1 (edited by XFX 2023-04-26 17:57:37)

Topic: HDSP(e) AIO Expansion options and best practices

RME friends,

I have one expansion option left on my HDSPE AIO through ADAT.
I want to add the “ RME M-1610 Pro”  to my setup. I initially thought that I can add the MADI FX as an pcie card to my setup. Now I understand that the MADI FX, doesn’t share the HDSPE driver family. The HDSPE MADI does.

1.    Does this mean that the MADI FX and the AIO can not coexist in the same computer both using their own drivers?

2.    I still want to have all routing possibilities. Would you rather invest in having all channels in one TotalmixFX instance? In other words, ditch the AIO and just add another converter next to the RME M-1610 Pro on an interface that can host all the connected converters?

3.    Can I route between third party converters to channels on a RME M-1610 Pro using a MADI (FX)interface?
4.     Can anyone elaborate on the fan noise of the “RME M-1610 Pro”?
5.     Any news on the availability of the MADI (FX)?
6.     Max cable run for ADAT for RME products..

I never thought I was going to work with MADI as a hobbyist, but that longer cable run is appealing as my DAW is in a separate room.

Thanks in advance folks.

2 (edited by ramses 2023-04-26 19:23:34)

Re: HDSP(e) AIO Expansion options and best practices

>I have one expansion option left on my HDSPE AIO through ADAT.
>I want to add the “ RME M-1610 Pro”  to my setup.

Makes no sense, one ADAT ports supports 8ch at single speed. The M-1610 Pro supports 16 inputs for A/D.

HDSPe MADI FX has a spezial driver which supports the cards special functions and which has optimization features.
Ports are grouped to 8ch and CPU resources are allocated from the driver only if at least one channel is in use for such a group of 8 ports. This is a very uniq feature of this driver/card. Otherwise the default is, that data for all channels is being transferred, no matter if they are in use or not.

MADI FX and HDSPe AIO use the same HDSPe driver.
But there is no backplane between those cards, so in order to route HW inputs or SW playback channels from one card to the HW outputs of the other card you need to either route everything through the DAW with the usual RTL which can heavily change depending on the buffer-size that you use for ASIO (Windows) or in the Application (Apple). Or you need to "sacrifice" digital channels for making a cross-link between the cards.

But the problem is, HDSPe AIO has no MADI port and HDSPe MADI has no ADAT port. You would need to route everything through the DAW as I mentioned.

So ... to answer the points from you

to 1) they use different drivers, a DAW can only load one driver at a time

to 2) I regard it as a big advantage to have one TM FX instance and where you can route all HW inputs and SW playback channels to any HW output as you want. So I would use a recording interface (either USB or PCIe based) with MADI to have the desired flexibility.

to 3) if you get a RME recording interface as a base with e.g. MADI, ADAT/SPDIF, AES ports, then you can add any 3rd party converter which also supports one of those port/transfer standards (MADI, ADAT/SPDIF, AES).

to 4) if I remember correctly the fan of those products can be set to different levels and I do not remember that anyone really had a reason to complain.

to 5) this is a question that only RME can answer. But 1st I would wait what devices would be ideal for such a setup.

to 6) according to standard around 10m, but for me also 15m +1m = 16m TOSLINK cable from Mutec worked well up to 192 kHz: UFX+ ---15m---- Optosel Mk II 4:1 TOSLINK Switcher ----1m--- ADI-2 Pro FS R BE ---analog--- HiFi Integrated Amp.


Ideal "dream setup" for you (as it makes no sense to combine HDSPe AIO with HDSPe MADI ...)

|----Room 1---------------------------------------------------|Wall|----Room 2-------------------------------------

PC----ARC USB
|
USB3
|
UFX III------------>-----------------MADI------------------------------>#1 M-1610 Pro-------------------+
|       |                                                                                                                                           |
|       +--------------<------------------------------------------------------#2 3rd party MADI device<------+
|
+-----AES or ADAT--->ADI-2 Pro FS R BE----->1/2: active monitors
+<---AES or ADAT---/                              \----->3/4: phones
                                                               \<---Analog IN for A/D

Or a combination of HDSPe MADI FX and M-1610 Pro and ADI-2 Pro FS R BE for monitoring
which can be connected nicely to the HDSPe MADI FX AES port.

On the other hand UFX III gives you so many useful things as superb Mic / Instr inputs, Analog I/O, Autoset, DURec, stand-alone capabilities, direct connector for ARC USB.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

3 (edited by XFX 2023-04-26 20:06:57)

Re: HDSP(e) AIO Expansion options and best practices

ramses wrote:

>I have one expansion option left on my HDSPE AIO through ADAT.
>I want to add the “ RME M-1610 Pro”  to my setup.

Makes no sense, one ADAT ports supports 8ch at single speed. The M-1610 Pro supports 16 inputs for A/D.

HDSPe MADI FX has a spezial driver which supports the cards special functions and which has optimization features.
Ports are grouped to 8ch and CPU resources are allocated from the driver only if at least one channel is in use for such a group of 8 ports. This is a very uniq feature of this driver/card. Otherwise the default is, that data for all channels is being transferred, no matter if they are in use or not.

MADI FX and HDSPe AIO use the same HDSPe driver.
But there is no backplane between those cards, so in order to route HW inputs or SW playback channels from one card to the HW outputs of the other card you need to either route everything through the DAW with the usual RTL which can heavily change depending on the buffer-size that you use for ASIO (Windows) or in the Application (Apple). Or you need to "sacrifice" digital channels for making a cross-link between the cards.

But the problem is, HDSPe AIO has no MADI port and HDSPe MADI has no ADAT port. You would need to route everything through the DAW as I mentioned.

So ... to answer the points from you

to 1) they use different drivers, a DAW can only load one driver at a time

to 2) I regard it as a big advantage to have one TM FX instance and where you can route all HW inputs and SW playback channels to any HW output as you want. So I would use a recording interface (either USB or PCIe based) with MADI to have the desired flexibility.

to 3) if you get a RME recording interface as a base with e.g. MADI, ADAT/SPDIF, AES ports, then you can add any 3rd party converter which also supports one of those port/transfer standards (MADI, ADAT/SPDIF, AES).

to 4) if I remember correctly the fan of those products can be set to different levels and I do not remember that anyone really had a reason to complain.

to 5) this is a question that only RME can answer. But 1st I would wait what devices would be ideal for such a setup.

to 6) according to standard around 10m, but for me also 15m +1m = 16m TOSLINK cable from Mutec worked well up to 192 kHz: UFX+ ---15m---- Optosel Mk II 4:1 TOSLINK Switcher ----1m--- ADI-2 Pro FS R BE ---analog--- HiFi Integrated Amp.


Ideal "dream setup" for you (as it makes no sense to combine HDSPe AIO with HDSPe MADI ...)

|----Room 1---------------------------------------------------|Wall|----Room 2-------------------------------------

PC----ARC USB
|
USB3
|
UFX III------------>-----------------MADI------------------------------>#1 M-1610 Pro-------------------+
|       |                                                                                                                                           |
|       +--------------<------------------------------------------------------#2 3rd party MADI device<------+
|
+-----AES or ADAT--->ADI-2 Pro FS R BE----->1/2: active monitors
+<---AES or ADAT---/                              \----->3/4: phones
                                                               \<---Analog IN for A/D

Or a combination of HDSPe MADI FX and M-1610 Pro and ADI-2 Pro FS R BE for monitoring
which can be connected nicely to the HDSPe MADI FX AES port.

On the other hand UFX III gives you so many useful things as superb Mic / Instr inputs, Analog I/O, Autoset, DURec, stand-alone capabilities, direct connector for ARC USB.

***************************************************************************************************
Thanks for the effort of answering me. A couple of remarks on your reply.
First of all I'm aware of the channel count with the ADAT Interface.

HDSPe AIO with HDSPe MADI can be hosted in one system if I'm not mistaken as they use the same driver.
HDSPe AIO with HDSPe MADI FX can not given the arguments you provided and the driver information regarding the supported cards.

I like your idea on the use of USB3. But I still have a pcie-fetish. Most of my production are based on the use of VSTI.
My DAW-less setup has goten out of hand. Given the distances ADAT can cover does bring the opportunity for a cheaper solution based on RAYDAT. Adding an ADI interface is also great, but it financially adds up very quick. I am willing to add one to the setup in the future, just not in this phase.

Again thanks for you answer. It really helps in the design of my new setup.

4 (edited by ramses 2023-04-26 20:56:52)

Re: HDSP(e) AIO Expansion options and best practices

> HDSPe AIO with HDSPe MADI can be hosted in one system if I'm not mistaken as they use the same driver.

Yes, but ALL has to be routed through the DAW/application with the Full RTL.
This latency can become quite big depending on your use cases and ASIO (or application) buffersize.
Then direct monitoring won't work across interfaces.

Another point is that you have ZERO possibility to create a digital link between those cards to mitigate this for a few channels.  HDSPe AIO: has ADAT but no MADI. HDSPe MADI: has MADI but no ADAT.

Then get the HDSPe MADI FX alone, it has the better feature set and enough other ports that could be useful.

|----Room 1---------------------------------------------------|Wall|----Room 2-------------------------------------

PC----ARC USB
|
PCIe
|
HDSPe MADI FX------------>-----------------MADI#1 (of 3)--------->#1 M-1610 Pro-----------------+
|       |                                                                                                                                           |
|       +--------------<------------------------------------------------------#2 3rd party MADI device<------+
|
+-----AES--->ADI-2 Pro FS R BE----->1/2: active monitors
+<---AES---/                               \----->3/4: phones
                                                    \<---Analog IN for A/D

HDSPe MADI FX also has an AES port to connect the ADI-2 Pro for the monitoring which is superb.
Then it has even a phones output for quick monitoring.
It has as the only PCIe card the full implementation of FX chip.
It has MIDI ports.

See my Blog article, nice versatile card and also download/read the PDF v1.1 in the blog article.
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … Pro-FS-BE/
PDF: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/index.ph … l-v1-1-pdf

Information about ADI-2 Pro FS (models)
    https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … ses-EN-DE/
and integration into your setup:
    https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … our-Setup/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13