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RME User Forum → TotalMix FX → Room EQ with Linkwitz-Riley filters
Hi, is there any chance that the Room EQ inside Totalmix gets a 24db/Octave Linkwitz-Riley High and Low pass filter option for easy integration between speakers and subs?
Thanks
You can easily do this right now already. High pass and Low pass are 12 dB/oct, so simply acitvate two of them at the same time (band 1 and 3 of the standard PEQ, or band 1 and 8 or 9, or band 8 and 9 of the Room EQ). Set sub and satellite output to the exact same frequency values, one with 2 x high pass and one with 2 x low pass. Use Q 0.7 in all. Finally invert the phase of the satellite output, as otherwise the sum of both will not be linear.
You can easily do this right now already. High pass and Low pass are 12 dB/oct, so simply acitvate two of them at the same time (band 1 and 3 of the standard PEQ, or band 1 and 8 or 9, or band 8 and 9 of the Room EQ). Set sub and satellite output to the exact same frequency values, one with 2 x high pass and one with 2 x low pass. Use Q 0.7 in all. Finally invert the phase of the satellite output, as otherwise the sum of both will not be linear.
Thanks for the answer, I have an Babyface Pro FS right now, I was interested in knowing this before upgrading to UCX II.
After using that configuration how many parametric bands would be left for each channel? Thanks
You have 3+9, need 2 of them as 24 dB/oct crossover filter, so 10 remain.
You have 3+9, need 2 of them as 24 dB/oct crossover filter, so 10 remain.
Nice, thanks
PD: a feature with just a dropdown menu to select LR 24 would be much easier, just disable another band, but it is nice to know that it can be done
is this generally the way to go for Bass Management? Using two for 24dB/Oct rather than one with 12dB/Oct?
I am currently running my speakers through the Sub which does the Bass Management (but it's limited to 6 satellites...), so I am looking into doing it with Total Mix instead, to include more speakers.
Finally invert the phase of the satellite output, as otherwise the sum of both will not be linear.
Could you elaborate why?
And is this something to do additionally to setting the phase switch on the sub and the delay in room eq?
You can easily do this right now already. High pass and Low pass are 12 dB/oct, so simply acitvate two of them at the same time (band 1 and 3 of the standard PEQ, or band 1 and 8 or 9, or band 8 and 9 of the Room EQ). Set sub and satellite output to the exact same frequency values, one with 2 x high pass and one with 2 x low pass. Use Q 0.7 in all. Finally invert the phase of the satellite output, as otherwise the sum of both will not be linear.
I don't really understand this. I have a Madiface XT (no room EQ) and with the PEQ these are the options I see:
1) The Lowcut on the satellites can be set in the lower left of the EQ tab with the "LC" option and it can be set to 24db per octave. So, why would I want to use to bands here? Also, there is no low-cut on band 1. There is just a low shelf.
2) For the subwoofer channel I see only the option of a high cut on band 3 of the PEQ. Band 1 and 2 cannot be set to a low cut. Optically, the slope of the curve looks pretty much identical to the LC, so, pretty much like 24db per octave as well.
Can someone explain in more detail how to set this up correctly?
MC wrote:Finally invert the phase of the satellite output, as otherwise the sum of both will not be linear.
Could you elaborate why?
And is this something to do additionally to setting the phase switch on the sub and the delay in room eq?
Yeah, I also don't get that!
I don't really understand this. I have a Madiface XT (no room EQ)
Then my text does not apply to you.
and with the PEQ these are the options I see:
1) The Lowcut on the satellites can be set in the lower left of the EQ tab with the "LC" option and it can be set to 24db per octave.
Post 1:
> 24db/Octave Linkwitz-Riley High and Low pass filter
The extra PEQ Low Cut can not be used to build proper Linkwitz Riley filter banks.
Regarding crossovers and phase - just Google it. The web is full of examples and explanations about speaker crossover circuits, and why some of the spekers sometimes need to be reversed in polarity.
Then my text does not apply to you.
Does not apply to me means I cannot do a proper crossover filtering with Totalmix FX on the madiface XT or I can just use LC on the sub and high cut on band 3 for the satellite speakers just as I described?
Depends on what you define as proper. For me integration of subs is easy/not critical, and does not require schoolbook rules to work and sound good. Others may feel differently.
Thanks! Well, I am not sure, but I certainly want to be able to control things like delay, EQ, Phase and crossover per channel. Up until now, I thought I might be able to do everything without any additional investments as the EQing and also parts of the the delay can be handled by Neumann KH DSP monitors. However, there are still things like the bass management and delaying of an additional (non-Neumann) Subwoofer, which is why I now bought the Audient Oria interface. This is ticking all the boxes and it will also be able to integrate into an RME system. Unfortunately, the two ADAT inputs limit it to 48kHz which is fine for me for now. But it seems quite future proof with the Dante option. That is why I bought it as a monitor controller. However, I hope that RME is going to come up with a solution like this in the future! It would be very welcome and probably a success as more and more people seem committed to equip the studios with Atmos these days.
Reading your posts, I don’t get what your problem is at all?
Except of the delay, you already can realize all the things you mentioned for every individual channel like needed in a 7.4.1 setup.
I mean-You have a 3 band eq plus LC for every single mono Channel?
If the delay thing is your show stopper - TM can be used to explore the features by adding an offline unit. Free, as a try before buy - just, to check whats possible.
So you would probably notice by yourself that you would need a unit which supports RoomEQ for the delay thing. Additionally, most people read the specs and manuals before making a decision which hardware fits their needs.
I don't have any problem ... All I have been doing here is to explore possibilities with the hardware I already have to create an Atmos setup. And ... no! I did never buy that hardware for the currently planned setup. That is just an assumption you wrongly made. And I found out that a lot is indeed possible with total mix FX, however, not everything! And on top some things are just a little to much of a hack for me to become the heart of my audio playback system. I want to keep things simple here as far as possible.
So, I decided that this is to much compromises and that is why I opted for the one box that does everything I need (and more) in a much more streamlined way.
Regarding your hint with using external hardware for the delay: yes, I have explored the possibility. But this is what I mean by compromises: adding different pieces of gear makes the system much less fail proof and less easy to detect problems. Further, I remember the last time I looked for an external delay unit and none of them were fitting the requirements. They all add additional AD/DA conversion (at least I couldn't find an all digital unit ...), add additional latency to the whole chain and for an Atmos system your need multiple units to have enough channels.
No need to get worked up about my decisions. After all, you don't really know everything about my requirements and thought process and in the end it does not affect your life at all, so, I don't really get it.
RME User Forum → TotalMix FX → Room EQ with Linkwitz-Riley filters
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