1 Topic by electdaw (edited by electdaw 2023-10-06 19:16:05)

  • Registered: 2023-10-04
  • Posts: 8

Topic: Solutions to RME PCIe Noise Issues!

Regarding Interference noise on the headphone out (and also RCA but not so noticeable) PCIe AIO and some PCI 9632 systems too.

This is a long standing issue for many people, i see posts as far back as 2009!!

Solutions for RME, some are expensive some 'very cheap' but effective:

1. suggest a list of PSU and motherboards that are known to work well with internal pci/pci-e cards that use unbalanced circuitry. A list for customers who are building new systems and will want the headphone out and RCA to work excellently, as per the specification signal to noise claims...

2. RME join forces with a popular manufacture like corsair or gigabyte to produce Audiophile PC combos, that work with RME and any other internal PCI and PCIe cards for that matter.

3. RME makes their own PSU.


Very Cheap>>

4. Manufacture a non conductive, clear/transparent sticky tape patch ,so to separate the PC Earthed chassis from the AIO  (and also 9632) A sticky patch that can be applied and taken off and re-applied, if need be with the RME logo on it!!  (cost approx 1 euro to make, sell for 5 euros!!)

5.Manufacture a non conductive pci-e slot bracket, to replace the metal one, so to separate the PC Earthed chassis from the AIO. again with the RME logo on it. (cost approx 3 euro sell for 10 euro)

6. Do a later revision of the AIO and add a chassis earth/ground lift switch!! .

if you can't do any of this,  then please RME....

7. change the wording in your PDF to state "may have interference noise on headphone out. Cannot guarantee clean signal. With reasons why and possible fixes for the end user to try themselves. Like add insulation tape around the slot.

8. Maybe do not sell internal cards with a headphone out or even RCA with inaccurate signal to noise claims. ATX systems vary 'Dramatically';

Allot of people have yet to find out they have a similar issue. They simply have not tested their gear correctly!!  Would a solution draw to much attention?  is this part of the problem?

If the solution is cheap, it should not matter!   RME does not make the PSU or motherboards themselves they cannot be blamed for this.  'but' they do make professional cards that are meant to work inside these environments.

Is it the fear that the cost of a piece of thin acrylic or silicone or other plastic material to create the needed insulation is going to be too expensive? Maybe RME have sold millions of these cards? And it is just not feasible?

i think many of us would pay 10 x the cost to cover any costs to RME. (10 euro for a thin .3mm RME sticker?) To help RME to say "thank you!!"

How about a kick starter? A fund raiser to help out ? Maybe sound on sound magazine and other  audio engineering magazines and websites would help out and get on board if the cost is too high Or a pre order?

But, of course, some customers would expect the solution for free.  minus postage costs.

I am not an expert, or good with business strategy, but there are solutions!!

Having to put insulation tape all over the slot of a 500 Euro card is not Professional. it is very poor and devalues the card! Surly this is not beneficial to anyone?

A simple sticker, a sock /gasket/ cover made of plastic or thin silicone with a Proud ' RME ' Logo on it, is a far more professional and better solution!

And I would pay for that! I think most people would like the option, at least.

I love RME gear and will continue to use RME even if a solution is not implemented!!

This post is a result of allot of stress, trying to find an answer as I have two AIO cards here with me
that are devalued since i found this issue.

I really hope some of the pain I have been though to get to this point helps someone, at some point!!

Thank you for reading.

2 Reply by SSC. (edited by SSC. 2023-10-07 11:15:42)

  • SSC.
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Re: Solutions to RME PCIe Noise Issues!

electdaw wrote:

Regarding Interference noise on the headphone out (and also RCA but not so noticeable) PCIe AIO and some PCI 9632 systems too.

RME does not make the PSU or motherboards themselves they cannot be blamed for this.  'but' they do make professional cards that are meant to work inside these environments.

Having to put insulation tape all over the slot of a 500 Euro card is not Professional. it is very poor and devalues the card! Surly this is not beneficial to anyone?

I love RME gear and will continue to use RME even if a solution is not implemented!!

Thank you for reading.

Good points and agree. I love RME!

From researching around online, it seems to be a problem for quite a few peope, not just one or two, I did wonder if it's some sort of legislation, certain country laws ect why RME/compaines can't do, inclued, fix ect certain things.

3 Reply by electdaw (edited by electdaw 2023-10-07 21:51:48)

  • Registered: 2023-10-04
  • Posts: 8

Re: Solutions to RME PCIe Noise Issues!

SSC. wrote:
electdaw wrote:

Regarding Interference noise on the headphone out (and also RCA but not so noticeable) PCIe AIO and some PCI 9632 systems too.

RME does not make the PSU or motherboards themselves they cannot be blamed for this.  'but' they do make professional cards that are meant to work inside these environments.

Having to put insulation tape all over the slot of a 500 Euro card is not Professional. it is very poor and devalues the card! Surly this is not beneficial to anyone?

I love RME gear and will continue to use RME even if a solution is not implemented!!

Thank you for reading.

Good points and agree. I love RME!

From researching around online, it seems to be a problem for quite a few peope, not just one or two, I did wonder if it's some sort of legislation, certain country laws ect why RME/compaines can't do, inclued, fix ect certain things.


Thank you for your reply.

I really like the quick fix= The RME sticker solution.

A nice, neat clear RME sticker that we users simply peel off and stick onto the card's PCI-e slot bracket. 

It is very simple to explain to RME users that although ATX is a standard, there are still variations in the electronics, from various manufacturers, even with the higher price range components such as PSU's and Motherboards. And these variations can influence the unbalanced outputs, and create noise/interference, simple. not RME's fault, in that regard!

Perhaps a chassis ground lift switch would have been a cheap and perfect solution on a revision? Or is there a law to stop this, I am unsure?

However, we are in a situation where these are not options or features on any of the versions/designs over the years. even on the PRO version!!

So if the sticker option breaks a European law, there is still a way to produce a bracket to replace the one already on the AIO.
it can still be metal if that is important? But have an insulating gasket/seal to prevent the connection of chassis ground to the card itself (with the black ground of the PSU still connected, of course). it might cost 3 euro to make a new bracket. but if it maintains the cards value I would buy that, I would pay 10 euro. right? Whatever RME decide to be a good price..

There are many ways around this. The sticker idea is obviously the cheapest! And if made of clear plastic with a nice RME logo on it, would maintain the value of the card. A note could also be included in the PDF as to what this is all about!! so it is all official!

Here's the thing.  This effects everyone who owns an AIO!! Even if you do not use the headphones or RCA. even if you are having no problems right now and are having a great time!!

If you wish to sell your card and then upgrade to a newer RME product later on.

if you sell the AIO , you may find 2 months or so down the line a " Refund now!" email coming your way!!

So, although people may say:

I'm having no issues!! I don't care!!
use the Spdfi out!!
pay more, get the balanced breakout... and buy a balanced receiver and plug your headphone into that!
wear rubber shoes!
keep changing your ATX parts until you have success (costing maybe thousands and weeks if not months of time!!)

Or some other response, we have seen in the past 15 years, where the poor, unhappy RME user gives up all hope and loses energy to fight and just plugs their headphones into their amplifier or mixer headphone output or maybe has to buy an external SPDIF DAC> headphone amp. Or maybe even buys a PRO version AIO hoping the issue will be gone and then be stuck with 2 x AIO cards and also frightened to sell either of them in case of a refund request!!  Yes this has happened to users!

So when it comes to sell 'your' card,  it is 'fingers crossed' time!

You could find a 200 > 400 euro refund request coming your way in 2-3 months time.

This could put an RME user into an bankster overdraft or heaven forbid  an un-arranged overdraft? ( with multiple fees)

Very Dangerous to sell an AIO!!

That is why I am fighting for every AIO owner right now and lets also hope for our beloved  RME's reputation. I hope these efforts will make us all join together. Even if it costs us a few euros each, and get this issue solved once and for all!!

  • SSC.
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Re: Solutions to RME PCIe Noise Issues!

Great idea on some sort of plastic sleeve or sticker type cover. I for one would buy if avaliable!

I have wondered how cool a ground switch would of been but like you, not sure if there are rules there or how hard of a job fitting in the design, budget ect and thought maybe RME have thought of that before?

I 100% know what you mean about re sale. I had to sell my old AIO to help pay off towards the cost of my new AIO Pro. I was honest in the sale about the problems, luckily the buyer was really honest too!

Because I have spent so long trying to problem solve over the years, I gave up on trying to solve the headphones out issue. When I have asked a few places for help in the past, I got the same answers, must be a grounding issue my end or buy a nice USB intereface instead. I won't be going that route as the AIO/AIO Pro fits my needs and workflow perfect!


Cheers for the hard work and posting your findings electdaw!

  • vinark
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Re: Solutions to RME PCIe Noise Issues!

I am no expert, but if you could start the PSU outside a case, nothing connected, should there be 0 volts between PSU case and black wire ground? Obviously this is not the case with this issue. And should connecting mains ground/earth to both the case and the black wire fix it? Not that you should try without knowing of course. Maybe @MC could shed some light on this? Or maybe point in the direction on some articles?
I am leaning toward it has to do with switching power supplies and floating earth.
Cheers

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

6 Reply by SSC. (edited by SSC. 2023-10-08 12:26:25)

  • SSC.
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Re: Solutions to RME PCIe Noise Issues!

I am no way a technical head, far from it, so always appreciate people posting their findings on sites like this.

It is a tough one on both sides, RME and the user as it seems a bit like 50/50 whever you have a fully 100% compatible system. I guess they have been getting more postive reports on the new AIO Pro. Just a shame for people who still are getting problems.

I might give the tape, plastic isolation a go, but my setups all synced and running fine, minus the on going headphone outs problem. I'm not really up for the risk of messing anything up. I guess me going for the PRO a few weeks back was my fault as I knew there was a chance I would get the same problem/s I did with my AIO, but I seriously do love the AIO and RME. Rock solid performance!

Interested to see if anyone from RME jumps in with some input.

  • vinark
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Re: Solutions to RME PCIe Noise Issues!

I can not see how isolating the PCIe bracket can mess things up. You could maybe even remove the bracket from the card if it is simply screwed on to the dsub connectors and leave it hanging in the PCIe slot and test if that cures it. If yes you can attempt isolating.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

8 Reply by electdaw (edited by electdaw 2023-10-08 21:16:45)

  • Registered: 2023-10-04
  • Posts: 8

Re: Solutions to RME PCIe Noise Issues!

vinark wrote:

I can not see how isolating the PCIe bracket can mess things up. You could maybe even remove the bracket from the card if it is simply screwed on to the dsub connectors and leave it hanging in the PCIe slot and test if that cures it. If yes you can attempt isolating.

A user should not have to do this to their new Pro card unless there are clear guidlines from RME to do so.

An RME solution would be the best option for for all.

There are companies that specialise in making stickers for unusually shaped mountain bike parts, frames and I imagine they would be happy to help out.

Or a 3d printed slot design. approved and uploaded by RME, with the logo to show it is official! Then we can buy, have it printed and install at home with clear RME guidelines (anti static and so forth). ( RME could also sell a batch from thier site and/or a few select retailers)

Can't get much cheaper than that.

  • Registered: 2023-11-10
  • Posts: 1

Re: Solutions to RME PCIe Noise Issues!

I used tape on PCI bracket, solved noise issue

But I am wondering about the PC case, it's a Fractal Design with heavy paint and quick lock features (no screws), there is no ground continuity at all. Maybe it's where the ground problem come from? As it, the ground is connected only at the PCI bay from PSU through motherboard power cable, even motherboard screws don't make connection. Each case panel is electrically isolated...