Topic: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

Hi, I have recently bought RME ADI 2 DAC FS. I have connected QNAP server-----> router----->lumin u1 mini streamer----->RME via USB cable ----> CXA 81 integrated amp via XLR cable. The question is how to use the pre amp section of RME. When I minimise the knob volume of CXA81 and increase the volume knob of RME no sound comes out. That means the pre amp section of CXA81 is still operating.

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

ntsaf1 wrote:

...CXA 81 integrated amp via XLR cable. The question is how to use the pre amp section of RME. ...the pre amp section of CXA81 is still operating.

I’ve read through the Cambridge CXA 81’s manual, and couldn’t find a hint that the XLRs (or any other input) can be configured as Power Amp Input, bypassing the preamp.


No problem so far, just find the optimum position on CXA 81’s Volume dial:

Using ADI-2 DAC as Preamp:

If you want to use ADI-2's digital volume control to set listening level, ADI-2 DAC has a clever option that increases the usable dynamic range by 18 dB: "Auto Reference Level":
“On” by factory default, reads dBr instead of straight dB when you turn ADI-2’s Volume dial.

• Have ADI-2's "Auto Reference Level" ON.
• Set ADI-2 DAC's volume control to -18 dBr.
• Play typical music and set ext. amp's volume control slightly above your normal listening level.
• Place a mark (e.g. a little triangle cut from sticky tape) to the amplifiers volume control position.
• Use ADI-2's volume control to set the final listening level.

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

What filter and EQ settings do you use with RME..thanks


KaiS wrote:
ntsaf1 wrote:

...CXA 81 integrated amp via XLR cable. The question is how to use the pre amp section of RME. ...the pre amp section of CXA81 is still operating.

I’ve read through the Cambridge CXA 81’s manual, and couldn’t find a hint that the XLRs (or any other input) can be configured as Power Amp Input, bypassing the preamp.


No problem so far, just find the optimum position on CXA 81’s Volume dial:

Using ADI-2 DAC as Preamp:

If you want to use ADI-2's digital volume control to set listening level, ADI-2 DAC has a clever option that increases the usable dynamic range by 18 dB: "Auto Reference Level":
“On” by factory default, reads dBr instead of straight dB when you turn ADI-2’s Volume dial.

• Have ADI-2's "Auto Reference Level" ON.
• Set ADI-2 DAC's volume control to -18 dBr.
• Play typical music and set ext. amp's volume control slightly above your normal listening level.
• Place a mark (e.g. a little triangle cut from sticky tape) to the amplifiers volume control position.
• Use ADI-2's volume control to set the final listening level.

4 (edited by KaiS 2022-09-03 23:39:18)

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

I EQ according to the various headphones I’m using.

I do use my own measurements, then fine-tune by ear until I’m satisfied.
I have a lot of ‘phones, they all have their individual EQ setting(s).
Often 3 or more, over the time I settle to one EQ I like most.

I kind of (manually) external-store settings on an Excel Sheet, as the 20 preset slots ADI-2 offers are too few for me.


As DAC filter I usually prefer the “Slow”.

Just lately I acquired the RAAL SR1a ribbon headphones.
With this one “SD Sharp” partly sounds better.
The SR1a is very special.

Remember: the DAC Filters only sound different for sample rates of 44.1 or 48 KHz.
With 88.2 kHz and above I can’t hear any difference.

On the other hand, listening to Tidal, I often prefer the original 44.1 version against the artificially upsampled pseudo-HiRes version.

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

Hi, thanks for your answer. Do you use DAC filter and EQ to tune your amp

KaiS wrote:

I EQ according to the various headphones I’m using.

I do use my own measurements, then fine-tune by ear until I’m satisfied.
I have a lot of ‘phones, they all have their individual EQ setting(s).
Often 3 or more, over the time I settle to one EQ I like most.

I kind of (manually) external-store settings on an Excel Sheet, as the 20 preset slots ADI-2 offers are too few for me.


As DAC filter I usually prefer the “Slow”.

Just lately I acquired the RAAL SR1a ribbon headphones.
With this one “SD Sharp” partly sounds better.
The SR1a is very special.

Remember: the DAC Filters only sound different for sample rates of 44.1 or 48 KHz.
With 88.2 kHz and above I can’t hear any difference.

On the other hand, listening to Tidal, I often prefer the original 44.1 version against the artificially upsampled pseudo-HiRes version.

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

Have you tried the option 31.12 on the manual "....level setting recommended" reference level at +7dbu, volume at 4.78 dbV. If this setting is implemented which should be the level of amp's knob volume.

KaiS wrote:
ntsaf1 wrote:

...CXA 81 integrated amp via XLR cable. The question is how to use the pre amp section of RME. ...the pre amp section of CXA81 is still operating.

I’ve read through the Cambridge CXA 81’s manual, and couldn’t find a hint that the XLRs (or any other input) can be configured as Power Amp Input, bypassing the preamp.


No problem so far, just find the optimum position on CXA 81’s Volume dial:

Using ADI-2 DAC as Preamp:

If you want to use ADI-2's digital volume control to set listening level, ADI-2 DAC has a clever option that increases the usable dynamic range by 18 dB: "Auto Reference Level":
“On” by factory default, reads dBr instead of straight dB when you turn ADI-2’s Volume dial.

• Have ADI-2's "Auto Reference Level" ON.
• Set ADI-2 DAC's volume control to -18 dBr.
• Play typical music and set ext. amp's volume control slightly above your normal listening level.
• Place a mark (e.g. a little triangle cut from sticky tape) to the amplifiers volume control position.
• Use ADI-2's volume control to set the final listening level.

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

"Have you tried the option 31.12 on the manual "....level setting recommended" reference level at +7dbu, volume at 4.78 dbV. If this setting is implemented which should be the level of amp's knob volume."

I have a similar setup with a Hegel amp. I just threw every setting at it and reached the amps protection circuitry. Thats a quick off/on fix for the amp to reset the relays. You would go a bit down from there.

To your question I set my integrated amp to 60, but that number wouldnt be relevant to anyone except someone with an exact similar setup. With pro gear you could calculate this, but with home-fi its obviously harder to tell what the volumereading is actually referenced to. So dont overload and keep volumes whitin your aquired taste and hearing

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

8 (edited by KaiS 2022-09-05 13:22:25)

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

ntsaf1 wrote:

Have you tried the option 31.12 on the manual "....level setting recommended" reference level at +7dbu, volume at 4.78 dbV. If this setting is implemented which should be the level of amp's knob volume.

You could use this or another fixed level too, using your amp’s volume control.
This is the other way round than your original idea.

There’s no certain level that sounds “better” than the others.
It’s just about not to overdrive your amp’s input stage, and make good use of your amp’s volume dial range.

Look here for a setup guide for both options - (ADI-2 as fixed level DAC or as preamp), that takes these into account, without any technical knowledge required:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 21#p161721


ntsaf1 wrote:

Hi, thanks for your answer. Do you use DAC filter and EQ to tune your amp?

As mentioned I use EQ and DA Filter settings to tune certain headphones, e.g. add more bass.

Some ‘phones are run out of ADI-2, some have their dedicated external amps, but for EQ this fact doesn’t matter.
All my amps (except the tube ones) have a neutral sound characteristic.
The tube amps do things to the sound different from EQ, but even that is subtle, not night and day difference to a solid state amp.

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

Hi, regarding the mentioned set up you set the desired volume using the amp's knob. Have you tried using the auto refer level, setting the volume -18db and manually set the preferred listening level using the amp's knob but the volume control is implemented via the digital knob of RME.

Happy_amateur wrote:

"Have you tried the option 31.12 on the manual "....level setting recommended" reference level at +7dbu, volume at 4.78 dbV. If this setting is implemented which should be the level of amp's knob volume."

I have a similar setup with a Hegel amp. I just threw every setting at it and reached the amps protection circuitry. Thats a quick off/on fix for the amp to reset the relays. You would go a bit down from there.

To your question I set my integrated amp to 60, but that number wouldnt be relevant to anyone except someone with an exact similar setup. With pro gear you could calculate this, but with home-fi its obviously harder to tell what the volumereading is actually referenced to. So dont overload and keep volumes whitin your aquired taste and hearing

10 (edited by KaiS 2022-09-05 18:18:48)

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

ntsaf1 wrote:

Hi, regarding the mentioned set up you set the desired volume using the amp's knob. Have you tried using the auto refer level, setting the volume -18db and manually set the preferred listening level using the amp's knob but the volume control is implemented via the digital knob of RME.

Not quite clear what you’re heading for.

My link from above contains both of the possible “cases”.
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 21#p161721

Personally I do use ADI-2’s Volume Control most of the time, with a lot of different amps, which I marked their preferred volume dial settings with a pencil.

And yes, “Auto Reference Level” is the key then for best signal quality.
Keep in mind, with Auto Reference Level “ON” Volume is shown in dBr instead of straight dB.

The “r” means referenced to the highest possible level, including the Reference Level switching.

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

Not exactly at -18 db no, but I have done a similar setup yes. You should absolutely listen to KaiS advice. What he is refering to is where Auto reference level will work at optimal in the mentioned setup. He knows all this to his finger tips.

My advice would be to try every way to set this. You learn the ins and outs, and you will find what suits you best. You shouldnt be in a hurry to put this in a fixed setup.

Personally I prefer to go with a locked volume + a suitable reference level for speakers. Set to 3.76v I think for XLR out, example in the manual. For headphones I use Auto reference level, constantly. In practical I dont do much level change with speakers. I often use dim or mute if I need to put my ears elsewhere. With locked volume the unit will become a source like a CD player, and you have a constant output with top SNR. I have PRO so i ran an optical cable to my amp, but Im not impressed by the inbuilt Hegel dac(one of the reasons I got an external dac in the first place)just an experiment.

Not so much discussion here these days, but I would encourage you to make the manual your bedtime reading. This forum thread, you should start at page one and just skim through it all. Use the search function. There are so many brilliant minds here and every question has probably been answered already, twice atleast. ASR is usefull too. Im just a novice like you. I understand math, but don really have the patience or precision for it. So for those who are deep into the numbers here there is probably a 100% correct way to do this, and you should listen to them, but you shouldn be afraid to fool around with it no. Just start at low levels.

I have this setup now, but im looking to buy a poweramp or powered monitors. For that I will use Auto reference level and a fixed attenuator attached to cables to put it in sweetspot for max SNR. I like Cambridge products, I think they are one of the good guys, but I consider a Parasound a23. The new ADI 2/4 is also around the corner, and sadly I dont have a money printing press.

Right now im just hanging around for the ADI-2/4 PRO se manual to release.

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

Thank you KaiS for the info.

Considering it is the first time using EQ is there a more explanatory guide to use manual, temp and 20 stored presets. The presets are EQ fixed from factory default? After I had tuned the band 1-5 and filters I chose MANUAL and save it as EQ Preset 1 but I could not save a second EQ on EQ Preset 2.





KaiS wrote:
ntsaf1 wrote:

Hi, regarding the mentioned set up you set the desired volume using the amp's knob. Have you tried using the auto refer level, setting the volume -18db and manually set the preferred listening level using the amp's knob but the volume control is implemented via the digital knob of RME.

Not quite clear what you’re heading for.

My link from above contains both of the possible “cases”.
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 21#p161721

Personally I do use ADI-2’s Volume Control most of the time, with a lot of different amps, which I marked their preferred volume dial settings with a pencil.

And yes, “Auto Reference Level” is the key then for best signal quality.
Keep in mind, with Auto Reference Level “ON” Volume is shown in dBr instead of straight dB.

The “r” means referenced to the highest possible level, including the Reference Level switching.

13

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

After editing an EQ the source name in the save menu (Preset Select) is automatic and should not be changed. The only thing one changes is at the bottom on Save to push, here you select the Preset slot the EQ should be saved to.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

14 (edited by KaiS 2022-09-06 08:38:44)

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

ntsaf1 wrote:

Thank you KaiS for the info.

Considering it is the first time using EQ is there a more explanatory guide to use manual, temp and 20 stored presets.

The 20 preset slots are to store your own settings.

On my ADI-2 they were empty at factory default.
No “Pop”, “Rock”, “Jazz”-presets or such pre-defined ones, like some other devices have.
These never made the slightest sense for me anyway, in my experience those never fit.

EQ needs to be tailored to your personal situation.

Start with simple Bass- / Treble EQ, set it to your liking.

For headphones there are comprehensive lists that can give a start, if your model is in:
https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wi … f_presets/
https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq … er/results


Being new to ADI-2 AND EQ one has to become familiar with ADI-2 usage, and what can be done with EQ.

Manual page 24, 25 is worth reading.

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

So, first you create the name of EQ in order to save the settings using TEMP.
Thanks for helping


MC wrote:

After editing an EQ the source name in the save menu (Preset Select) is automatic and should not be changed. The only thing one changes is at the bottom on Save to push, here you select the Preset slot the EQ should be saved to.

16 (edited by Happy_amateur 2022-09-06 10:08:15)

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

I named the PEQ curve presets after my respective headphones. Very sleek wink

A tip: Go to the afforementioned link AUTOEQ in KaiS post. Find your headphone in the list.

Auteq operates with 10 bands, but its laid out so you can use 5 of them easy.

In I/O menu choose Phones / Parametric EQ

Dial in the numbers numerically. If numbers are out of range for ADI-2 DAC, just choose the nearest.

Save and name.

Put on some music and go to EQ menu, find your curve and adjust graphically(and sonically ofcourse) for taste.

When you get the feel for the encoders this is done in a minute or two.

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

17 (edited by KaiS 2022-09-06 08:53:48)

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

ntsaf1 wrote:

So, first you create the name of EQ in order to save the settings using TEMP.
Thanks for helping


MC wrote:

After editing an EQ the source name in the save menu (Preset Select) is automatic and should not be changed. The only thing one changes is at the bottom on Save to push, here you select the Preset slot the EQ should be saved to.

Not necessarily, you can just save the EQ to any slot, the preset slot’s name stays like it was.
To change the slot’s name, no extra “save” is needed.

E.g.:
• You have created an EQ setting, save it to “empty“ slot 3.
• Then name slot 3 “XYZ Phone”.
• Now you change the setting a bit, the changed setting automatically goes to “Temp”.
• To keep your changes, save again to slot 3 - the slot’s name stays XYZ Phone.

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

Ntsaf1: Check out this graph

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/foru … png.63806/

This will show you how Autoreflevel works its way maximizing SNR. It also shows why -18dbr is the magic number for your setup. (Sinad is somewhat akin to SNR. Its SNR + distortion. Not much distortion in DAC so SNR).

An interesting compare is Autoref OFF, at -18db difference in SNR is 10db from Autoref ON. Sinad tops out at -0dbr here with 116 - 117db SNR. So if this gives meaning to you, happy to oblige!

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

As an alternative, look at the Excel screenshot in my blog article https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ent … ses-en-de/

https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/attachment/2915-overview-adi-2-dac-pro-dbu-auto-reflevel-ranges-snr-v002-jpg/

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

Very elaborate Ramses! Did you measure this or is it sourced from RME.?

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

21 (edited by ramses 2022-09-06 23:09:13)

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

Happy_amateur wrote:

Very elaborate Ramses! Did you measure this or is it sourced from RME.?

The formulas for the left-hand calculations—dBu to dBV and V (eff)—are from Sengpiel.
The rest are simply the dBu levels of the different supported reference levels according to information in the manuals.

Goes relatively quickly if you know to copy/paste formulas in Excel.
For the different reference levels, you get the dBu value from the manual and then decrease SNR like dBu in steps of 0.5dB.

If you perform this one time on your own, you get a good feeling how the values are related to each other.

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

Thanks for the info. Although EQ for line out depends totally on your own preferences have you tried to set it using a MIC from the listening position.

Happy_amateur wrote:

Ntsaf1: Check out this graph

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/foru … png.63806/

This will show you how Autoreflevel works its way maximizing SNR. It also shows why -18dbr is the magic number for your setup. (Sinad is somewhat akin to SNR. Its SNR + distortion. Not much distortion in DAC so SNR).

An interesting compare is Autoref OFF, at -18db difference in SNR is 10db from Autoref ON. Sinad tops out at -0dbr here with 116 - 117db SNR. So if this gives meaning to you, happy to oblige!

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

Thanks for the info

ramses wrote:
Happy_amateur wrote:

Very elaborate Ramses! Did you measure this or is it sourced from RME.?

The formulas for the left-hand calculations—dBu to dBV and V (eff)—are from Sengpiel.
The rest are simply the dBu levels of the different supported reference levels according to information in the manuals.

Goes relatively quickly if you know to copy/paste formulas in Excel.
For the different reference levels, you get the dBu value from the manual and then decrease SNR like dBu in steps of 0.5dB.

If you perform this one time on your own, you get a good feeling how the values are related to each other.

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

ramses wrote:
Happy_amateur wrote:

Very elaborate Ramses! Did you measure this or is it sourced from RME.?

The formulas for the left-hand calculations—dBu to dBV and V (eff)—are from Sengpiel.
The rest are simply the dBu levels of the different supported reference levels according to information in the manuals.

Goes relatively quickly if you know to copy/paste formulas in Excel.
For the different reference levels, you get the dBu value from the manual and then decrease SNR like dBu in steps of 0.5dB.

If you perform this one time on your own, you get a good feeling how the values are related to each other.

Impressive work. Im gonna dig into this!

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

25 (edited by ramses 2022-09-06 23:43:45)

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

[If you perform this one time on your own, you get a good feeling how the values are related to each other.]

… And how four different reference level design and auto ref-level works, to optimize SNR.

After you finish the Excel add Bass +1 … Then watch auto ref level calculating and that switching to next ref level happens +1dB earlier or later (depending on whether you go up or down in volume level).

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro

26 (edited by KaiS 2022-09-07 17:53:04)

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

ntsaf1 wrote:

Thanks for the info. Although EQ for line out depends totally on your own preferences have you tried to set it using a MIC from the listening position.

Yes, of course, this is the regular way to go, with headphones and speakers.

I always suggest AudioTools for iDevices:
https://apps.apple.com/de/app/audiotools/id325307477

It uses the internal mic with predefined calibration, resulting in a precise complete measurement system just in a Smartphone.

The basic version is free.

It’s a valuable help setting up speakers, subs and EQ.

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

ramses wrote:

[If you perform this one time on your own, you get a good feeling how the values are related to each other.]

… And how four different reference level design and auto ref-level works, to optimize SNR.

After you finish the Excel add Bass +1 … Then watch auto ref level calculating and that switching to next ref level happens +1dB earlier or later (depending on whether you go up or down in volume level).

So thats what this is. I actually noted an offset to the given reference values and wondered what that was. I never turned off DSP before the test.

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

That's the great thing about Auto Ref level, it considers EQ settings (B/T, PEQ) and dynamic loudness to select the optimal reference level based on the resulting output level.
I don't think many people realize how well this works and what a great feature it is.

BR Ramses
UFX+, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1650v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub12Pro

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

Hi, the latest measurements of AMIRM concerning CXA81 power amp XLR In shows SINAD 85db that means it will never catch the capabilities of RME operating at AUTO REF. A power amp option like Parasound a23 will exploit at its best RME and Monitor Audio silver 500 floor standing speakers.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/foru … e-2.34724/


Happy_amateur wrote:

Not exactly at -18 db no, but I have done a similar setup yes. You should absolutely listen to KaiS advice. What he is refering to is where Auto reference level will work at optimal in the mentioned setup. He knows all this to his finger tips.

My advice would be to try every way to set this. You learn the ins and outs, and you will find what suits you best. You shouldnt be in a hurry to put this in a fixed setup.

Personally I prefer to go with a locked volume + a suitable reference level for speakers. Set to 3.76v I think for XLR out, example in the manual. For headphones I use Auto reference level, constantly. In practical I dont do much level change with speakers. I often use dim or mute if I need to put my ears elsewhere. With locked volume the unit will become a source like a CD player, and you have a constant output with top SNR. I have PRO so i ran an optical cable to my amp, but Im not impressed by the inbuilt Hegel dac(one of the reasons I got an external dac in the first place)just an experiment.

Not so much discussion here these days, but I would encourage you to make the manual your bedtime reading. This forum thread, you should start at page one and just skim through it all. Use the search function. There are so many brilliant minds here and every question has probably been answered already, twice atleast. ASR is usefull too. Im just a novice like you. I understand math, but don really have the patience or precision for it. So for those who are deep into the numbers here there is probably a 100% correct way to do this, and you should listen to them, but you shouldn be afraid to fool around with it no. Just start at low levels.

I have this setup now, but im looking to buy a poweramp or powered monitors. For that I will use Auto reference level and a fixed attenuator attached to cables to put it in sweetspot for max SNR. I like Cambridge products, I think they are one of the good guys, but I consider a Parasound a23. The new ADI 2/4 is also around the corner, and sadly I dont have a money printing press.

Right now im just hanging around for the ADI-2/4 PRO se manual to release.

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

ntsaf1 wrote:

Hi, the latest measurements of AMIRM concerning CXA81 power amp XLR In shows SINAD 85db that means it will never catch the capabilities of RME operating at AUTO REF. A power amp option like Parasound a23 will exploit at its best RME and Monitor Audio silver 500 floor standing speakers.

If you don’t hear noise there is no noise problem.


A vinyl disc player has a SNR of 60 dBA and THD of several % at best!
Does it sound unbearable bad or noisy?

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

ramses wrote:

That's the great thing about Auto Ref level, it considers EQ settings (B/T, PEQ) and dynamic loudness to select the optimal reference level based on the resulting output level.
I don't think many people realize how well this works and what a great feature it is.

I sure know to apreciate it, while Im still in a process to understand it. I think I read something about this so I had a sense even though not nailed down.
Do you know of similar SNR vs output charts or tables for the phones autoreference modes. Or at least would it be safe to say that SNR max out right before the switch to Hi-power.?

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

Happy_amateur wrote:

Do you know of similar SNR vs output charts or tables for the phones autoreference modes. Or at least would it be safe to say that SNR max out right before the switch to Hi-power.?

Yes, the gain step to HiPower is 15 dB.

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

What am I saying is that although Auto Ref is regarded a great tool it will never go beyond 85 SNR due to amp limitations.

KaiS wrote:
ntsaf1 wrote:

Hi, the latest measurements of AMIRM concerning CXA81 power amp XLR In shows SINAD 85db that means it will never catch the capabilities of RME operating at AUTO REF. A power amp option like Parasound a23 will exploit at its best RME and Monitor Audio silver 500 floor standing speakers.

If you don’t hear noise there is no noise problem.


A vinyl disc player has a SNR of 60 dBA and THD of several % at best!
Does it sound unbearable bad or noisy?

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

KaiS wrote:
Happy_amateur wrote:

Do you know of similar SNR vs output charts or tables for the phones autoreference modes. Or at least would it be safe to say that SNR max out right before the switch to Hi-power.?

Yes, the gain step to HiPower is 15 dB.

Thnx!

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

35 (edited by ntsaf1 2022-09-08 00:28:15)

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

KaiS,
e.g. First select B1, G 3.5, then I chose from pre select 1 lin, then name EQ preset 1 and save. When I go back on the graph menu it results a flat line.
Thanks for helping

KaiS wrote:
ntsaf1 wrote:

So, first you create the name of EQ in order to save the settings using TEMP.
Thanks for helping


MC wrote:

After editing an EQ the source name in the save menu (Preset Select) is automatic and should not be changed. The only thing one changes is at the bottom on Save to push, here you select the Preset slot the EQ should be saved to.

Not necessarily, you can just save the EQ to any slot, the preset slot’s name stays like it was.
To change the slot’s name, no extra “save” is needed.

E.g.:
• You have created an EQ setting, save it to “empty“ slot 3.
• Then name slot 3 “XYZ Phone”.
• Now you change the setting a bit, the changed setting automatically goes to “Temp”.
• To keep your changes, save again to slot 3 - the slot’s name stays XYZ Phone.

36 (edited by KaiS 2022-09-08 01:01:25)

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

ntsaf1 wrote:
KaiS wrote:
ntsaf1 wrote:

So, first you create the name of EQ in order to save the settings using TEMP.
Thanks for helping

Not necessarily, you can just save the EQ to any slot, the preset slot’s name stays like it was.
To change the slot’s name, no extra “save” is needed.

E.g.:
• You have created an EQ setting, save it to “empty“ slot 3.
• Then name slot 3 “XYZ Phone”.
• Now you change the setting a bit, the changed setting automatically goes to “Temp”.
• To keep your changes, save again to slot 3 - the slot’s name stays XYZ Phone.

KaiS,
e.g. First select B1, G 3.5, then I chose from pre select 1 lin, then name EQ preset 1 and save. When I go back on the graph menu it results a flat line.
Thanks for helping

For the moment, forget about the naming.

Exact steps to save:
• Set an EQ,
• Press “EQ” button.
• Go down to the menu entry “Save to (push 1s)”, ignore the  “Name” entry
(4 pushes on Encoder2 in total!),
• turn Encoder2 to select a preset slot, e.g “1”:

Now top line says: “Preset Select Temp
2nd line says “Name EQ Preset 1
Active line says “ Save to (push 1s)

• Push and hold Encoder2 for >1s to save.

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

First press EQ button to set the EQ then press again the EQ enter menu then preset select Manual ?

KaiS wrote:
ntsaf1 wrote:
KaiS wrote:

Not necessarily, you can just save the EQ to any slot, the preset slot’s name stays like it was.
To change the slot’s name, no extra “save” is needed.

E.g.:
• You have created an EQ setting, save it to “empty“ slot 3.
• Then name slot 3 “XYZ Phone”.
• Now you change the setting a bit, the changed setting automatically goes to “Temp”.
• To keep your changes, save again to slot 3 - the slot’s name stays XYZ Phone.

KaiS,
e.g. First select B1, G 3.5, then I chose from pre select 1 lin, then name EQ preset 1 and save. When I go back on the graph menu it results a flat line.
Thanks for helping

For the moment, forget about the naming.

Exact steps to save:
• Set an EQ,
• Press “EQ” button.
• Go down to the menu entry “Save to (push 1s)”, ignore the  “Name” entry
(4 pushes on Encoder2 in total!),
• turn Encoder2 to select a preset slot, e.g “1”:

Now top line says: “Preset Select Temp
2nd line says “Name EQ Preset 1
Active line says “ Save to (push 1s)

• Push and hold Encoder2 for >1s to save.

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

First you press save and then you turn the encoder2 to your preferred slot ?

ntsaf1 wrote:

First press EQ button to set the EQ then press again the EQ enter menu then preset select Manual ?

KaiS wrote:
ntsaf1 wrote:

KaiS,
e.g. First select B1, G 3.5, then I chose from pre select 1 lin, then name EQ preset 1 and save. When I go back on the graph menu it results a flat line.
Thanks for helping

For the moment, forget about the naming.

Exact steps to save:
• Set an EQ,
• Press “EQ” button.
• Go down to the menu entry “Save to (push 1s)”, ignore the  “Name” entry
(4 pushes on Encoder2 in total!),
• turn Encoder2 to select a preset slot, e.g “1”:

Now top line says: “Preset Select Temp
2nd line says “Name EQ Preset 1
Active line says “ Save to (push 1s)

• Push and hold Encoder2 for >1s to save.

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

The other way round.

ntsaf1 wrote:

First you press save and then you turn the encoder2 to your preferred slot ?

ntsaf1 wrote:

First press EQ button to set the EQ then press again the EQ enter menu then preset select Manual ?

KaiS wrote:

For the moment, forget about the naming.

Exact steps to save:
• Set an EQ,
• Press “EQ” button.
• Go down to the menu entry “Save to (push 1s)”, ignore the  “Name” entry
(4 pushes on Encoder2 in total!),
• turn Encoder2 to select a preset slot, e.g “1”:

Now top line says: “Preset Select Temp
2nd line says “Name EQ Preset 1
Active line says “ Save to (push 1s)

• Push and hold Encoder2 for >1s to save.

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

Now Im confused big_smile

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

In order to save a second set of EQ I follow the steps you mentioned just turning the encoder 2 to next selected slot e.g. 2. If I want to load the 1 and 2 settings just turning the encoder 2 left on the same menu ?

KaiS wrote:

The other way round.

ntsaf1 wrote:

First you press save and then you turn the encoder2 to your preferred slot ?

ntsaf1 wrote:

First press EQ button to set the EQ then press again the EQ enter menu then preset select Manual ?

42 (edited by KaiS 2022-09-08 17:57:02)

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

It’s true, this can be a bit confusing for a new owner of ADI-2.

It’s a bit like with Apple stuff:
Stop thinking complicated, just do it intuitively.
It’s all layed out in the most simplistic way, which not exactly means it’s all simple.


Loading an EQ Preset is done:

• from the EQ menu under “Preset Select”, with no confirmation / “Encoder Press” needed.

• or, from the Main Screen:
1. Press EQ once,
2. Press Encoder 2 until:
“Preset Select: Temp / Manual” or
“Slot Number: EQ Name” (e.g. “1: EQ XYZ”) appears,
3. Then turn Encoder 2, the selected Preset is, again, loaded directly.




ntsaf1 wrote:

In order to save a second set of EQ I follow the steps you mentioned just turning the encoder 2 to next selected slot e.g. 2. If I want to load the 1 and 2 settings just turning the encoder 2 left on the same menu ?

KaiS wrote:

The other way round.

ntsaf1 wrote:

First you press save and then you turn the encoder2 to your preferred slot ?

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

KaiS, I follow your instructions on your previous message and I save each EQ set by pushing >1s (on the IPS screen actually is written push 1s) until it appears DONE. I had been clicked the encoder 2 for =1s.

I own an Android phone Samsung S8. Do you think I can customised EQ settings downloading an Android app and using mobile internal MIC or you think it could be better using an external MIC with a related software.

Thanks a lot for your patient


KaiS wrote:

It’s true, this can be a bit confusing for a new owner of ADI-2.

It’s a bit like with Apple stuff:
Stop thinking complicated, just do it intuitively.
It’s all layed out in the most simplistic way, which not exactly means it’s all simple.


Loading an EQ Preset is done:

• from the EQ menu under “Preset Select”, with no confirmation / “Encoder Press” needed.

• or, from the Main Screen:
1. Press EQ once,
2. Press Encoder 2 until:
“Preset Select: Temp / Manual” or
“Slot Number: EQ Name” (e.g. “1: EQ XYZ”) appears,
3. Then turn Encoder 2, the selected Preset is, again, loaded directly.




ntsaf1 wrote:

In order to save a second set of EQ I follow the steps you mentioned just turning the encoder 2 to next selected slot e.g. 2. If I want to load the 1 and 2 settings just turning the encoder 2 left on the same menu ?

KaiS wrote:

The other way round.

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

Sorry, but I have no idea about what’s possible on Android.

AudioTools for iDevice is my go to measurement software.
I used ARTA for PC and dedicated Bruel&Kjaer hardware too, but the iDevice setup is much faster.

ntsaf1 wrote:

KaiS, I follow your instructions on your previous message and I save each EQ set by pushing >1s (on the IPS screen actually is written push 1s) until it appears DONE. I had been clicked the encoder 2 for =1s.

I own an Android phone Samsung S8. Do you think I can customised EQ settings downloading an Android app and using mobile internal MIC or you think it could be better using an external MIC with a related software.

Thanks a lot for your patient


KaiS wrote:

It’s true, this can be a bit confusing for a new owner of ADI-2.

It’s a bit like with Apple stuff:
Stop thinking complicated, just do it intuitively.
It’s all layed out in the most simplistic way, which not exactly means it’s all simple.


Loading an EQ Preset is done:

• from the EQ menu under “Preset Select”, with no confirmation / “Encoder Press” needed.

• or, from the Main Screen:
1. Press EQ once,
2. Press Encoder 2 until:
“Preset Select: Temp / Manual” or
“Slot Number: EQ Name” (e.g. “1: EQ XYZ”) appears,
3. Then turn Encoder 2, the selected Preset is, again, loaded directly.




ntsaf1 wrote:

In order to save a second set of EQ I follow the steps you mentioned just turning the encoder 2 to next selected slot e.g. 2. If I want to load the 1 and 2 settings just turning the encoder 2 left on the same menu ?

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

Hi, do you use any Android app for measurements of your speakers.
thanks


Happy_amateur wrote:

I named the PEQ curve presets after my respective headphones. Very sleek wink

A tip: Go to the afforementioned link AUTOEQ in KaiS post. Find your headphone in the list.

Auteq operates with 10 bands, but its laid out so you can use 5 of them easy.

In I/O menu choose Phones / Parametric EQ

Dial in the numbers numerically. If numbers are out of range for ADI-2 DAC, just choose the nearest.

Save and name.

Put on some music and go to EQ menu, find your curve and adjust graphically(and sonically ofcourse) for taste.

When you get the feel for the encoders this is done in a minute or two.

46 (edited by Happy_amateur 2022-09-08 21:27:50)

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

Sorry I dont. Room EQ is just by ears. I think maybe apple devices is just so much better at this, popular with the pro audio crowd. So developers prefer it too. You can always check out Play store for audio tools.

If I where to go forward with this myself I woud get a home measurment mic/software package and take it from there.

If you need SPL meters and such I would just look around the net. Just looking at the Bruel&Kjaer stuff KaiS mentioned I can tell it costs an arm and a leg. Im sure you can get more priceworthy stuff more suitable for home use. I would check out the major pro audio supplier in germany and there is some similar stores over the pond.

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

Happy_amateur wrote:

... I think maybe apple devices is just so much better at this, popular with the pro audio crowd. So developers prefer it too. ...
If I where to go forward with this myself I woud get a home measurment mic/software package and take it from there.
....

A used iPhone goes for a few bucks.

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

"A used iPhone goes for a few bucks".

Lol. Thats a point I guess 8-) Im an android man myself. Good news for topic starter. Iphone is the way to go!

ADI-2 DAC, ADI-2 PRO, DigifaceUSB, UCXII, ARC, HEGEL.h80, KEF.ls50, HD650, ie400pro _,.\''/.,_

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

lol,

Happy_amateur wrote:

"A used iPhone goes for a few bucks".

Lol. Thats a point I guess 8-) Im an android man myself. Good news for topic starter. Iphone is the way to go!

Re: ADI 2 DAC FS as pre amp

Room correction is mandatory for my listening room-kitchen & living room. I do not like diffusion panels etc.

thanks

Happy_amateur wrote:

Sorry I dont. Room EQ is just by ears. I think maybe apple devices is just so much better at this, popular with the pro audio crowd. So developers prefer it too. You can always check out Play store for audio tools.

If I where to go forward with this myself I woud get a home measurment mic/software package and take it from there.

If you need SPL meters and such I would just look around the net. Just looking at the Bruel&Kjaer stuff KaiS mentioned I can tell it costs an arm and a leg. Im sure you can get more priceworthy stuff more suitable for home use. I would check out the major pro audio supplier in germany and there is some similar stores over the pond.