• Registered: 2023-10-13
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Topic: UCXii adding I/O via ADAT

I would like to add more ins/outs to my UCXii, via ADAT to use with outboard FX.

I was thinking of purchasing a second hand Fireface 800. Would I be able to utilise all 8 ins and 8 outs, and would this change if I increase sample rate from 48khz to 96khz?

Is there a better or cheaper option to increase my I/O? I don't need additional mic pres, only line ins/outs. I have read also that channels reduce if receiving a double speed signal. How can I ensure the unit I obtain is not running ADAT at double speed?

Apologies for the basic questions, I have never used ADAT before! Thank you in advance.

2 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2023-11-03 11:13:26)

  • waedi
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Re: UCXii adding I/O via ADAT

Yes, by changing the sample rate from 48 to 96 kHz the channels are only 4 ins and outs instead of 8.
That is double speed.
As long the external Adat unit is set to 44.1 or 48 kHz you have single speed and 8 channels,
The Behringer Ada8200 is a good low-budget unit for your demand.
https://www.thomann.de/de/behringer_ada … tm?ref=wil

M1-Sonoma, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

3 Reply by Kubrak (edited by Kubrak 2023-11-03 13:17:44)

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Re: UCXii adding I/O via ADAT

You also could use FF UC/UCX (maybe also  FF 400, I have not checked),  if you do not mind to have two chanels unbalanced, or if 6 ballanced would do.

If using USB (not for FF 400) you could also attach it to computer directly and you would have 8 more analog channels even on 96k.  The only drawback would be that the would be independent in TotalMix. But still, you could route ADAT channels also to UCXII, and have them in TM (either all 8 at 44/48k or selected 4 in 96k).

DAW would see the both interfaces as one.

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Re: UCXii adding I/O via ADAT

I'll disregard the Behringer as it has the inputs on the front which would not suit connecting to the outboard in my rack.

I think it makes sense economically (and aesthetically!) to go for a second hand FF800 which appear to sell for not much more second hand.

Thanks again, but still open to guidance on alternative suitable units.

  • Registered: 2016-06-14
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Re: UCXii adding I/O via ADAT

Be aware you have to configure the FF800 first before you can use it as a standalone converter. So you will need the firewire connection to a computer at least once!
It’s

FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
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Re: UCXii adding I/O via ADAT

oli77sch wrote:

Be aware you have to configure the FF800 first before you can use it as a standalone converter. So you will need the firewire connection to a computer at least once!
It’s

Ah, thanks for the heads up...no firewire on my laptop! The search resumes.

  • Kubrak
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Re: UCXii adding I/O via ADAT

FF UC or UCX? It may be even cheaper than FF 800.

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Re: UCXii adding I/O via ADAT

Used ADI-8 (older models)? Ferrofish Pulse?

FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
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  • cupakm
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Re: UCXii adding I/O via ADAT

Audient EVO SP8 - on the budget side, but pretty decent. I guess it can bypass mic pres.

Btw this topic is the very reason I miss OctaMic XTCs a lot, with their ins on the back.

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10 Reply by bobeschism (edited by bobeschism 2023-11-04 15:23:59)

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Re: UCXii adding I/O via ADAT

cupakm wrote:

Audient EVO SP8 - on the budget side, but pretty decent. I guess it can bypass mic pres.

SP8 pres can't be bypassed - I checked with Audient earlier this year before I bought the UCXII.

Going back to the FF800 - if I had access to a friend's PC with firewire, could I just install the drivers for the FF800, set it to 48khz and the clock mode to AutoSync...(anything else I would have to set?), and then bring it back to my set up? I realise this would be pretty inflexible if I wanted to change anything in the future, but could I just set and forget?

Would I be able to changing buffer size on my machine without having any detrimental impact?

11 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2023-11-04 18:43:39)

  • waedi
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Re: UCXii adding I/O via ADAT

When you use the FF800 as standalone converter the buffersize in the computewr will not affect the FF800.
The routing is also to do in the other computer in Totalmix, route every Adat input to an analog output and every analog input to an Adat output.
Save setting into device.
Then it is ready.
Clock-mode external Adat optical.

M1-Sonoma, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • ramses
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Re: UCXii adding I/O via ADAT

oli77sch wrote:

Used ADI-8 (older models)? Ferrofish Pulse?

He has an UCX II with 1x ADAT I/O.
Ferrofish Pulse would need 2x ADAT I/O, because it has 16 analog ports.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

13 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2023-11-04 20:30:50)

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Re: UCXii adding I/O via ADAT

bobeschism wrote:

I'll disregard the Behringer as it has the inputs on the front which would not suit connecting to the outboard in my rack.

I think it makes sense economically (and aesthetically!) to go for a second hand FF800 which appear to sell for not much more second hand.

Thanks again, but still open to guidance on alternative suitable units.

With 8 short XLR cables the front inputs could get accessable from back side https://www.thomann.de/de/pro_snake_tpm_05.htm
The rack just need a small space of the thikness of the cable, fix installation

M1-Sonoma, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
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Re: UCXii adding I/O via ADAT

waedi wrote:

When you use the FF800 as standalone converter the buffersize in the computewr will not affect the FF800.
The routing is also to do in the other computer in Totalmix, route every Adat input to an analog output and every analog input to an Adat output.
Save setting into device.
Then it is ready.
Clock-mode external Adat optical.

Hello, setting up a UCX2, Stand alone Adat FF400. So route output channels via 1 to 1 submix's for the inputs analog and adat.
Output 7/8 is the headphone so the "Main" output channel is the submix for adat 7/8 input right?

Save state in settings but do I need to save totalmix too?

Thanks
Eden

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Re: UCXii adding I/O via ADAT

edenrausch wrote:

Save state in settings but do I need to save totalmix too?

Yes, you will need to separately flash the Totalmix settings/routings (in the Options menu IIRC).

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

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  • Registered: 2023-10-13
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Re: UCXii adding I/O via ADAT

Coming back to this a few months later! I'm looking at the UC now as a cost effective way to expand the I/O.

Kubrak wrote:

You also could use FF UC/UCX (maybe also  FF 400, I have not checked),  if you do not mind to have two chanels unbalanced, or if 6 ballanced would do.

If using USB (not for FF 400) you could also attach it to computer directly and you would have 8 more analog channels even on 96k.  The only drawback would be that the would be independent in TotalMix.

So, attach both the UC and the UCXii via USB at the same time, but...do you mean there would be 2 separate TotalMix layouts, as opposed to connecting via ADAT and seeing both in a single TM layout?

If I go the ADT route, is it simply a case of setting UCXii as clock master and UC as clock slave. Would I also need Wordclock cable?

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Re: UCXii adding I/O via ADAT

bobeschism wrote:

So, attach both the UC and the UCXii via USB at the same time, but...do you mean there would be 2 separate TotalMix layouts, as opposed to connecting via ADAT and seeing both in a single TM layout?

If I go the ADT route, is it simply a case of setting UCXii as clock master and UC as clock slave. Would I also need Wordclock cable?

Yes, there are always separate Totalmix windows for each device. Totalmix runs on the interface hardware (DSP) itself.

After setting it up properly, the second interface (UC) in standalone mode acts like every other ADAT AD/DA converter. It’s not 'seen' in Totalmix. There you always have the ADAT channels, regardless if such hardware is connected to the main interface or not.

ADAT carries the clock signal (in same direction as audio signal), no need for a word clock cable.

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  • Kubrak
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Re: UCXii adding I/O via ADAT

So to synchronize clock one must interconnect master's ADATout and slave's ADATin. No need for WC, unless slave does not have ADATin, like certain mic preamps, say OctaMic.

19 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2024-04-04 08:42:10)

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Re: UCXii adding I/O via ADAT

Some additions to this topic:

[Windows] regarding UC and UCX II in parallel, possible as they use the same driver.

Note: as the converter latency differs between the two units, expect a little time offset in tracks:
UC:     43.2/28   (AD/DA) samples = 0.98/0.63ms @44.1 kHz
UCX II:  5  /  5.8 (AD/DA) samples= 0.11/0.13ms @44.1 kHz
So, when recording, 43.2-5 = 38.2 samples = 0.87ms @44.1 kHz

When connecting stereo devices to your setup via analog ports, then take care, to use ports of the same device; otherwise you would get this offset between stereo channels (to be avoided).

[Windows/ASIO] during operation you have to ensure in the driver settings, that both units are set to use the same ASIO buffer size otherwise these offsets will become much higher (as the latency over USB is (and can become much) higher compared to converter latency).

UCX II with the FS should be clock master as it has the more precise clock.

For clock synchronization, I would use the coax. SPDIF port instead of the ADAT port for two reasons:
1. This leaves the ADAT ports of both units free to connect other gear in the future, be it preamps or AD/DA converter.
2. SPDIF (2ch protocol) allows for sample rates up to 192 kHz, where the other side can clearly detect the clock.
With ADAT this is not possible, as the higher bandwidth demands for double and quad speed are delivered by channel multiplexing, not by using a higher clock rate. When ADAT protocol with channel multiplexing is in use, the clock slave can't detect whether this is 44.1, 88.2 or 176.4 kHz. Its possible to use, but requires manual adjustments, the clock won't follow automatically.

Operation of TM FX: you can choose between opening two TM FX Windows, one for each unit.
The alternative is to switch between UCX II and UC.
In the upper-right area, there is a pull down menu where you can select the unit (UCX II or UC).

[And if you want to get a little more out of the setup...]

DURec as backup recording

If you want to use DURec as backup recording then this is also possible for a few channels of the UC when connecting the UC via ADAT and coax. SPDIF.
Here the max amount of channels which are possible to transfer depending on the sample rate being in use:

10 ch (8 via ADAT + 2 via coax SPDIF) @single speed
  6 ch (4 via ADAT + 2 via coax SPDIF) @double speed
  4 ch (2 via ADAT + 2 via coax SPDIF) @quad speed

                                                PC
                                                  | USB
                   +----------------------------------------------------+
                   |                                                                   |
               [master]                                                       [slave]
               UCX II---SPDIF(c)-----clock sync--->SPDIF(c)---UC
For DURec :    \                                                               /
                       \---ADAT IN<-----8/4/2ch-----ADAT OUT---/
                        \---SPDIF(c)<-----2ch---------SPDIF(c)---/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: UCXii adding I/O via ADAT

Thank you everyone. All very useful info.