my opinion, as both settings "on" or "off" show no audible difference.

To make it even clearer, the behavior is the following:

Pre-emphased CD -> Panasonic S47 -> native 44.1 kHz setting: player outputs the unaltered bitstream and correctly sets the pre-emphasis S/PDIF flag. On the ADI-2 Pro 2/4 then de-emphasis "auto" equals "on" whereas "off" sounds too bright.

Pre-emphased CD -> Panasonic S47 -> "AV Enhancer" setting, leading to upsampling to 176.4 kHz: player outputs the already de-emphasised data altered and correctly doesn't set the pre-emphasis S/PDIF flag anymore. On the ADI-2 Pro 2/4 then de-emphasis "auto" equals "off" which is expected, but sounds exactly the same if set to "on", which is counterintuitive.

Panasonic S47 -> native 44.1 kHz setting: player outputs the unaltered bitstream and of course doesn't flag. On the ADI-2 Pro 2/4 then de-emphasis "auto" equals "off" and "on" sounds too muffled.

CD without pre-emphasis -> Panasonic S47 -> "AV Enhancer" setting, leading to upsampling to 176.4 kHz: player outputs the altered data. On the ADI-2 Pro 2/4 then de-emphasis doesn't change whether it is set to "auto", "off" or "on", which is counterintuitive.

Also, it would be interesting whether RME relies on the DAC chips de-emphasis circuit which I guess also only supports it for "low" sample rates or they do it with their own EQ. The manual suggests the former for me and I also think that I read somewhere that one can replicate the de-emphasis filter also by using the EQ function in fact but somehow, I can't find it right now, brrr.

If that was implemented how would you enable de-emphasis if you're currently imputing high sampling rate, but might wanna play CD later? your suggestion doesn't make any sense.

56

Re: De-Emphasis makes speakers sound unclear

See the other thread - we'll check if 'greyed out' is possible for this menu entry.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME