• Registered: 2021-04-07
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Topic: Disable aggregation for two RME interfaces of same driver model?

I have a Digiface USB and UFX 1 which both use the same driver model, and thus whenever I connect them both to my windows PC they combine under the same "Fireface ASIO" driver.

Unfortunately this causes my DAW application launches, samplerate changes and other operations to lag a lot, and I would actually prefer to keep the two interfaces separate. Using one for audio application A and the other for B.

Is it possible to disable this automatic "aggregation" of two interfaces that use the same driver model? (in windows 10)

2 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2024-04-06 14:10:33)

  • ramses
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Re: Disable aggregation for two RME interfaces of same driver model?

Its normal behavior.
One application can only load one audio driver.
The ASIO driver detects the interfaces which it supports.
The driver supports "multi-client" access, several applications can access the driver and thus the inputs of your recording interfaces in parallel (be it via ASIO or WDM).
Only one sample rate can be in use.

This should not cause any issue. I have a similar setup with UFX III and ADI-2 Pro FS R BE.

Might it be that you forgot to clock synchronize the devices?
Which one is master, and how does the slave get the clock from the master? Through which digital port or by Word Clock?

See also my latest blog article regarding clock synchronization for getting an overview of this topic:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ent … ios-en-de/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2021-04-07
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Re: Disable aggregation for two RME interfaces of same driver model?

ramses wrote:

Its normal behavior.
One application can only load one audio driver.
The ASIO driver detects the interfaces which it supports.
The driver supports "multi-client" access, several applications can access the driver and thus the inputs of your recording interfaces in parallel (be it via ASIO or WDM).
Only one sample rate can be in use.

This should not cause any issue. I have a similar setup with UFX III and ADI-2 Pro FS R BE.

Might it be that you forgot to clock synchronize the devices?
Which one is master, and how does the slave get the clock from the master? Through which digital port or by Word Clock?

See also my latest blog article regarding clock synchronization for getting an overview of this topic:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ent … ios-en-de/

There's no issue per se besides the slowness/lag whenever any application activates the driver, like launching an app or changing the samplerate in a DAW.

Both interfaces are synced with UFX as the master and Digiface slaved via one ADAT i/o, correctly set as the sync input in the digiface settings window.

Ramses, do you happen to know all the different driver models the RME interfaces use?

I know that the newer externals use the Madiface driver, the older stuff like UFX 1 usea the fireface driver, and I guess the internal hdspe cards have a different driver still?

  • Registered: 2021-04-07
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Re: Disable aggregation for two RME interfaces of same driver model?

Can you separate interfaces from the ASIO driver by setting one interface to class compliant mode? I haven't tried that.

  • ramses
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Re: Disable aggregation for two RME interfaces of same driver model?

In class compliant mode you have no control via TM FX, makes no sense.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

6 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2024-04-07 11:48:15)

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Re: Disable aggregation for two RME interfaces of same driver model?

anvilmusic wrote:

Ramses, do you happen to know all the different driver models the RME interfaces use?
I know that the newer externals use the Madiface driver, the older stuff like UFX 1 usea the fireface driver, and I guess the internal hdspe cards have a different driver still?

You can get this information also from the README in the driver.

From memory:

PCI/PCIe cards use the HDSPe driver:
One exception: the HDSPe MADI FX has a driver of its own with some extended features

Firewire interfaces use the firewire driver.
Thunderbolt interfaces use the thunderbolt driver (UFX+)

USB based interfaces use either the older USB or the newer MADIface driver:

  • USB driver: BBF [Pro] [FS], UC, UCX, UCX II FS, 802, 802 FS, UFX

  • MADIface driver: MADIface XT / USB / Pro, Fireface UFX+ / UFX II / UFX III, OctaMic XTC, ADI-2 Pro/AE/FS/DAC, ADI-2/4 Pro, Digiface USB / AVB / AES / Dante / Ravenna

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: Disable aggregation for two RME interfaces of same driver model?

It would be good, if one could assign position to interfaces. RME does it by production number.

The interface I use the most gets position 1, if only this is on, and position 2, if the both interfaces are on. So depending on what is on and what is off, I have to assign and reassign inputs in SW..... :-(

Would be more comfortable to be able to assign fixed numbers to interfaces.... So that interface keeps its position despite of other interfaces being on or off.

8 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2024-04-06 22:01:01)

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Re: Disable aggregation for two RME interfaces of same driver model?

Kubrak wrote:

It would be good, if one could assign position to interfaces. RME does it by production number.

The interface I use the most gets position 1, if only this is on, and position 2, if the both interfaces are on. So depending on what is on and what is off, I have to assign and reassign inputs in SW..... :-(

Would be more comfortable to be able to assign fixed numbers to interfaces.... So that interface keeps its position despite of other interfaces being on or off.

Sorry, but this is not the topic of this thread.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Kubrak
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Re: Disable aggregation for two RME interfaces of same driver model?

Well, not, you are right. But still,  it is sideeffect of agregation discussed.

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Re: Disable aggregation for two RME interfaces of same driver model?

Kubrak wrote:

Well, not, you are right. But still,  it is sideeffect of agregation discussed.

No. Read again. He wants a complete separation of both interfaces, although they will of courcse be both accessed by the same driver.

What you are talking about is the order, this is not his topic.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: Disable aggregation for two RME interfaces of same driver model?

OK, I just wanted to point out, that aggregation, as implemented, creates yet another problems.

12 Reply by MC

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Re: Disable aggregation for two RME interfaces of same driver model?

Tell that Microsoft. Windows mangles with the order in several ways...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

13 Reply by Kubrak (edited by Kubrak 2024-04-07 22:55:29)

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Re: Disable aggregation for two RME interfaces of same driver model?

I speak about ASIO driver. Even if there is some kind of numbering problem even in ASIO, if I could tell the driver make my the most used interface the first in the row, it would be always first and no jumping problem if I switch on/off the second one.

Or is there way to tell the ASIO driver to maintain the order?

EDIT:
I have learned in another thread, that it is possible to set in driver the way the order of devices is calculated. Default, A-Z, Z-A.

14 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2024-04-07 11:57:03)

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Re: Disable aggregation for two RME interfaces of same driver model?

Back to the topic.

First, it is important to understand your setup and the concrete issues.

Regarding your 1st posting I was mislead by you stating Digiface USB and UFX would use the same driver [model].
But this is not the case, see also my posting #7. How did you came to this statement?

anvilmusic wrote:

I have a Digiface USB and UFX 1 which both use the same driver model, and thus whenever I connect them both to my windows PC they combine under the same "Fireface ASIO" driver.

This can't be the case.

UFX and Digiface USB are using two different ASIO drivers
— UFX                  the older USB driver
— Digiface USB    the newer MADIface driver

So you already have the situation to run the two interfaces with two different drivers.
But then I am really wondering, how you set it up and how you use it from application / driver perspective.
Your setup and use cases are absolutely not clear to me.

anvilmusic wrote:

Unfortunately, this causes my DAW application launches, sample rate changes and other operations to lag a lot

Sounds very unusual to me. Especially the part with the laggyness.
So, can you please provide more details about your setup?
Also about your PC and about any special use cases that you might have?

Regarding lag. Please some numbers to get a concrete understanding of your situation.
Which application, what time to start up the application with one, the other or both interfaces.

Please note: there are interfaces with a lot more I/O ports than your UFX and Digiface USB.
Some time ago, I had two UFX+ and an ADI-2 Pro connected to my PC without any such issues.
Your setup (UFX and Digiface USB) has 126 ports in total, mine had at that time over 380 in total.
And with the ASIO driver, all channels are instantly transferred, no matter whether used or not by the application.

I also didn't understand what issues you have with sample rate changes.
Can you please detail your setup / use case to make this clear?

anvilmusic wrote:

[...] and I would actually prefer to keep the two interfaces separate.
Using one for audio application A and the other for B.

What is your use case for that?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13