Topic: AD-2 Pro Power Supply

I am new to this forum and this is my first post.  Please forgive me if this issue has been discussed before - it probably has but I cannot find it.
I am in the process of buying a AD-2 Pro.  All my previous experience tells me that I should get a quality linear power supply rather than using the one that comes with the unit.  What is the view of the Community on this please?  And if I do need to buy another power supply I would welcome any suggestion.  Hopefully I will not need to!
Very much looking forward to a new dimension in my hi-fi hobby and being part of what seems to be a very active community.
Mitch

Re: AD-2 Pro Power Supply

There are already many discussions about this in the forum. Please search for DPS-2 for the current status.

Ralf
(ADI-2 Pro FS with ThinkPad Yoga L13, Dynaudio Focus 600 XD or Focal Clear — and a lot of Jazz)

3 (edited by KaiS 2023-03-07 12:05:55)

Re: AD-2 Pro Power Supply

Mitchlees66 wrote:

I am in the process of buying a AD-2 Pro.  All my previous experience tells me that I should get a quality linear power supply rather than using the one that comes with the unit.  What is the view of the Community on this please?  And if I do need to buy another power supply I would welcome any suggestion.  Hopefully I will not need to!

Personally, before spending on an expensive PSU, I’d rather invest the additional money into an ADI-2/4 Pro SE instead, which can give more return on it if it’s extra features are needed.


Here are some facts and thoughts about PSUs for ADI-2:

You have to keep in mind, ADI-2 produces all it’s multiple internal supply voltages with a combination of a built-in SMPS, followed by a number of Linear Regulators.
The external 12 V supply is just the basic energy source to be further conditioned by the internal supplies’ stages.

ADI-2’s enormous dynamic range beyond 120 dB wouldn’t be possible if there were any “dirt” on these internal DC voltages.

IMO a device that needs an extra, four figure $$$ external PSU to sound best has design flaws.
And then there certainly is some amount of placebo effect too.


Finally it’s your decision and money, and there are companies out there willing to take more of it than ADI-2 Pro costs for an Uber-Ambitious designed PSU smile.



Some other postings on the issue:

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 75#p198275

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 26#p187926


Legend:
SMPS = Switched Mode Power Supply
LPS = Linear (regulated) Power Supply

Re: AD-2 Pro Power Supply

Thank you, I thought I might not need the additional power supply and I am delighted that is so.  I was going to ask about the Pro 2/4 SE model.  I do not need a MM phonostage - my cartridge is MC.  But the pre amp may be useful as I am considering moving to active speakers in which case I would not be using my power amps, and I could also dispense with the pre amp if the Pro 2/4 has the facility to pass  my MC phono stage signal straight through.
Are there any performance advantages of the Pro 2/4over the Pro?
Thank you again for your time and advice.
Mitch

5 (edited by KaiS 2023-03-07 14:56:50)

Re: AD-2 Pro Power Supply

Mitchlees66 wrote:

.. I was going to ask about the Pro 2/4 SE model.  I do not need a MM phonostage - my cartridge is MC.  But the pre amp may be useful as I am considering moving to active speakers in which case I would not be using my power amps, and I could also dispense with the pre amp if the Pro 2/4 has the facility to pass  my MC phono stage signal straight through.

Here a view on the differences ADI-2 Pro vs ADI-2/4 Pro SE:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 47#p198547


If the MC cartridge is “high output” and/or you use a step-up transformer or a Pre-Peamp, you can connect it to ADI-2 Pro SE too.

Currently I have an Ortofon OMP 40 connected (Output 4 mV), and still 12 dB gain reserve left.
So down to 1 mv output MC would work too.

There is no “1:1 feed-through of analog signals, wouldn’t even make sense on such sensitivity signals like from an MC-cartridge.

Mitchlees66 wrote:

Are there any performance advantages of the Pro 2/4over the Pro?

I did a comprehensive Level Matched Blind A/B comparison, it ended 49:51 better sound one or the other.

There are sound differences if non-standard DA-Filters are used, as AKM and ESS offer different shapes for those.
Nothing night and day and a matter of taste - anyway most don’t even hear the differences between the various DA-Filters in the same unit.

Re: AD-2 Pro Power Supply

Thank you.
As these are pro DACs and don’t seem to have RCA/phono inputs, is it possible to connect using my phono leads or will I need to buy new interconnects?

As I understand it both the Pro and the Pro 2/4 can act as a pre amp, is this correct?  If so is the the 2/4 a better pre amp ?

I am sorry if these may be very basic questions but once I have decided on the model and bought it things will become clearer.

Does anyone know who is the RME main dealer/importer in the UK please?

I really am very grateful for your advice
Mitch

7 (edited by KaiS 2023-03-07 19:34:22)

Re: AD-2 Pro Power Supply

Both ADI-2 have the same XLR/TRS combined socket as anlog input.
A simple TS-RCA adapter is all that’s needed for standard RCA cables:
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51a24zjF3kL._AC_SX679_.jpg

Aside from ADI-2/4’s phono/RIAA preamp capability and the needed fitting input impedance both ADI-2s offer similar quality.
Most line sources, including home Hifi, don’t care about the different impedance.
ADI-2/4’s level adaptability range extends non significant (3 dB) to the lower.


Personally I can tell:
ADI-2/4’s phono input is more than just a nice add - it sounds and works RME-typical very good, clean and with no added noise, and makes me listen to my vinyl collection more these days.

My choice, if prices aren’t on a premium, ADI-2/4, else I would bit my @#s once I could use the extras.
Of course, if non of these do mean anything, ADI-2 Pro offers the same qualities.

Re: AD-2 Pro Power Supply

Thanks everyone for your advice. I have one more question for you experts, and it is a more general one about powering dacs.  The measurements have proven that DACs such as the RME, and others at the top end of the league table are able to accurately reproduce the digital input in analog form.  Some makes have sophisticated, and expensive, internal power sections with huge and heavy components, and others do not, yet output measurements are near identical.  How is this possible?  A layman, such as me, might conclude that those big, shielded power stages are not required.  In other words, if 2 DACs have similar DSP producing similar measurements with noise and jitter etc well below audible threshold, yet one has a power stage that doubles the cost of the unit, should we not always opt for the cheaper model.  OR, is there another factor, other than the measurements that might make the more expensive dac sound better, excluding any downstream equipment?  I am just interested in what the dac produces, as Armin says, what the designer does inside the box should not concern us, it is only the end result in which we are interested?  I quote a popular reviewer on Utube: ‘ the RME is a great sounding dac, but not as good of course than dac …. at twice the price, as you would expect’.  Well is that what we should expect?  What I have learned from this excellent site is that maybe we should not.  But am I correct?

Ultimately this decision affects buying choices.  I want a new dac, and I am prepared to spend to get a high performance one, but on the other hand, I do not want to spend on what is not necessary!  I am very attracted by the RME Pro, and it is at least half the price of my other contenders, some of which have slightly worse measurements.  But am I missing something?  Is the old adage of ‘you need to double the price you pay for a component to get noticeably better performance’ correct - it is a revalation to me, after 50 years or buying hi fi, that it might not be.

Sorry for this rambling post, but after a long time in this hobby I may be at a crossroads, mainly because of the compelling arguments of Armin.  I just hope I have interpreted those arguments correctly.
Thanks, Mitch

9 (edited by KaiS 2023-03-09 14:01:44)

Re: AD-2 Pro Power Supply

It all boils down to some simple answers:

99% of the info that is present on the net is based on parrot-fashioned spread hearsay, myth-building, expectation bias, comparisons with non-matching levels or parameters, and some intentional misinformation to sell uber-expensive stuff.


There’s a smaller group of very loud opinion leaders and self declared “experts” who often lack even the basic’s of knowledge, defending their self-built myth’s in a religious way.
There’s not much place for simple fact, vs ”religion”.


Did you notice: for those people always the more expensive “sounds better” - how can that be?!



Personally, if I give information it’s always based on my own experience only:

I have, e.g., conducted and participated at a countless number of thoroughly executed Level Matched Blind A/B or A/B/X comparisons of all types of audio equipment and audio codecs:

DAC’s themselves do not tend to sound different with the high development level reached these days - if they are set with the same parameters like same output- (reconstruction-) filters.
But - people don’t know about the filters, so compare apples to oranges and no wonder find they taste different.


Then the laymen tend ro concentrate on the visible or tactile obvious, like “heavier” built, to judge like: “bigger is better”.


But this is not the way audio design works.

It’s all about well-though out circuits, including the component layout and circuit trace routing, that makes the difference.

With a bad design you need a lot of metal screening, even external PSU’s to achieve good results.

Just lately I’ve seen review and measurements of a five figure $$$$$ phono stage with built in PSU, that got 3 to 5 dB better SNR when used with an external five figure $$$$$ PSU - the designer wasn’t able to construct the phone stage properly in the first place, sounds like a bad joke at this price point. (*1)


ADI-2/4 Pro SE’s phono input is a good example of the opposite:
Although built into the same box with no extra screening, it’s free from any stray-noise from the internal digital circuits - that’s good audio design.



(*1)
https://www.stereophile.com/content/ana … eamplifier

”...The current input noise (CH calls it the equivalent input noise, or EIN) is specified as <–135dBu without the X1 power supply, or <–138dBu with the X1, ...”
... “ The EIN specs for the voltage gain input are also impressive: <–130dBu without X1, <–135dBu with X1”...

Re: AD-2 Pro Power Supply

Thank you.  Much as I expected.  You can tell that I am new to posting on these forums.  I had intended to put this on the other forum to which I subscribe - Audio Science Review, but it is equally at home here I think.  The initial responses on that site are pretty much the same as yours.
Thanks
Mitch