• Kubrak
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Re: Standalone digiface usb, please

Yes, one cannot use Digiface standalone without "initializing" it using PC with TotalMix after fresh power-up.

If Babyface may work in standalone mode, Digiface also, IMHO, technically could. But of course as there are absolutely no controls, the only meaningfull way would be to route individual digital inputs to individual digital outputs.

IMHO, RME could easily change it in the firmware to work so, but I doubt they will do it, to avoid possible signal feedback. I guess most people connect devices to DF in such a way that corresponding ADAT input and output connections go to the same equipment. And if that equipment would increase the volume of signal slightest way, there would be positive signal feedback, which is highly udesirable....

Even thought, I would like DF have had inputs routed to outputs on power up, so that it would be usable standalone (in my use case), it is most probably wise ingeneering decision not to do so. :-(

Let's hope that next version of DF will have at least limited ability of standalone operation and it remember the state before powering off. Or even better one could save up to six snapshots to future version of DF and also plug in ARC USB to get at least limited controll of the device.

  • vinark
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Re: Standalone digiface usb, please

Another question, if you can find that out, does it initialize when you only add power without running PC.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

53 Reply by oli77sch (edited by oli77sch 2023-08-23 10:50:47)

  • Registered: 2016-06-14
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Re: Standalone digiface usb, please

Kubrak wrote:

…
If Babyface may work in standalone mode, Digiface also, IMHO, technically could. But of course as there are absolutely no controls, the only meaningfull way would be to route individual digital inputs to individual digital outputs.

IMHO, RME could easily change it in the firmware to work so, but I doubt they will do it, to avoid possible signal feedback.

No, it’s simply not possible! Two facts:
1: Matthias Carstens from RME already stated clearly, it’s the hardware of the Digiface USB which is not able to add the standalone functionality over a firmware update. See his post above (Nr 41):
And it will not come as firmware update because the hardware simply can not do it.

2: It’s not really comparable to the Babyface (pro (FS)) models. They are totally different to the Digiface pro. The Babyface models have knobs and a wheel to control it without a computer, the Digiface hasn’t. They also have an option to power it over a DC adapter, the Digiface hasn’t. The standalone functionality makes lots of sense, as AD/DA converter - mic preamp - headphone amp.

FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2
  • ramses
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Re: Standalone digiface usb, please

MC wrote:

It should be more than obvious that the DF USB has not been designed to be used in stand-alone mode. No power socket, no such chapter in the manual, no such mode ever mentioned anywhere. And it will not come as firmware update because the hardware simply can not do it.

Only meant as a question

Not sure, what the FPGA has for requirements or allows in terms of memory when power is off to save the last state of operation.

But would it be possible to remember at least the last state of ports and the routing and levels? For that you wouldn't need any knobs or dials like on the BBF.

One could perhaps think of only powering via USB port even if there is no plug for a PSU, or am I wrong that something like this would not be possible?

Only curious whether there is perhaps a chance to get something like "limited" stand alone mode to get the last config.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Kubrak
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Re: Standalone digiface usb, please

DF is able to work standalone. I have checked that. One may power it using powered USB hub, for example. Or USB charger, or USB powerbank, ...

The only "problem" is, that one has to load snapshot needed using PC after power-up of DF. Since than, it runs standalone just fine.  Till power-off no need for computer. (Of course one cannot change anything in DF setting in the meantime as there are no buttons/knobs.)

I do not know internals of DF, so it may be that its flash memory is so full that no modification would fit in. But being computer programmer, I sort of doubt there is such a hard limit. The routing matrix must be IMHO present in current firmware, changing few zerros in it to ones would make, IMHO, the "trick". But, yes, I may be wrong and DF has just kind of basic loader inside and the DSP program and data are provided by TM....

But as I said earlier, such a change would be potentially dangerous at current state of things as users got used to current way of handling signal, if standalone. And their HW setups might go undesirabely to feedback and so after flashing new 'standalone' firmware.

Standalone operation makes sense as well for Digiface as for Babyface. If one uses it as sort of semipernament patchbay to interconnect several pieces of HW.

Either way, this version of Digiface will stay as it is. Let's hope for the future one, that will hopefully allow easy standalone use. ;-)

56 Reply by oli77sch (edited by oli77sch 2023-08-23 16:31:36)

  • Registered: 2016-06-14
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Re: Standalone digiface usb, please

Kubrak wrote:

DF is able to work standalone. I have checked that. One may power it using powered USB hub, for example. Or USB charger, or USB powerbank, ...

The only "problem" is, that one has to load snapshot needed using PC after power-up of DF. Since than, it runs standalone just fine.  Till power-off no need for computer. (Of course one cannot change anything in DF setting in the meantime as there are no buttons/knobs.)

True, so far it really is working. In my opinion, that’s not a real standalone mode.
By the way it’s the same as with the legendary Multiface units…

Kubrak wrote:

…But, yes, I may be wrong and DF has just kind of basic loader inside and the DSP program and data are provided by TM....

That’s probably the case. Maybe MC will chime in again concerning that question.

Kubrak wrote:

Either way, this version of Digiface will stay as it is. Let's hope for the future one, that will hopefully allow easy standalone use. ;-)

Who knows… My wish for a 'mk2' version would be added word clock bnc input/output. There are so many ADAT converters (with or without mic preamps) only having ADAT optical out and WC input (RME Octamic for example!). Such an unit now has to be clock master in combination with the Digiface USB. That’s ok so far, but as soon a second converter is added, it’s not easy to find a way to sync them all together.

FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2
  • Kubrak
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Re: Standalone digiface usb, please

Yes, you are right. WC in DF "mk2" would be benefitial.

So, wishlist is:
1) WC
2) at least one snapshot (like in fireface UC), or better six storable snapshots
3) ARC USB operation in standalone.

58 Reply by vinark (edited by vinark 2023-08-24 11:54:20)

  • vinark
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Re: Standalone digiface usb, please

I don't really get the use for this. So a 32 in to stereo out, without recording. That would be a perfect job for a mixer, preferably analog. Could be digital too, but why? A 32 into 2 or 4 or 8 mixer without unnecessary ADDA. Since the digiface has no FX, it could be very simple mixer even a line mixer. You think yeah but the digiface is cheaper maybe. But not with at least 4 ADDA boxes.
I agree the tmfx seems a little wasted on this unit, in fact mostly used to mix a headphones output, but rme already had the tech so cheap to implement.
Of course the unit could also be used as a 32 channel playback device if one needs to, instead of a 32 channel recording one.
Brilliantly simple device!

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632
  • Registered: 2013-09-13
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Re: Standalone digiface usb, please

If it could remember the last snapshot it could be used as a stand alone ADAT patch matrix. Very useful for us people with a lot of stuff connected to adat converters. But now it isn't so no big deal. It's intended for computer recording obviously and I'm sure it does it very well.

  • vinark
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Re: Standalone digiface usb, please

You can use it as a matrix with a small and cheap laptop attached. But remember everything needs to be synced.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
Babyface pro fs, HDSP9652+ADI-8AE, HDSP9632

61 Reply by Kubrak (edited by Kubrak 2023-09-01 12:07:09)

  • Kubrak
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Re: Standalone digiface usb, please

One may use DF standalone, if only one does not switch it off after initializing it using PC. I use it so, let it on forever....

Yes, it would be better if it would remember last setup... One could switch it off and on and maintain the desired functionality.

EDIT.
To sum it up, how to use DF standalone.
1) Run DF with computer and set it as needed.
2) Use DF as long as needed. One has to keep DF powered on, no computer needed, one may shut it down and disconnect.

I use powered USB hub, so DF gets power even without computer. One probably could use some kind of Y USB cable and power DF using batterypack if computer is not connected....

  • Registered: 2024-04-07
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Re: Standalone digiface usb, please

Was there any updates to this?

I do use my desktop a lot, but having a fallback routing when just USB powered would be great. Routing with a few ADATs is very tidy, instead of having an additional set of connections through jacks for non-recording use.

63 Reply by Kubrak (edited by Kubrak 2024-04-07 22:52:06)

  • Kubrak
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Re: Standalone digiface usb, please

No, news.....

I use it with powered USB hub, so that it keeps last settings. I use it probably similar way like you. Just to interconnect different sources and route signals between them. And have ability to reconfigure the signal flow without reconnecting anything. Just changing snapshots. 

I trust RME that DF does not have free flash memory to store last snapshot. But maybe RME could at least set the default matrix in DF so that each ADAT input is copied to corresponding ADAT output. It would be better than nothing....

Hopefully RME makes just a bit more advanced DF USB II one day....