Topic: Split my AES out signal

Hey all,

Just got a Fireface UFX iii and am planning my new environment around it. I’m beyond impressed so far, I can’t wait to get everything up and running.

The digital I/O opens up new routing options for me. And I’m hoping I can really maximize my usage of it. Hence my question:

Is there an external device than can take the “stereo” AES signal, and give me 2 spdif outputs, one with the “L” data and one with the “R” data? The less frills the better, ideally just the three connectors mentioned (coax spdif hopefully).

My goal is to have the 2 channels of AES output each act as a send to an external FX unit that has 2 coaxial spdif inputs. Even though the FX unit can process stereo I plan to have the 2 sends be in mono.

I’ve seen similar questions asked many times but no answers that have pointed me towards a device. I can’t add a computer to my setup to accomplish this routing, it must be a standalone device.

If I can’t find the right device I’ll just go another route. But if I could accomplish this in a streamlined manner with the connections mentioned above I would be very happy.


Thanks!

2 (edited by ramses 2024-02-25 10:10:25)

Re: Split my AES out signal

Which external FX unit is this? Sure that it has two SPDIF inputs (and outputs for the wet signal).
Or is it simply an analog input and output (L and R) using Cinch?
So that you think wrongly, you would need SPDIF L and SPDIF R separately? I never heard of such a setup.
No FX unit would be built to have separate SPDIF L and SPDIF R inputs because SPDIF like AES, is always a 2ch stereo signal.

If digital is too "special", can't you connect it analog?
I am connecting two Lexicon PCM (81 and 91) this way to my UFX III.

You would need something like an AES Splitter.
This one I used for my Geithain Monitors RL906D when I connected them via AES using a RayDAT.
https://www.thomann.de/de/mutec_mc_11_a … verter.htm

There are also cheaper passive AES splitter available, but I can't tell you about the quality, maybe ok for not too long cables.

EDIT: next time, please provide the name of the devices in this setup directly so that the situation becomes clear. It is always a waste of time having to guess what the situation might be. Things are not always clear if you do not sit in front of the devices.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Split my AES out signal

That makes no sense to me.
Both AES and SPDIF are two-channel protocols, mostly used for stereo signals.
So how should the original signal coming from AES be splitted? On SPDIF 1 only the first channel ('left') and on SPDIF 2 only channel 2 ('right')? And the fx processor can handle this? Input from two SPDIF connections at the same time? I have my doubts, because in fact these would be four channels at the same time, two of them without any signal but technically still there.

FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

Re: Split my AES out signal

Although all the pertinent information was supplied, the two of you do not understand the situation and I’m moving past your confused and unhelpful responses.

I used “L” “R” and “stereo” as shorthand. I don’t like listing every possible detail when I post a question. I’m a knowledgeable professional, and among my peers I don’t feel the need to explicitly explain every detail. It’s super annoying to have some guy accuse me of plugging digital coax cables into RCA analog because he has poor reading comprehension.

To help you understand:

I have and API A2D connected to my Fireface’s AES in. In Totalmix I unlinked the two AES channels and renamed them from “AES L” to “guitar,” and “AES R” to “bass.” They are now two separate entities, not a single stereo entity. Splitting AES going IN to my Fireface is easy and seamless. Are you with me?

Now in Totalmix I have unlinked the AES out, renaming “AES L” to “fx send 1” and “AES R” to “fx send 2.” Now they are treated as totally separate entities in Totalmix. But alas, they are still joined together on a single AES cable. Does that make sense to you?

I would like to have those two DIFFERENT signals go to two DIFFERENT spdif inputs. The fact that the two spdif inputs are on the same effects unit (as I mentioned originally) seems to be a brain melter. No, I’m not hooking up digital coax to analog RCA. Yes, that’s a whopping four channels of digital input on one machine, can you believe it? Yes, I’m feeding a mono signal to a stereo effects unit. In fact I’m doing it twice.

Why do you need to know what effect unit? I told you it has 2 spdif ins, what don’t you understand? Do you think it has two redundant spdifs routed to the same place? Your salty reaction accusing me of wasting time and all sorts of weird nonsense is getting pushed aside.

If someone both understands the question and has an answer, I’d love to hear it. If you don’t maybe just sit this one out.

For example, a second Fireface could accomplish this. Major overkill obviously. But only those three ports would be operating. Clean, efficient, smooth.

And I could do it from my current Fireface if I wanted to eat up 2 ADAT ports, which I don’t .

Thanks in advance!!

5 (edited by waedi 2024-02-25 16:26:22)

Re: Split my AES out signal

This box says it can do what you want :

in the Thomann search field typing AES splitter

https://www.thomann.de/de/mutec_mc_11_a … verter.htm

https://i.ibb.co/SdbVpWP/Bildschirmfoto-2024-02-25-um-16-20-47.png

M1-Sonoma, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: Split my AES out signal

Waedi,

Awesome! Thank you, that looks perfect. I didn’t see that on the search I conducted before posting here.

Mission accomplished. I call that a great use of an AES out port, and now I’m cutting extraneous digital converters from my signal flow. One of the many big wins the Fireface is handing to me!

Many thanks again

Re: Split my AES out signal

Because I'm curious about everything : what effect unit is this ?

M1-Sonoma, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: Split my AES out signal

Thanks for your interest!

Lexicon MX400 for live effects. I love the midi control and now I’m excited to see how those spdifs sound. I have one hardwired to two synths in my live room.

After wrapping my head around what the UFX reverb/delay channel is, I decided I need a bit more. I like a different verbs on the vox and snare, as one example. Buying a second MX400 to rack up with the Fireface seems like a great move.

I’m first trying to design this so it can go CC and do most of what I want. I’m interested in VST playback for effects too. But one step at a time. I’d love to pick some brains about Liveprofessor and other options elsewhere on this forum.

9 (edited by waedi 2024-02-25 17:05:54)

Re: Split my AES out signal

With the AES splitter you split the the stereo signal into two mono signals left and right.
The inputs of the Lexicon are two SPDIF stereo A and B (dual stereo effect )
I think you don't need this splitter device, the Lexicon can handle two different stereo signals thru two different effects.
A hall and a delay on different outputs.
But with that splitter device you can send two different mono signals and get two different stereo returns, thats great.
For live playing this Lexicon is an excellent solution.
VST effects will work too depending on the complexity it can induce too much latency.

M1-Sonoma, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

Re: Split my AES out signal

If it is possible to select wich input an effect uses,EG. spdif 1L or 1R or 2L or 2R (my yamaha can albeit with one spdif and 1stereo analog in) you could just make a splitter and feed both spdif the same stereo signal. If not disregard.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

Re: Split my AES out signal

Stormy weather coming up…?
In short:
Ramses already posted the link to the mutec splitter in his first reply (post nr. 2)
Your question…

ELZ wrote:

Is there an external device than can take the “stereo” AES signal, and give me 2 spdif outputs, one with the “L” data and one with the “R” data? The less frills the better, ideally just the three connectors mentioned (coax spdif hopefully).

… was it which let me give the reply in post nr. 3. It simply was not clear enough, that’s why I asked back some details about how exactly the splitting should work to fit your needs. It makes a huge difference to have one ('left' for example) signal of two AES channels going to TWO channels of one SPDIF connection, or to only one channel (and having a second channel without signal).
Last thing before I 'sit this one out':
To me your attitude seems very aggressive, and I don’t understand why you are talking this way to people you don’t know. Ramses and myself are for sure willing to help and both we are experienced RME users (have a look to the number of posts we have). And it is simply much easier to do so when one knows more details. That’s why ramses asked for the efx processor model you have.

FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

12

Re: Split my AES out signal

More great feedback, thank you.

I recently learned that spdif and AES are 100% compatible on RME devices. Short cable runs can be made at home by simply soldering RCA and XLR connections together. So getting a single stereo signal to one of the Lexicon’s spdif ports is easy.

But I suppose I didn’t look into whether the Lexicon itself can do the splitting. I am menu diving now…

In system menu “input source a” and “input source b” each have 3 options: analog mono L, analog stereo, and “dig no lock.” (Note this is a unit hooked up analog. This is not the future unit I will wire up digitally.) The analog connectors it refers to are in the back in two pairs, A and B. I can feed A with either the left channel, or L and R of the analog A input section. Can’t feed B with anything from A analog input section. I assume spdif will act the same.

Seems like it’ll need clock sync to display all the input options.

13 (edited by oli77sch 2024-02-25 17:50:28)

Re: Split my AES out signal

ELZ wrote:

But I suppose I didn’t look into whether the Lexicon itself can do the splitting. I am menu diving now…
.

It’s exactly why I asked 'the fx processor can handle this'? in my first reply.

FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

14

Re: Split my AES out signal

My apologies for missing that he posted that in his reply. I was thrown off by condescending comments about how digital is “too special” for me and I should just go analog. 

All the info was available in my first post. That’s all you need to know. Being told I’m wasting your time is annoying. Do you understand that? Asking me if I’m plugging digital coax into RCA is annoying. You were unable to understand my post, and that’s fine. I have no desire to talk to you about it any more.

15 (edited by oli77sch 2024-02-25 20:25:51)

Re: Split my AES out signal

ELZ wrote:

You were unable to understand my post

That’s simply wrong, but it’s ok…

ELZ wrote:

Being told I’m wasting your time is annoying. Do you understand that? Asking me if I’m plugging digital coax into RCA is annoying.

And that even wasn’t me, but ramses. And it clearly wasn’t meant to be annoying from him.

FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

16

Re: Split my AES out signal

Ostrich,

Yes I’m sure in your mind somewhere in your poorly parsed response you already told me to see if the lexicon can split the signal for me. All I saw was a rambling mess about how nothing makes sense to you.

Thanks for the good answers guys! I probably won’t come back because it’s the same as every other forum. Some salty dogs get it wrong and then demand they were right and just drag me down with them. Not my style.

Keep mixing I’ll see you on the other side!

Re: Split my AES out signal

Maybe you could find another way to introduce yourself in the next forum than being insulting and arrogant?

FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

18 (edited by ramses 2024-02-25 21:49:15)

Re: Split my AES out signal

@ELZ

There is a colorful mix of people here in the forum, and there have been cases where SPDIF and analog RCA jacks have actually been confused with each other.

Here it would have been really helpful to simply write that you want to connect an MX400, more explanation would not have been necessary.

Whether you are a professional or not doesn't really matter in this context. You asked about AES splitters and got answers.

I also don't understand what you're complaining about, you've received valid replies and haven't even read mine, by the way. Furthermore, you are getting upset about things that are not meant that way at all and take everything directly personally.

There's also no reason to talk down to other people in the forum. Nobody has done anything to you. You just seem to be taking everything the wrong way.

By the way, I was completely serious about connecting the Lexicon MX400 analog, you don't always have to connect everything digitally, the converters in your recording interface most likely have better technical specs than your Lexicon.
Nothing will deteriorate, on the contrary, you may save a lot of money because good AES splitters are not cheap.
Moreover, you do not have to take care of supported sample rates and clock synch.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

19 (edited by vinark 2024-02-25 22:17:01)

Re: Split my AES out signal

I agree fully with Ramses on the realistic option of using analogue. SOS Magazin once said that in the quest for bit perfection, it is forgotten that analogue is the perfect universal digital connection ;-) no clocking or sample rate issues.
Cheers, keep it light!

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632