• Registered: 2020-08-14
  • Posts: 109

Topic: Myths(?) about TS vs TRS cable for synths.. why TRS cable work fine?

Hello,
I posted about this question on the internet and got answers and.. everyone recommended to use TS (unbalanced cable) cable for my synths: Prophet 08m, Minitaur, TX7..

Theoratically that would be correct..
But somehow, I bought TRS - XLR cable and, tried with it and, surprisingly the signal is very clean and I have not noticed any huge hiss or noise level...



Is it because my UFX ii combo jack is smart enough to take in TRS or TS cable from unbalanced cable and somehow A/D it good...?

It sounds totally almost as the same as unbalanced cable... from my other home studio...


What's it all about TS vs TRS cable myths(?) and is it just totally fine for my case....?!


Why do I get clean normal signal even with TRS cable...?

2 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2022-10-16 12:20:55)

  • ramses
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Re: Myths(?) about TS vs TRS cable for synths.. why TRS cable work fine?

Hi,

I put some information together for you and hope it clarifies the topic for you.

For unbalanced connections, you should better not use balanced cables with TRS plugs, check your UFX II manual, ch 19.1, 20.1:
https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/fface_ufx2_d.pdf
https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/fface_ufx2_e.pdf

"When using unbalanced cables with TRS jacks: be sure to connect the 'ring' contact of the TRS jack to ground. Otherwise noise may occur, caused by the unconnected negative input of the balanced input."

I wouldn't experiment just because it seems to work, and you don't experience any interference. It doesn't make any sense to think that a balanced cable could contribute to better quality in any way.

If your connected device doesn't support a balanced connection, then it doesn't have the additional circuitry needed to receive and filter out the interference signal from the difference in the “wanted” audio signal. And that is the main advantage of a balanced connection and that, combined with the higher signal level, you can use longer cables in the studio and on stage without any problems.

Analog Port – unbalanced connection

An unbalanced connection is made via a cable with 2 wires: signal carrying conductor and shield. The connectors are typically TS plugs (tip, sleeve). When recording microphone signals or using long cables, unbalanced transmission is highly susceptible to external interference. Here, only lower levels are used, consumer level = -10 dBV (which is only 0,3Veff).

Analog Port – balanced connection

In the professional environment of a recording studio or on a stage, balanced transmission is preferred because it allows interference-free transmission of the useful signals even over long distances. The plugs are XLR or TRS plugs (TRS=Tip, Ring, Sleeve). Here, higher studio levels are used.
In addition to ground and the wanted signal (A), there is another wire that also carries the wanted signal, but in inverted polarity (B). When summing the signals A+B, the polarity reversal completely cancels the useful signal, leaving the interfering signal. The interfering signal can then be removed via an electronic circuit so that only the useful signal remains. This requires appropriate electronics in the unit, which may or may not be present. You have to look in the manual of the connected unit.

The preferred connection type in the studio is definitely a balanced connection, BUT ONLY IF the connected devices support it.

Other interesting articles around that topic

Why do my keyboards sound thin and weedy with some preamps but not others?
https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advi … not-others

Q. Is there a better balanced-to-unbalanced cabling solution?
https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advi … g-solution

Design of High-Performance Balanced Audio Interfaces, Bill Whitlock – Jensen Transformers, Inc.  (Edited By Rod Elliott)
Interesting, but technical: https://sound-au.com/articles/balanced-2.htm

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2020-08-14
  • Posts: 109

Re: Myths(?) about TS vs TRS cable for synths.. why TRS cable work fine?

ramses wrote:

Hi,

I put some information together for you and hope it clarifies the topic for you.

For unbalanced connections, you should better not use balanced cables with TRS plugs, check your UFX II manual, ch 19.1, 20.1:
https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/fface_ufx2_d.pdf
https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/fface_ufx2_e.pdf

"When using unbalanced cables with TRS jacks: be sure to connect the 'ring' contact of the TRS jack to ground. Otherwise noise may occur, caused by the unconnected negative input of the balanced input."

I wouldn't experiment just because it seems to work, and you don't experience any interference. It doesn't make any sense to think that a balanced cable could contribute to better quality in any way.

If your connected device doesn't support a balanced connection, then it doesn't have the additional circuitry needed to receive and filter out the interference signal from the difference in the “wanted” audio signal. And that is the main advantage of a balanced connection and that, combined with the higher signal level, you can use longer cables in the studio and on stage without any problems.

Analog Port – unbalanced connection

An unbalanced connection is made via a cable with 2 wires: signal carrying conductor and shield. The connectors are typically TS plugs (tip, sleeve). When recording microphone signals or using long cables, unbalanced transmission is highly susceptible to external interference. Here, only lower levels are used, consumer level = -10 dBV (which is only 0,3Veff).

Analog Port – balanced connection

In the professional environment of a recording studio or on a stage, balanced transmission is preferred because it allows interference-free transmission of the useful signals even over long distances. The plugs are XLR or TRS plugs (TRS=Tip, Ring, Sleeve). Here, higher studio levels are used.
In addition to ground and the wanted signal (A), there is another wire that also carries the wanted signal, but in inverted polarity (B). When summing the signals A+B, the polarity reversal completely cancels the useful signal, leaving the interfering signal. The interfering signal can then be removed via an electronic circuit so that only the useful signal remains. This requires appropriate electronics in the unit, which may or may not be present. You have to look in the manual of the connected unit.

The preferred connection type in the studio is definitely a balanced connection, BUT ONLY IF the connected devices support it.

Other interesting articles around that topic

Why do my keyboards sound thin and weedy with some preamps but not others?
https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advi … not-others

Q. Is there a better balanced-to-unbalanced cabling solution?
https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advi … g-solution

Design of High-Performance Balanced Audio Interfaces, Bill Whitlock – Jensen Transformers, Inc.  (Edited By Rod Elliott)
Interesting, but technical: https://sound-au.com/articles/balanced-2.htm

Yes, so I was going to swap my cables to TS, but surprisingly I hear zero noise/hiss... and yes theoratically that is totally correct right? But I just wonder.. this is too clean to be true... noise floor is also very very low.. just too clean.

I shall get one unbalanced cable and compare in the future! But for now, I have zero compain about the signal as long as it does not damage my UFX ii combo jack input.

Though I totally understand if synths do not support balanced output, always use unbalanced cable for the optimal signal smile