1 Topic by Zsolt (edited by Zsolt 2024-03-02 18:58:09)

  • Zsolt
  • ADAT user
  • Offline
  • From: Basel
  • Registered: 2023-04-24
  • Posts: 15

Topic: Pan mutes the sound ??

Hi all
A strange behaviour is driving me crazy – But probably it is just some setting problem ?

I’m using Ableton live and UCXII.

When I connect headphones directly to the interface, then everything works fine.

With wireless headphones connected to the interface, when I turn the pan knob of any track or of the master to the right, then the signal of that track completely goes away. When I turn the pan knob to the left, then I have the same signal in both ears.

Now I could say that this is an issue of the headphones.

But it shows the exact same behaviour with an in ear monitoring system connected to that earphones output.

The output on the loudspeakers is correct.

Maybe someone has an idea what this could be? All support will greatly be appreciated.

Zsolt

2 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2024-03-02 22:10:09)

  • waedi
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Swiss Zürich
  • Registered: 2020-12-08
  • Posts: 4,525

Re: Pan mutes the sound ??

Next test I would do : try another DAW Reaper.
And also a Total Reset of Totalmix.
Did you split Totalmix channels into separate mono channels ?
I would let them all as stereo-channels.
During the issue, what is Totalmix showing ? Is the issue visible in the channel meters ?

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

3 Reply by Zsolt (edited by Zsolt 2024-03-03 11:32:22)

  • Zsolt
  • ADAT user
  • Offline
  • From: Basel
  • Registered: 2023-04-24
  • Posts: 15

Re: Pan mutes the sound ??

Thank you waedi for support.

I tried Garage Band, since I do not have reaper (yet)  - same behaviour.

Performed a total reset of totalmix and recorded on a stereo channel - same behaviour

I observe the meters in TotalMix while turning the pan knob in Ableton. Meters show what I would expect:

—signal on the left, when pan knob is turned all the way to the left - but in the headphones I hear sound on both sides, and on same full level

—and signal on the right, when pan knob is turned all the way to the right - but in the headphones I hear the sound again on both sides, but at about  -30dB

The strange thing is: This happens only when I connect wireless headphones. As I said, when I connect headphones directly to the UCXII, then everything is fine. Can’t get it. it seems to be very unlikely that two different wireless systems have exactly the same issue.


And by the way: you mentioned Reaper, and that is a marvellous invitation to go off topic. There are a number of reasons to stick to Ableton live In my case, which is live, looping, recording analog Instruments. It’s all about session view and about ClyphX Pro that lets me script actions to be triggered by a foot switch or by Push 2 to produce variety of songs structures with room to improvise. But maybe reaper provides similar functionalities meanwhile – I will have to check that out

4 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2024-03-03 17:13:54)

  • waedi
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Swiss Zürich
  • Registered: 2020-12-08
  • Posts: 4,525

Re: Pan mutes the sound ??

I mentioned Reaper for a TEST, just to see if Ableton is the issue or not.
And because Reaper is for free to evaluate as long as you want. And it's very small, the download zip is only 26MB.
you don't need to switch your DAW.

Ableton and Totalmix seems to work normal.
Your wireless headphone may be configured wrong, it seems to be set to mono ?
Sure this wireless headphone does NOT connect to the computer via bluetooth ?
Do you stick a transmitter into the headphone socket of the interface ?
What product is this ? May be the headphone signal is too powerful for this unit and itself switching to a safety mode mono somehow ?
You can try to use the line-out sockets ?

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • Zsolt
  • ADAT user
  • Offline
  • From: Basel
  • Registered: 2023-04-24
  • Posts: 15

Re: Pan mutes the sound ??

I work with Aiaiai TM-2 and AKG SST4 inear monitoring system. No - no Bluetooth

I connected AKG iem to the line-out sockets of UCXII —> and NOW it works.

My humble logic tells me, that there must be something wrong with the interface’s headphone out. But why does it work correctly then with a pair of wired earphones connected? That leaves me clueless.

  • waedi
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Swiss Zürich
  • Registered: 2020-12-08
  • Posts: 4,525

Re: Pan mutes the sound ??

Still unclear how this Aiaiai is connected to the interface...?

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • Zsolt
  • ADAT user
  • Offline
  • From: Basel
  • Registered: 2023-04-24
  • Posts: 15

Re: Pan mutes the sound ??

I used to connect the transmitters to the headphone out on the front of the interface. (Main and Click)
Now that I connect them to the jack outputs on the back - everything works fine

  • waedi
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: Swiss Zürich
  • Registered: 2020-12-08
  • Posts: 4,525

Re: Pan mutes the sound ??

Ah I see this headphone comes with a transmitter with a small headphone plug.

I remember a case where similar issue was caused by cheap headphone adapter (out of standard).

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

9 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,582

Re: Pan mutes the sound ??

Obviously we want to know what cable and conectors you used...also obviously there is an adapter in use that is not c orrect stereo TRS. Otherwise it would work like any other headphone.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Zsolt
  • ADAT user
  • Offline
  • From: Basel
  • Registered: 2023-04-24
  • Posts: 15

Re: Pan mutes the sound ??

I understand.

It is strange that both devices have cabling issues

I used to connect the Aiaiai transmitter with a 3.5 to 6.35mm adapter.
And I used to connect the AKG transmitter with 2 mono jack cables and a Y-cable-adapter 2x6.35mm female TS to 6.35mm TRS

  • Kubrak
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2023-08-03
  • Posts: 548

Re: Pan mutes the sound ??

And what about if the wireless adapter is "smart" and if does not "detect" stereo signal than automatically switches to mono mode in which L goes evenly to L and R.  If panned to R no signal in L so no signal in headphones. If panned to L everything is in L and so L and R channel has the same signal....

What does it if the PAN is only partial? Or what it does do if you send signal only to L or R and PAN is on center?

12 Reply by Zsolt (edited by Zsolt 2024-03-06 09:51:10)

  • Zsolt
  • ADAT user
  • Offline
  • From: Basel
  • Registered: 2023-04-24
  • Posts: 15

Re: Pan mutes the sound ??

I come back to the issue, although I am not stuck with it, because obviously I can connect the IEM Transmitter with plain or symmetrical jack cables to the interface. And that works perfectly.
But on the other side, I cannot really comprehend what could be wrong with the adapters (3.5 to 6.35mm Earphone adapter)

https://www.digitec.ch/de/s1/product/ug … r-20685705


@Kubrak: when I turn the pan knob to the left, absolutely nothing happens from zero to all the way down. I still can hear both channels at full volume.
When I turn the pan knob from zero to all the way to the right, then the volume on both channels continuously goes down to almost zero. 
Does this behavior tell anything to you?

  • vinark
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2009-06-05
  • Posts: 2,778

Re: Pan mutes the sound ??

I have one 3.5 to 6.35mm Earphone adapter too that does weird things, I don't remember exactly, but it was really like huh how does an adapter cause these strange things. I have many adapters from many headphones, so I just threw it away, btw it was an angled adapter, a nice and little bit expensive one.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

14 Reply by Kubrak (edited by Kubrak 2024-03-06 10:15:17)

  • Kubrak
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2023-08-03
  • Posts: 548

Re: Pan mutes the sound ??

@Zsolt
It may be that unit gets only L channel, thinks it is mono and plays L to L and R headphone, as it is more pleasant than being played only L.

If you pan towards L signal does not change because there is (wrongly) no signal on R input. If you pan to right, it gradually lowers signal in L input, so L and R signal in headphones gets quiter and quiter.

It is my guess, what may happen, based on how you describe what happens.

Maybe wrong contact in adapter? Is the jack fully inserted?

15 Reply by Zsolt (edited by Zsolt 2024-03-09 12:38:31)

  • Zsolt
  • ADAT user
  • Offline
  • From: Basel
  • Registered: 2023-04-24
  • Posts: 15

Re: Pan mutes the sound ??

Good afternoon all

And thank you all so far for the support.

I come back to this issue one more time just to get it done. I realized that using that y-cable - to go from 2 mono cables from ucxii to a small 4-channel headphone amplifier that only has a trs stereo  Input  -  messes up phasing or polarity or something. And meanwhile I picked up somewhere that those.y-cables are not designed to combine but to split anyway... So I assume that in the end it will be the best thing to get one of those headphone amplifiers with separate L–R Input jacks.

  • Kubrak
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2023-08-03
  • Posts: 548

Re: Pan mutes the sound ??

If you have used Y-cable, it could not work. And you could have damaged RME otput as you have directly interconected (shortcircuited) L and R RME output.....

You need proper cable to go from L and R mono jacks to stereo jack. One may buy or get it done one. Or I use simple combination of 2x TS jack to cinch  (also sold as stereo with 2 TS on one side and 2 cinches on other) and 2 cinch to TRS.

17 Reply by Zsolt (edited by Zsolt 2024-03-10 14:39:56)

  • Zsolt
  • ADAT user
  • Offline
  • From: Basel
  • Registered: 2023-04-24
  • Posts: 15

Re: Pan mutes the sound ??

Thank you Kubrak for the hints.I am trying to wrap my head around it - I used this

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/cyrd5so8 … m&dl=0

2 x female jack to 1 x male stereo to connect to a basic headphone amp and splitter, the Mackie HM4.

One thing is, that I do not understand why I myself was having heavy issues with sound quality while my bandmate wasn't. We both had wireless devices attached to HM4, my bandmate came with a nux B-7PSM, and I had an AKG SST4 - yet another y-cable .... I am absolutely aware now that everyone with reasonable knowledge will frown at this ....

And the other thing: would you mind to point out the spot where exactly the short circuit occurs in the y-cable, so that it might affect the ucxii in a destructive way? Or if it was too much of a hassle to explain, would you then mind to point at a resource where I could try to find out myself?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edith said I wasn't even able to tag a pic with  img html .....

  • Kubrak
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2023-08-03
  • Posts: 548

Re: Pan mutes the sound ??

@Zsolt I do not think Y-cable would damage RME interface. There may be resistors somewhere and so it is not most probably hard short circuit. Or there might be some kind of protection. It is Pro device.... Just it is not good to do that, despite what it makes.

Y cable (to be used to split signal to two headphones) is   (I will draw only one wire, but there are three.)

L F top ----------------+------------------------------- M top   
                               /      <--- short circuit L & R channel pin/wire
R F top --------------/

The same wiring for ring and sleeve.

There may be exactly same looking cable but with different wiring, that splits one stereo connector (in your case male jack - TRS) to two mono connectors (in your case female jack - TRS, but it should be TS jack or cinch and so on.)

If the Y cable you have is designed to connect two headphones to one output, it cannot be used to "fuse" two mono signals to stereo one. For that you need the cable that looks just same, but functions differently.

If your Y cable is not designed to connect two headphones to one output, then something else is wrong....