• Registered: 2022-05-16
  • Posts: 13

Topic: Digiface USB + 2x Ferrofish Pulse 16 + Adi 2 Pro

Hi,

I'm not very good with connecting stuff so would really appreciate you're help if it's possible.

My current main interface is a Fireface 802 which i have connected to a Adi 2 Pro fs r be and a Ferrofish Pulse 16 via adat for an extra 16 i/o.

My setup of outboard gear and synths have grown and I ordered a second Pulse 16 which would give me 32 extra i/o. This was without even checking if it was possible in my setup, which it isn't since the 802s limited by 16 io via adat?

My question here is this:

I have a Digiface USB, which is a 66 channel interface.
If I switch out my 802 with the Digiface, and have the Digiface as my main hub and interface, I would be able to connect everything and still use all the features the Adi 2 pro brings?

In my head this setup would be something like this:

Digiface running with usb from my computer.
4 adat cables from the Digiface connected to the 1st Ferrofish Pulse 16 giving me all 16 ins & outs (Pulse 16 has 8 adat ports) Then from the remaining 4 adat ports of the 1st Pulse 16 I would connect the 2nd Pulse 16, giving me another 16 ins & outs. So all in all 32 ins &  32 outs. I would also use 2 adat ports on the Digiface to connect my ADI-2 Pro and have that as clock and running my monitors from the AES out.

Is this possible? I'm a bit unsure if you can daisy chain the Pulse 16s the way I explained. If I have to connect them both directly to the Digiface I would only have 2 adat ports left on the Digiface, but what could work for me is to just connect it to the ins on the 2nd Pulse 16, so I would use that unit only for instruments that only use Ins, not outs.

Hope this all make sense and that someone can confirm this works the way my dumb brain think it does..

Best,
Oliver

2 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2022-08-01 11:47:20)

  • ramses
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Re: Digiface USB + 2x Ferrofish Pulse 16 + Adi 2 Pro

Hi Oliver,

Digiface USB and 802 use different ASIO driver, so it's not possible to run these two in parallel. Even then, you would have to sacrifice one ADAT connection for sharing clock between 802 and Digiface USB as it has no WC. Not so well.

Best IMHO to bring some structure into your setup. Get the MADI extension for your both Pulse 16 so that they become Pulse 16M. Then sell 802 and Digiface USB. Get UFX+ with MADI support.

Cabling:

    PC---------USB--------- ARC USB
     |
USB3 or TB
     |
     |   +----- AES, ADAT1 or ADAT2--->------ADI-2 Pro FS R BE----  Act. Monitors or Headphones2
     |   |                                                                                \-------  Headphones1
+--UFX+ (clock master)----------->-----+
|                                                           |
|                                                           |  MADI (OM3/OM4)
|                                                           |
+-----Pulse16M-----Pulse16M----<----+

For RME equipment you can get a good price for selling equipment used, esp. if it's new, in good condition and has warranty.
For a used device over 2y you can expect 75% of street price. With warranty I am sure you can get around 80%.
If you just bought, maybe you can arrange with your shop to e.g., replace 802 by UFX+.

As a side note, the upgrade to Pulse 16M doesn't cost you more compared to direct purchase of the 16M model, so this is uncritical.

The other nice thing about MADI … the cables can be up to 2 km long between devices, so you can even distribute everything nicely through different rooms in a house.

You can choose either OM3 or OM4 multimode fiber cables. I would use OM4 cables as this is the new de facto standard, which you can also nicely use for computer networks. It allows for longer cable length for high-speed connections, which you do not have for recording/MADI, but it's beneficial to stay with one cable type esp. if you have or plan for structured in-house cabling, better of one type -> e.g., OM4): https://www.reichelt.de/duplex-lwl-patc … &nbc=1

See also this consulting thread … a MADI setup is really pleasant.
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 56#p151356

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2022-05-16
  • Posts: 13

Re: Digiface USB + 2x Ferrofish Pulse 16 + Adi 2 Pro

ramses wrote:

Hi Oliver,

Digiface USB and 802 use different ASIO driver, so its not possible to run these two in parallel. Even then you would have to had to sacrifice one ADAT connection for sharing clock between 802 and Digiface USB as it has no WC. Not so well.

Best IMHO to bring some structure into your setup. Get the MADI extension for your both Pulse 16, so that they become Pulse 16M. Then sell 802 and Digiface USB. Get UFX+ with MADI support.

Cabling:

    PC---------USB--------- ARC USB
     |
USB3 or TB
     |
     |   +----- AES, ADAT1 or ADAT2--->------ADI-2 Pro FS R BE----  Act. Monitors or Headphones2
     |   |                                                                                \-------  Headphones1
+--UFX+ (clock master)----------->-----+
|                                                           |
|                                                           |
+-----Pulse16M-----Pulse16M----<----+

For RME equipment you can get a good price for selling equipment used, esp if it's new, in good condition and has warranty.
For a used device over 2y you can expect 75% of street price. With warranty I am sure you can get around 80%.
If you just bought, maybe you can make an arrangement with your shop to e.g. replace 802 by UFX+.

BTW the upgrade to Pulse 16M doesn't cost you more compared to direct purchase of the 16M model, so this is uncritical.

Ramses, you're a hero for taking the time and giving me such a detailed response.

Ok, will try and get myself a Ufx + asap!

Will buy the madi modules from Ferrofish. Its multimode I'm going for? Tried searching and reading about multimode vs single mode, a person like me not knowing alot about madi wouldn't know what's what, Hehe.

Best,
Oliver

4 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2022-08-01 11:42:56)

  • ramses
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Re: Digiface USB + 2x Ferrofish Pulse 16 + Adi 2 Pro

Single mode is laser if 2 km between each of the devices in a MADI “ring” structure should not be sufficient.
You can't mix it with multimode, the one or the other.
Laser light can hurt your eyes, that's why you should prefer multimode, then you do not need to worry to look into open ports or unprotected cable ends where laser is active.
Incidentally: added some information in my last post #2 above, please re-read.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2022-05-16
  • Posts: 13

Re: Digiface USB + 2x Ferrofish Pulse 16 + Adi 2 Pro

Hi Ramses (& everyone else)!

I was lucky enough to get a hold of a UFX+!
Right now I'm only waiting for the Madi modules from Ferrofish, so I can upgrade my two Pulse 16s to Madi. They will arrive tomorrow if everything goes smoothly. 

Thank you for all your help Ramses and for talking me into this setup, it feels very future proof, tidy & sturdy wink

Like I said in previous posts, the technical side of Cabling is a major problem for me.. (your diagram was very helpful of course!) Can you just confirm this looks alright?

I ended up ordering these two cables, one for connecting the pulse 16s to the UFX+ and one for daisychaining them, they look alright to you?:

https://www.direktronik.se/direktronik/ … x-yd-20mm/

https://www.direktronik.se/direktronik/ … urkos-om4/


Setup:

Main interface: RME UFX+ connected via Madi to my two Pulse 16s (linked through madi) -- 32 I/O

UFX+ connected via ADAT to my ADI-2 Pro FS R BE. Am I correct in using the AES port from the ADI-2 to my Genelec 8341s? Not to the UFX+'s AES port?

Also, if you have time, would you mind explaining why i should use the UFX+ as clock master and not the ADI-2?

I do remember you told me in another thread that I will still benefit from the steadyclock and features that the ADI-2 has.
I just want to make sure im connecting everything properly and that I make most out of all this when I'm recording and mixing smile

Best,
Oliver

6 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2022-08-03 05:33:11)

  • ramses
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Re: Digiface USB + 2x Ferrofish Pulse 16 + Adi 2 Pro

The two OM4 cables are fine, you need:

— 2x SC to LC (from UFX+ to Pulse16M and vice versa)
— 1x LC to LC (from Pulse16M to Pulse16M)

UFX+-----SC to LC----->Pulse16M-----LC to LC----->Pulse16M-----LC to SC----->UFX+

Regarding clock: for operational reasons, I would use the UFX+ as clock master. Then the application sets the clock through the ASIO driver and the connected clock slaves can learn the clock through MADI.
But this has limitations if you change, e.g., from single to double speed and vice versa. ADAT and MADI use port multiplexing, by this the clock slave is unable to recognize, whether it's single or double speed.
So, this operational advantage is not fully there, but maybe it's sufficient to automatically switch between, e.g., 44.1 and 48 kHz.

Regarding SteadyClock FS: measurable better results, but most likely not audible.
If you really want, you can make ADI-2 Pro to clock master, I, personally, would use the UFX+ for operational reasons, even if it is limited a little, that only changes between 44.1/48 will be properly recognized.

Another thing, do you want to use GLM? I can be the case that you still have two options (I don't remember GLM details) but it could be the case, that you can also use analog connection between ADI-2 Pro and Genelec. But then you have an additional AD/DA conversion in the signal path. Maybe you win a little by the 4 ref level design / auto ref level in terms of SNR, but it's not clear, whether you lose possibly a little because of the additional AD/DA conversion.

You can connect the Genelec's digital to the ADI-2 Pro and if I remember right, even dynamic loudness would work.
On the ADI-2 Pro, I think you need to select manually “digital through mode”, manual chapter 17.5.

My personal preference is to connect active monitors analog, to use variable attenuators (if needed), to fix any potential level mismatches so that ears / equipment are not being blown if levels are accidentally at 0dB, see also: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=25399.

Try out, what works best for you.


Cabling:

    PC---------USB--------- ARC USB
     |
     | (USB3 or TB)
     |                                            [digital through mode]
     |   +------ ADAT (or AES)--->-----ADI-2 Pro FS R BE--AES OUT----AES IN--Genelec-L--AES Through-----AES IN--Genelec-R
     |   |                                                                        \------Headphones1
     |   | 
+--UFX+ (clock master)---SC-LC-------->-----+
|                                                                    |
|  LC-SC                                                         |  MADI OM4 (or OM3)
|                                                                    |
+-----Pulse16M--LC-LC---Pulse16M----<----+


@KaiS: assumed GLM will be used, do you have a recommendation whether it's better with the ADI-2 Pro, to connect analog (if it's possible) or through AES?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14