Hi David,

welcome to the RME user forum.

The reason is, that the loopback implementation of the Babyface Pro FS is "post-fader". With some interfaces (like UCX II) loopback is implemented "pre-fader" which would be more useful in your case.

Your idea is correct, you could send audio to any other unused HW output (analog or digital, doesn't matter) for loopback purposes. This is only possible if all applications allowed to configure any I/O port as audio input, sadly this is not the case.

Windows: types of audio applications

To give you an overview, the following type of application you experience on a Windows computer:

a) Applications with ASIO support are the best, here you can select any of the HW inputs for recording.

b) Applications without ASIO support need a WDM driver that you can create in the RME driver settings (for any I/O port).
The issue here is that only some applications have the possibility to select *any* WDM driver of your system.
Some applications can only read from the Windows Standard Device for Recording (that you need to define system-wide in the Windows Sound settings) or maybe only from the 1st detected input.

Two solutions

You could switch to a recording interface like the UCX II, which has a pre-fader loopback implementation, but I think the following two options are more relevant to solve the issue for you:

Option 1)Passive volume controller: because it doesn't cost much, is easy to implement and solves the issue entirely.

Option 2) ADI-2 DAC/Pro FS: costs more, solves the issue entirely, but gives you a lot of very useful features on top, and you have the best reference converter that you can get for the money. With useful features that are unique to these devices.

Here the two possibilities in detail:

1. Passive volume controller

The cheapest solution is to use a passive volume controller between Babyface Pro AN 1/2 OUT and active monitor to turn down the volume. Some people on forum often mention this product here:
https://www.thomann.de/de/tc_electronic_level_pilot.htm

Note, there are other solutions with additional functions like mute, mono mix, connecting a 2nd or 3rd pair of monitors, subwoofer and "what not", see this list of Studio/Monitor controllers from Thomann:
https://www.thomann.de/de/studio_monitorcontroller.html

2. Integration of ADI-2 DAC FS or ADI-2 Pro FS into your setup

This is the most expensive, but IMHO the best solution that you can get. The ADI-2 DAC/Pro FS series of products are the best and most flexible headphone amps and high-quality converter on the market, with advanced / unique features like:
- 4 different reference levels for analog outputs (Pro: also inputs)
- auto-reference level to dynamically select the ideal reference level to maximize SNR / DR (dynamic range)
- dynamic loudness to increase Bass/Treble dynamically over a range of 20dB (Bass and Treble gain user configurable up to 10 dB).
Regarding dynamic loudness. Very useful for office work so that the sound doesn't become too thin on lower volumes. During office work I need sometimes background music, and then it is wonderful, that the sound at lower volumes is still kind of "rich and full".

Maybe your friend can support you to get the relevant information for you out of this blog article,
which is about the different models and features of ADI-2 DAC FS and ADI-2 Pro FS R BE:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … ses-EN-DE/
If this were an interesting option for you, then I can support you, selecting the proper model for you.

Option 2 - Connection to recording interface and benefits

You could connect the ADI-2 DAC or ADI-2 Pro via ADAT/SPDIF to your Babyface Pro to have lossless transfer of digital audio through ADAT or SPDIF (ADI-2 DAC/Pro understand both protocols).

Now you get multiple benefits at the same time:

1. Speakers and phones are connected to the ADI-2 DAC/Pro, so the volume for monitoring is now being controlled at the ADI-2 DAC or Pro.

2. As your active monitors are not connected anymore to the HW output AN 1/2 of the Babyface Pro, you can keep the fader of HW output AN 1/2 at 0dB, so that you have no issues anymore with loopback recording (and post-fader implemenation).

3. You standardize your setup in terms of loopback recording, as all of your applications can record loopback audio now from HW input AN 1/2. No need to change anything anymore, which, I think, is very useful for you to make things simpler.

4. You do not need to worry about level mismatches anymore. The ADI-2 DAC/Pro remember the volume settings for all analog outputs (monitors/phones), comparable to the passive monitor controller. So, an accidental double-click to an output fader in TM FX doesn't lead to a very high volume, which could be bad for your monitors and ears if the level mismatch were very high (very sensitive/loud monitors).

ADI-2 DAC/Pro - Further benefits of key mapping

I think the solution with ADI-2 DAC/Pro would also have other little benefits to you, as the four keys in the front are user-assignable. In the following blog article, I described the integration of the reference converter into an RME setup and make proposals for useful key mappings for the front key.
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … our-Setup/

By this, I am able to
- switch between monitors / phones
- toggle activation / deactivation of PEQ, active loudness, Bass/Treble if you want to ensure to have the original signal
- mute all outputs, I am using the last key for this because this is quickest to find/select with the hand even if I do not look into that direction. Your friend can have a look at the article to see, how you can implement this easily.

I am also using two ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, one in the recording corner, one in the HiFi corner. I'm so excited about the quality and unique features of the devices, that I couldn't do without them.

If there are any remaining questions about the one or other solution, I am happy to further support you.
Do not hesitate to ask further questions if needed.

Thank you! Yes, that's the kind of work flow I hope to achieve. How do I do that?

Thank you, waedi!

The first post was my imagined scenario. I didn't do that, not personally. The interface of Total Mix FX is not 100% accessible. All the audio routing needs to be done by a sighted person either in person or online through a remote software.

So, in short, one can take the audio of my monitors at output 1/2 and send the exact same signal to ADAT 3/4, activate the loopback for that channel to send to input 3/4 and then get results? If so, I guess there's hope for me, as long as Windows recognizes this signal.

Thanks!

David

Exactly !

Have you activated WDM devices in the RME settings ? How many ?

Then you need a WDM device for ADAT 3/4 as well and record from that HW input channel.

In this last posting, you mentioned, you have only WDM devices for AN 1/2 and AN 3/4.
Either ADAT 3/4 was a typo in your post or one WDM device is missing, then create it.

This is interesting -- I need to select 4 WDM devices to get to "ADAT (3+4)". This is misleading then -- what WDM device does "AN3/4" correspond to?

Thanks for inspiring me, let me try again.

Just looked into the BBF Pro manual.
The WDM part is a little different to my UFX+ which uses a different USB driver (MADIface driver).

On manual page 34 I found the order of I/O ports: AN1/2, AN3/4, AS1/2, ADAT3/4, ADAT5/6, ADAT7/8.

So if you selected in the driver settings in the pull down menu for WDM devices "4",
then I assume that you get WDM stereo devices starting with "AN1/2" up to "ADAT 3/4".

Did you get it working now?

Very nice that it worked out for you!

Hi all

I guess it could be this: The Babyface pro FS has an additional pair of channels in each direction (i/o). It's to send and return signals for TotalMix reverb and echo FX to the computer to process them on the CPU. It's because the internal DSP is too weak.
From the manual p. 54:
The transmission of the stereo signal FX Send to the computer and the effects signal FX Out back to the Babyface Pro is done by two invisible ASIO channels. The delay (latency) generated by this method is of no consequence for the offered effects reverb and echo. But it is still taken into account for the adjustment of the Reverb PreDelay. The lowest value depends on the currently chosen buffer size (see Settings dialog, chapter 8.1).

AN 3/4 outputs are the headphone channels

Greetings

I see. Well, unfortunately AN3+4 input and AN3+4 outputs can't talk with each other like the others, as I've tested this afternoon. But I'm glad things are working now and this means I can have a very fantastic interface at my disposal!!!

I believe so. That's how we tested yesterday at the remote session.

The main channel does have the Loopback function, and it also works when set to Phones 3/4.

I see. Thanks for this! I think the good point about getting the loopback to the SPDIF/ADAT (1+2) is that since it's a digital input, there's no preamp noise, unlike AN (1+2) for example. It's just some extra WDM devices. I wish RME could give us selection checkboxes to say if we want what WDM device to stay on the computer. Maybe in some future update? But so far, the user experience has been very stable.

Good to know, thanks! I guess for now, since it's working, I'll let it stay that way. I wonder, can I export my settings so if I plug the Babyface Pro FS into a different computer, I can import everything in one click, and my faders would be right there and loop back and routing settings recalled? Thank you!

I see, thank you! Does this workspace file remember, for example, I have the SPDIF/ADAT (1+2) faders up to maximum and that the audio from AN (1+2) is routed to SPDIF/ADAT (1+2) as well? If so, that would save me a lot of trouble. Thanks!

That would be great. Thanks for your tip, I'll export the file right now and keep it somewhere convenient!