• Registered: 2023-10-04
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Topic: Best option RME ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition or Fireface UCXII?

Hello All, I am new to the forum, but decided it would be good place to ask fellow RME users before embarking on a purchase!

I primarily want to  upgrade my studio converters for mixing and mastering purposes.  Secondly, I will need to do some vocal tracking and also require a good headphone amp.

I currently use an Apollo Twin duo (mk 1) which is connected to my Audient Nero monitor controller -whereby I can switch between two sets of monitors (Neumann kh80's and Yamaha NS10's).  I use the Apollo Twin when recording vocals.

I initially was going to upgrade to the Apollo Twin X, but have seen so many reviews stating that the RME conversion and pre amps are far better, so I think its certainly worth my consideration, but would like to know exactly how I could incorporate either option within my current setup?

I am considering either  the RME ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition or the RME Fireface UCX II, But would greatly appreciate some advice.

The reason for me considering the RME ADI-2 Pro is for the superb conversion quality!  As mentioned above during mixing and mastering, but also due to the superior headphone amp, which I require to drive Neumann NDH 20 and Sennheiser hd650 headphones. However, I don't know for sure, if this is the best option?!  I wonder if you could answer a few questions:-

1.Is the ADI-2 Pro conversion superior to that of the Fireface UCX II?
2. And if so could I use my current Apollo Twin to record vocals into ADI-2 Pro for e.g? If so what would be the best way to do so?
3. Should I go with the Fireface UCX II and omit the Apollo Twin completely?  (This is only conditional if the Fireface will not compromise conversion and headphone amp as this is primary reason for upgrade).
4. With either option what would be the best way to connect to Audient Nero?

It would be great to hear from you all!

Thanks in advance:-)

2 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2023-10-04 23:10:33)

  • KaiS
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Re: Best option RME ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition or Fireface UCXII?

Tracking, mixing, mastering - you are better served from a Studio Interface, not just an AD-DA converter.

For RME the difference lies in TotalMix FX support and the sheer number of I/O ports, which the UCX / UFX series of interfaces offer.


What you want to do is possible with ADI-2 Pro, or better ADI-2/4 Pro SE, but the UCX / UFX provide a better usability, an easier workflow.
For tracking with the ADI-Converters you would need an extra mic-pre, the Apollo‘s can‘t be connected in a reasonable way I think.


On paper, technically, the ADI-2‘s have slightly superior converter quality, if that‘s really audible above what the UCXs / UFXs present only you can decide.
At least at 88.2 kHz and above sample rate I would see them on par.

RME converters rightfully in general ever since have the reputation for a clear and transparent sound.


My personal choice would be the UFX III with ARC USB, making the Audient obsolete too.

https://www.rme-audio.de/arc-usb.html
https://www.rme-usa.com/files/uploads/RME-Products/Accessories/ARC-USB.png

https://www.rme-usa.com/files/uploads/Content-Bilder/compatible.jpg

KaiS's Website

  • Registered: 2023-10-04
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Re: Best option RME ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition or Fireface UCXII?

Thank you KaiS for your very helpful reply.  You have certainly given me things to consider!!   Although,  I do think I will have to rule out the UCX III-from a price standpoint and also I think it might be overkill for me. As I am working mainly within the box and so do not require that many I/O’s. Although, if money was no object I would be thinking differently for sure, but as I have a £1500 budget, that unit along with usb arc sadly exceeds that.

So it is still between the Fireface UCXII and the ADI-2 Pro FS.  I asked whether using the Apollo was an option for connecting to the ADI-2 Pro, as I am so used to that workflow for tracking which I have become accustomed to doing using UAD plugins and which I quite like. However, I am still open to doing things differently if it leads to better results!  Although I am not really wanting to lose Audient nero monitor controller, as it speeds up my workflow and allows me to swap between monitors easily.  Not sure if this can be achieved with the the RME options I am considering?!

Thanks once again and feel free to add anything that you think might be worth mentioning. 

Also good to hear from others also. 

Thanks in advance!

  • KaiS
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Re: Best option RME ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition or Fireface UCXII?

I suggested the UFX III, but any U-designated RME interface offers comparable quality, just different I/O configuration.

Some of the UAD-plugs are hard to replace, like the LA2a and the 1176LN.
So if you, like me, still use them …

KaiS's Website

  • ramses
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Re: Best option RME ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition or Fireface UCXII?

I made good experience with a combination of RME recording interface and ADI-2 Pro FS.
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … our-Setup/

This gives you the best of the two worlds in one setup

- Flexibility of TM FX

- outstanding features of the ADI-2 Pro FS R BE
  https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … ses-EN-DE/

The UCX II got many good features of the flagship interface UCX II, among them:
- preamps with 75 dB gain
- DURec (direct USB recording)
- AES port to be able to connect ADI-2 Pro FS R BE
But you have only one ADAT port to connect e.g. another preamp.

If you think you need more ADAT port capacity, go 802 FS or even UFX II (I would recommend UFX II because of DURec and the preamp settings can also be stored in TM FX snapshots).

If you want to be future-proof to grow, consider UFX III with MADI.

If you need some UAD plugins, you could think about getting an UAD-2 Octo or a smaller one with fewer DSP.
Then you can also integrate UAD plugins into the solution.
https://www.thomann.de/de/universal_aud … 2_octo.htm

I was not so satisfied with the PCIe card, maybe you have more luck in your system / with your mainboard.
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ent … cie-en-de/

If it doesn't work, give it back.

If you want to compare the different RME recording interfaces, check my Excel sheet:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=35156

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2023-10-04
  • Posts: 9

Re: Best option RME ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition or Fireface UCXII?

KaiS wrote:

I suggested the UFX III, but any U-designated RME interface offers comparable quality, just different I/O configuration.

Some of the UAD-plugs are hard to replace, like the LA2a and the 1176LN.
So if you, like me, still use them …

 
I appreciate the recoomendaion KaiS.   And I agree re. your UAD plugin choices as these are some of the ones I also use!

  • Registered: 2023-10-04
  • Posts: 9

Re: Best option RME ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition or Fireface UCXII?

ramses wrote:

I made good experience with a combination of RME recording interface and ADI-2 Pro FS.
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … our-Setup/

This gives you the best of the two worlds in one setup

- Flexibility of TM FX

- outstanding features of the ADI-2 Pro FS R BE
  https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … ses-EN-DE/

The UCX II got many good features of the flagship interface UCX II, among them:
- preamps with 75 dB gain
- DURec (direct USB recording)
- AES port to be able to connect ADI-2 Pro FS R BE
But you have only one ADAT port to connect e.g. another preamp.

If you think you need more ADAT port capacity, go 802 FS or even UFX II (I would recommend UFX II because of DURec and the preamp settings can also be stored in TM FX snapshots).

If you want to be future-proof to grow, consider UFX III with MADI.

If you need some UAD plugins, you could think about getting an UAD-2 Octo or a smaller one with fewer DSP.
Then you can also integrate UAD plugins into the solution.

I was not so satisfied with the PCIe card, maybe you have more luck in your system / with your mainboard.

If it doesn't work, give it back.

If you want to compare the different RME recording interfaces, check my Excel sheet:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=35156

ramses, thank you very much for your comprehensive response, which is extremely helpful.  It is amazing that you have taken the time to create such incredibly useful resources, which I find to be invaluable and is a great help to someone like me, who is unsure of the best way to proceed!

I have just had a look at one of  your resources, which has a diagram of your setup! I do have a question, which is can I connect a 2nd pair of speakers to the ADI-2 Pro, as I am currently using a monitor controller to switch between two sets of speakers.  I can see the xlr outputs, which your mains are connected to and there does appear to be a second set of outputs, but am not sure whether these are balanced or unbalanced? And can these be switched to easily from the usb arc for example?

In addition, the UAD-2 octo option that you mentioned, would unfortunately not be possible for tracking, but only for mixing and mastering.  As many of these plugins are now available natively, it should be easier to use them within the DAW-although not for tracking in the way I currently do when recording vocals.  So it is from a recording/tracking point of view that I mainly like using the Apollo Twin and wondered how it might be incorporated, but it is looking less like a possibility it would seem.

You have given me plenty to consider and I will look at your resources in more depth today.  Thank you once again!

8 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2023-10-06 01:58:33)

  • ramses
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Re: Best option RME ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition or Fireface UCXII?

Thank you for the flowers. I started writing blog articles to save work, to not have to type everything over and over again and then it became more and more over time.

You're right, I would meanwhile also consider taking Native Plugins (surely there will be more and more). In the computer you have more computing power (compared to SHARC DSPs) and you then do not need a computer with free PCIe slots or expensive Thunderbolt expansion enclosures.

Regarding your question about XLR and TRS connectors on the back of the case. Same signal. You would have to invest into the more expensive ADI-2/4 Pro SE, which should be able to use Analog 1/2 and 3/4 for XLR and TRS if I remember right.

If you want to save the costs for an ADI-2/4 Pro SE, you could consider connecting the 2nd pair of monitors to free analog outputs of your recording interface. All current RME recording interfaces have fast, high-quality converters built-in.

Another idea, the UFX III even got the AKM converters of the ADI-2 Pro FS (the little older model).
Maybe it would be sufficient for you to run all of your active monitors using the UFX III excellent converters.
On top, you have the UFX III to be able to expand at any time in the future. One device for all purposes.

You can get an ADI-2 Pro FS R BE at any time later if budget allows to get the device-specific options of this reference converter.  (different ref levels and auto ref level to retain higher dynamic and SNR over a wider volume range, dynamic loudness, useful State Overview, PEQ, different A/D + D/A filter, Sample Rate Converter, etc.).

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2023-10-04
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Re: Best option RME ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition or Fireface UCXII?

Thank you once again for your reply ramses. Sorry I did not see that you replied-I was not alerted!

Once again you have given me plenty to consider!  I did look at the UFX III and whilst it looks amazing, it is unfortunately way over my budget of £1500, which therefore brings me back to the former two choices UCX II or ADI-2 Pro!!

I have had to give serious considering to what are my main priorities and I have narrowed them down to the following:-

1. mixing and mastering
2. Good Headphone Amp
3. Is tracking vocals

As tracking vocals is lower on my list of priorities and not something I do very often. Therefore, I have concluded that being able to hear my mixes accurately is of great importance to me. Given that you also mentioned that I could connect my 2nd set of monitors to my Apollo Twin (mk1) in the interim (until I can purchase an RME audio interface).  Then perhaps the ADI-2 pro FS might well be the first purchase to make?!  Nothing has been finalised and I am open to further persuasion or possible options.

If I need to connect 2nd monitors to audio interface. Do I also need to connect the Apollo to the ADI-2 or are these to be kept as two separate entities??

Thanks once again and I look forward to hearing your thoughts!!!

10 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2023-10-07 23:01:04)

  • KaiS
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Re: Best option RME ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition or Fireface UCXII?

I simple passive switcher is all you need to connect more than one pair of monitors.
Either your existing Audient, or e.g. this one, there are numerous variants with different connections:

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/31ObS6Xp2YL._AC_.jpg

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/719KRP3zmdL._AC_SX679_.jpg

KaiS's Website

  • Registered: 2023-10-04
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Re: Best option RME ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition or Fireface UCXII?

Thanks KaiS for your response once again.  Even better if I can keep costs down by using Audient Nero! Although not sure how I would connect to ADI-2 pro fs to the Audient, as the Audient doesn’t have a digital out?

12 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2023-10-08 06:31:18)

  • KaiS
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Re: Best option RME ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition or Fireface UCXII?

Angelface wrote:

…Although not sure how I would connect to ADI-2 pro fs to the Audient, as the Audient doesn’t have a digital out?

What for?
The Neumann KH80s have analog inputs only, and I suppose you have an analog power amp for the Yamaha NS-10s.


All you need is a distribution / switcher of ADI-2 Pro‘s rear analog line output, and your two headphones pairs go to ADI-2’s front connectors.
Same like with the Apollo.

Switching ‘phones / speakers can be done with ADI-2’s “Toggle Phones / Line”- function that can be activated by either:
• holding the Volume Knob for 1/2 s,
• assigned to a single IR-Remote or device key,
• by plugging the ‘phones,
• or you just let the ‘phones run.

Switching monitor pairs is with an external analog switcher, e.g. Audient or the mentioned one.

Once you add monitors with digital inputs, they can be switched too, on ADI-2.


Manual page 29:

Toggle Ph/Line
OFF, 1/2, 3/4, 1/2+3/4, All Plugged, Line/Digital. Default: OFF. Activates the ability to toggle mute between Phones Out, rear Line Out and digital outputs. Pushing the VOLUME knob for half a second will then switch between loudspeakers connected to the rear and phones plugged into the front. This function can also be controlled by one of the four function keys via Remap Function Keys. All Plugged only incorporates the phones output where a plug is detected. Line/Digital switches between analog Line Out and digital outputs, with Mute vs TRS active also between Phones and digital outputs.

KaiS's Website

  • Registered: 2023-10-04
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Re: Best option RME ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition or Fireface UCXII?

Thanks for your response, but forgive me KaiS, but I am a little confused.

Am I plugging 1 set of monitors in to the ADI-2 Pro FS output and 2nd pair into the switcher/Audient?

Or am connecting both sets of monitors into the the Audient?  And connecting ADI-2 Pro FS adat output-Audient optical input?

Sorry if this might seem obvious but I just want to be very clear.

In addition, you are correct the KH80’s do not have a digital connection  and Yamaha NS10’s are connected to analog amp.

Many thanks in advance

14 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2023-10-08 18:48:02)

  • ramses
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Re: Best option RME ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition or Fireface UCXII?

All roads lead to Rome, but I would consider whether it would not be more sensible to first acquire a recording interface with TotalMix FX as a solid basis, which would even be a bit cheaper than the ADI-2 Pro.

Just the recently revised UCX II offers here meanwhile, beside a high quality, many features, which were reserved up to now only for the flagship products. You could get an ADI-2 Pro at any time later to get also the unique features of this device.

Both ways are possible. It should just really be well tailored to your current and possibly future requirements.
The operation of TotalMix FX offers you all the possibilities to adjust the routing on the fly exactly as you need it.

With the ADI-2 Pro you have to study block diagrams to identify the appropriate operation mode and even then there is no interface where you can read the routing for each output channel as easily as in submix mode of TotalMix FX.

That's why my choice for such operational considerations would always be a recording interface with TM FX first and then the bells and whistles around it, should you think you require something more of this and that ..

That's just my two cents, your experiences may be different.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

15 Reply by KaiS (edited by KaiS 2023-10-08 21:23:39)

  • KaiS
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Re: Best option RME ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition or Fireface UCXII?

Angelface wrote:

…Am I plugging 1 set of monitors in to the ADI-2 Pro FS output and 2nd pair into the switcher/Audient?

Or am connecting both sets of monitors into the the Audient?  And connecting ADI-2 Pro FS adat output-Audient optical input?
…
In addition, you are correct the KH80’s do not have a digital connection  and Yamaha NS10’s are connected to analog amp.

It‘s very straight forward, just how it should be for everyday use.


You said you like what the Audient does, so
Option Audient Nero:

ADI-2 Pro‘s rear analog Line Output goes to the Audient.
The Audient cares for Monitor switching and volume control of both pairs.

The headphones both are plugged to ADI-2 directly.


An analog switchbox shortens the signal path, makes full use of ADI-2’s converter quality – so
Option Passive Analog Switchbox:

ADI-2 Pro‘s rear analog Line Output goes to the switchbox.
The passive switchbox cares for monitor switching / selection.
ADI-2 controls volume of both monitor pairs.

The headphones again are both plugged to ADI-2 directly.


ADI-2 Pro‘s digital outputs are not used this time, there‘s no destination where it‘s content could be used.

KaiS's Website

  • Registered: 2023-10-04
  • Posts: 9

Re: Best option RME ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition or Fireface UCXII?

ramses wrote:

All roads lead to Rome, but I would consider whether it would not be more sensible to first acquire a recording interface with TotalMix FX as a solid basis, which would even be a bit cheaper than the ADI-2 Pro.

Just the recently revised UCX II offers here meanwhile, beside a high quality, many features, which were reserved up to now only for the flagship products. You could get an ADI-2 Pro at any time later to get also the unique features of this device.

Both ways are possible. It should just really be well tailored to your current and possibly future requirements.
The operation of TotalMix FX offers you all the possibilities to adjust the routing on the fly exactly as you need it.

With the ADI-2 Pro you have to study block diagrams to identify the appropriate operation mode and even then there is no interface where you can read the routing for each output channel as easily as in submix mode of TotalMix FX.

That's why my choice for such operational considerations would always be a recording interface with TM FX first and then the bells and whistles around it, should you think you require something more of this and that ..

That's just my two cents, your experiences may be different.


Thank you ramses, you make some very valid points and ones that I would be foolish to ignore.  It’s a shame as if money was no object then I would purchase them both right away!! But unfortunately it is a factor and therefore I will pursue the best option that my workflow and budget allows for. 

I am extremely grateful to you for taking the time to respond once again. Your advice makes sense.

  • Registered: 2023-10-04
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Re: Best option RME ADI-2 Pro FS R Black Edition or Fireface UCXII?

KaiS wrote:
Angelface wrote:

…Am I plugging 1 set of monitors in to the ADI-2 Pro FS output and 2nd pair into the switcher/Audient?

Or am connecting both sets of monitors into the the Audient?  And connecting ADI-2 Pro FS adat output-Audient optical input?
…
In addition, you are correct the KH80’s do not have a digital connection  and Yamaha NS10’s are connected to analog amp.

It‘s very straight forward, just how it should be for everyday use.


You said you like what the Audient does, so
Option Audient Nero:

ADI-2 Pro‘s rear analog Line Output goes to the Audient.
The Audient cares for Monitor switching and volume control of both pairs.

The headphones both are plugged to ADI-2 directly.


An analog switchbox shortens the signal path, makes full use of ADI-2’s converter quality – so
Option Passive Analog Switchbox:

ADI-2 Pro‘s rear analog Line Output goes to the switchbox.
The passive switchbox cares for monitor switching / selection.
ADI-2 controls volume of both monitor pairs.

The headphones again are both plugged to ADI-2 directly.


ADI-2 Pro‘s digital outputs are not used this time, there‘s no destination where it‘s content could be used.

Thank you kaiS for your very helpful response and for explaining things so that I am much clearer re. how to hook things up. 

It would seem that both you and ramses concur and have both advised that the Audio Interface route is the best starting point.  I therefore, would be unwise to dismiss these informed opinions and think that is the option I will go with.  Thank you once again, you have really helped to clear up any confusion.