Topic: Is there any way to use a Babyface Pro FS with a UCX II?

Hi folks,
I have a Babyface Pro FS, which has been great, but I now need a few more ins and outs, which the UCX II is perfect for. I was planning on selling the Babyface and replacing it with the UCX, but I'm wondering if there's any way I can use the interfaces together to expand the number of channels. If so, how would you do it, and are there any drawbacks/issues?

Thanks!

Re: Is there any way to use a Babyface Pro FS with a UCX II?

Mac or Windows computer ?

Do you already use all 8 Adat channels of the Babface ?

M1-Sonoma, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: Is there any way to use a Babyface Pro FS with a UCX II?

Hi, Windows... No, I don't use Adat.

4 (edited by waedi 2022-12-30 06:57:07)

Re: Is there any way to use a Babyface Pro FS with a UCX II?

slothkins wrote:

Hi, Windows... No, I don't use Adat.

when you say you need more channels, that mean you want to have more analog inputs XLR and Jack, right ?

The adat connector is 8 channels, ready to use with an external unit,
something like this :
https://www.rme-audio.de/de_12mic.html
or this :
https://www.thomann.de/de/behringer_ada … ragain.htm

For a combination of two interfaces (Babyface and UCX ) on Windows computer, I don't know how to do this.
There may be some software for workaround.

M1-Sonoma, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: Is there any way to use a Babyface Pro FS with a UCX II?

Hi Waedi,

Yes, I actually only need a couple more line-level ins and outs. I briefly looked into Adat expanders like the ones you listed, but they are really too much for what I need (I don't need preamps and the expanders are too big to be easily portable for me).

I'd wondered if there was a way to pair the Babyface and UCX together using Adat or something else so that I wouldn't have to go through the hassle of selling the Babyface.

Re: Is there any way to use a Babyface Pro FS with a UCX II?

You are right, 19" rack size devices are not very mobile.
But if you take off the rack ears it will fit into a computerbag like this one :
https://www.digitec.ch/de/s1/product/di … e-14975225
Easy to carry and lightweight.

Babyface and UCX at one computer they need an Adat cable to sync and they will not share one Totalmix, each unit has its own Totalmix running.

Btw the ADA8200 has 8 Line-In jack and 8 XLR for mics.
And it is availabe !

M1-Sonoma, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: Is there any way to use a Babyface Pro FS with a UCX II?

So you can link the Babyface and UCX together with an ADAT cable? How would this work in a DAW? I use Ableton Live. Would I only be able to use one interface at a time, or would I be able to access all the channels in Ableton? It sounds like it's probably less than ideal and I should try to sell the Babyface.

I've read that the ADA8200 works well. If it was any other company, I might get one, even if it is too big for my small space.

Thanks.

8 (edited by ramses 2022-12-30 08:34:18)

Re: Is there any way to use a Babyface Pro FS with a UCX II?

How many analog I/Os do you need in total? How many analog inputs and outputs? Mic / Instr inputs?

And yes, you could use UCX II and BBF Pro FS in the following way.

UCX II and BBF Pro FS use the same ASIO driver, so any application that loads the ASIO driver can access both interfaces.
You just have to make sure that they are clock synchronous (e.g., via ADAT) and use the same ASIO buffer size for both in the driver settings.
Otherwise, you will get an offset in, e.g., recorded tracks.

The converter latency of both interfaces is almost the same: 5/7 vs. 5/6 samples in/out. So only a negligible offset is to be expected. However, stereo devices should only be connected to one or the other at a time.

The only minor drawback is that you would have to work with two isolated TotalMix FX instances, one for the UCX II and one for the BBF Pro. You would have to route in the DAW if you wanted to send audio from an input on the BBF Pro to an output on the UCX II.

To get around this, however, you could do something different and connect the BBF Pro FS to the UCX II via ADAT and run it in standalone mode.
Then you can route the analog channels of the BBF Pro FS via ADAT and make them available on the UCX II.
Then there would also be only one TM FX instance where you can route any input and SW playback channel to any output of the UCX II.

In both scenarios, one of the two devices needs to be clock master. The clock slave can get clock through one of the digital links (word clock is not an option for the BBF Pro FS). You could connect a TOSLINK cable from UCX II ADAT OUT to BBF Pro FS (ADAT IN) for clock synchronization.

@waedi: as a side note … even though it turned out that you need more analog I/O and assuming an equal number of inputs and outputs. Connecting a 12Mic to a recording interface with only 1 ADAT input is a bad idea. You could only use 8 out of 12 channels. Too much money wasted if you can't use 4 of 12 ports at single speed and only in single speed.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Is there any way to use a Babyface Pro FS with a UCX II?

Hi ramses,
Right now, I don't need the extra ins and outs that keeping the Babyface would provide. I'm just looking for a reason not to go through the hassle of trying to sell it, with the thought that I might have a use for the additional channels at some point.

Which interface has the slower 5/7 latency? What issues would the difference cause?

Thanks

10 (edited by ramses 2022-12-30 08:44:50)

Re: Is there any way to use a Babyface Pro FS with a UCX II?

As an alternative, get an UFX II or the successor of the UFX+ if your budget allows.
Ok, I know, it's not a small form factor, but tbh .. Better one device with many ports and options (possibilities!) and one normal power cable compared to having two little devices with external power adapters. I know BBF Pro FS can be operated USB bus powered, but I, personally, would recommend using a PSU to have a good power delivery.
With the UFX II you would automatically get much more compared to the combination of UCX II and BBF Pro.
Furthermore, the MADIface driver supports the same very low ASIO buffersize of 32 samples like PCIe-based products.
You get two equal headphone outputs with much more power.
Four excellent Mic inputs which can also be used as line and instr input.
Regarding Instr inputs, the UFX II has a wider gain range for instr inputs compared to UCX II.
My advice, instead of spending a lot of money for combining two products, I would buy the better product in one standard form factor.
You have also more possibilities to expand later, 2x ADAT I/O to connect more preamps or AD/DA converter
and 1x AES I/O to connect, e.g., an ADI-2 Pro FS if you want the quality and unique features of this unit.
So, you buy now and can keep the UFX II for a very long time and expand it further if needed.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

11 (edited by ramses 2022-12-30 09:03:19)

Re: Is there any way to use a Babyface Pro FS with a UCX II?

slothkins wrote:

[...]Which interface has the slower 5/7 latency? What issues would the difference cause?[...]

Both devices have extremely low converter latencies there is nothing to worry about, it doesn't make the one or other device significantly better or worse. Around 12y ago the converter latencies were at 43 / 28 samples (RME UC).

You can read the converter latency in the manuals.
It's always behind the technical specifications in the chapter latency and monitoring:

https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/bface_pro_fs_d.pdf
https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/bface_pro_fs_e.pdf
https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/fface_ucx2_d.pdf
https://www.rme-audio.de/downloads/fface_ucx2_e.pdf

Alternatively, you can get it from an Excel sheet in one of my blog articles:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … B-MADIfac/
Direct link to Excel: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/attachme … 9-19-xlsx/

See line 31. It's the converter latency at 44.1 kHz, as this sample rate is widely being used and which is easier to compare.

1 sample difference is tiny, I wouldn't worry too much. As a comparison, it takes 3 samples to forward audio from one MADI device to the next one if you build up a serial chain of up to 8 MADI devices (e.g. ADI-8 QS or Octamic XTC following an 8-port schema).

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

12 (edited by ramses 2022-12-30 09:02:09)

Re: Is there any way to use a Babyface Pro FS with a UCX II?

slothkins wrote:

[...]I'm just looking for a reason not to go through the hassle of trying to sell it, with the thought that I might have a use for the additional channels at some point.[...]

Selling an RME interface is relatively easy and currently there is a high demand on interfaces and some shops even increased the prices. For a current interface in excellent condition, you should get around 75% of street price.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

13 (edited by ramses 2022-12-30 09:08:40)

Re: Is there any way to use a Babyface Pro FS with a UCX II?

slothkins wrote:

Right now, I don't need the extra ins and outs that keeping the Babyface would provide.

If the BBF Pro FS is sufficient to you, well then stick with it and buy/upgrade if there is a concrete demand.

But if you know that you will have a higher demand in the near future, then I would sell the BBF Pro FS now.
Some shops currently sell BBF Pro to even higher prices, so street price seems to be a little bit higher.

This would compensate the costs for eBay or on reverb.com (cheaper).

Now is the ideal time to upgrade to an UCX II or even UFX II when your BBF Pro FS is still like new.

But do not sell, before you really get the new device ...

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Is there any way to use a Babyface Pro FS with a UCX II?

Hi ramses,

Thanks for all that great info!

I think you misunderstood, I need the additional ins and outs that the UCX II would provide over the Babyface right now, and that's why I'm upgrading to the UCX II. I'll never need all the functionality and channels of something like the UFX in what I do.

I'm curious about what you said regarding the MADIface driver and the UFX II. I thought I'd read that the UFX doesn't use MADI. I thought it was a USB interface. I'm not even sure what MADI is (I'd assumed it was a connection protocol like ADAT).

One other question: I'd read in the RME manual that it's not ideal to run system audio (meaning Windows default system sounds, web playback, etc.) through the same interface you're using for recording. I haven't had any noticeable issues using the Babyface in this way. Do you use a different interface for your computer's system sounds?

Re: Is there any way to use a Babyface Pro FS with a UCX II?

UFX II and UFX+ use the MADIface driver. Don't be confused about the driver's name.
It simply supports different recording interfaces and also the ADI-2 DAC/Pro converters.
The UFX II is the UFX+ without MADI and only USB2 because this is fully sufficient for a 30ch interface.

I am using the UFX+ as main interface for Windows and Applications/DAW.
I have Windows system sounds turned off.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Is there any way to use a Babyface Pro FS with a UCX II?

Ok, I see.

I also have Windows system sounds off. Is it only the system sounds that can cause issues with recording? I don't think I've noticed any problems.

Re: Is there any way to use a Babyface Pro FS with a UCX II?

slothkins wrote:

Ok, I see.

I also have Windows system sounds off. Is it only the system sounds that can cause issues with recording? I don't think I've noticed any problems.

I think it's only about not getting disturbed thru system sounds while recording / mixing / mastering sessions.

FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

18 (edited by 53b1f60f6980 2023-01-02 11:02:33)

Re: Is there any way to use a Babyface Pro FS with a UCX II?

I have had this exact setup for a little while. You can use 2 ADAT cables to connect the two interfaces. They both have 8 ADAT channels, so one's inputs are the other's outputs.

TotalMixFX will detect both interfaces and present you with two mix windows, one for each. So if you want to use the Babyface's inputs with the UCXII you route the Babyface inputs to its ADAT outputs 1/2 (in the TotalMixFX window for the Babyface). Then you switch to the TotalMixFX window for the UCXII and you should see incoming signal on the ADAT inputs.

Hope this helps.

19 (edited by ramses 2023-01-02 12:18:38)

Re: Is there any way to use a Babyface Pro FS with a UCX II?

53b1f60f6980 wrote:

I have had this exact setup for a little while. You can use 2 ADAT cables to connect the two interfaces. They both have 8 ADAT channels, so one's inputs are the other's outputs.

TotalMixFX will detect both interfaces and present you with two mix windows, one for each. So if you want to use the Babyface's inputs with the UCXII you route the Babyface inputs to its ADAT outputs 1/2 (in the TotalMixFX window for the Babyface). Then you switch to the TotalMixFX window for the UCXII and you should see incoming signal on the ADAT inputs..

Already suggested that in post#8 besides other options.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13