Topic: How to expand hdspe madi fx for more aes/ebu ports

Hello,

I would like to work with the rme hdspe madi fx. However, I need two aes/ebu ports. Is it possible to connect the optional card to the mother card in order to have two AES/EBU ports?
Or is there another solution?
Thanks.

Re: How to expand hdspe madi fx for more aes/ebu ports

What do you want to connect?
Are you aware of, that one AES ports supports two channels (for stereo)?
Do you really need a 2nd AES port or only an AES splitter e.g. to connect a 2nd active monitor?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: How to expand hdspe madi fx for more aes/ebu ports

Hello Ramses,
Thank you for the fast reaction.

I have Burl B2 ADC and DAC - I use these with various hardware for my Mixbus and Mixprint (currently connected to UCX Spdif in and out). Another DAC (Zodiac+ from Antelope) is used for monitoring (currently optically connected to UCX ADAT/Spidif Out).
Now I want to switch to Madi Fx because of M1610 Pro. I would be missing a digital out for monitoring. Unless I could use M1610's Adat Out for that?
But regardless, can you repair the expansion for two AES ports with an additional opto card?

4 (edited by ramses 2024-04-08 13:43:52)

Re: How to expand hdspe madi fx for more aes/ebu ports

Hi Jack,

the optional OPTO-X card is a ** replacement ** for the daughter card to get a third optical MADI port.
The AES port is on this daughter card, so at the end of the day, you will have one AES port, not more.
The product is also only advertised with an AES port.

Without looking at the manual I assume, that the M-1610 Pro has the same flexibility in terms of routing like all other MADI/AVB products, but pls check yourself by reading the manual or by asking RME.

IMHO it should be possible to route analog inputs or audio from MADI or AVB to the ADAT outputs.
But only ADAT is supported as a protocol. So you need to check what device you want to connect here, whether it supports ADAT, some products only support SPDIF.

If you should have an Octamic XTC somewhere or get one from used market .. it has 4x AES I/O.
You also need the breakout cable if you would like to get one.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: How to expand hdspe madi fx for more aes/ebu ports

Thanks Ramses for the explanation and the tip with the Octamic XTC.
Then I read the M1610 manual and see if I can connect the monitoring DAC to ADAT Out.

One more question that I asked in another thread. M1610 Pro is no longer available. Do you know if this is temporary or final? Maybe an M1616 Pro coming soon?

Re: How to expand hdspe madi fx for more aes/ebu ports

I am a customer like you, I have no further information.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: How to expand hdspe madi fx for more aes/ebu ports

Okay. Thank you!

8 (edited by waedi 2024-04-08 19:01:43)

Re: How to expand hdspe madi fx for more aes/ebu ports

I had a ADI-6432 connected to the HDSPe Madi card, perfect solution for lots of AES (32 AES stereo channels ! Depending on sample rate)

M1-Sonoma, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

9 (edited by ramses 2024-04-08 19:35:12)

Re: How to expand hdspe madi fx for more aes/ebu ports

Jack63 wrote:

Hello,
I would like to work with the rme hdspe madi fx.
However, I need two aes/ebu ports.
Is it possible to connect the optional card to the mother card in order to have two AES/EBU ports?
Or is there another solution?
Thanks.

waedi wrote:

I had a ADI-6432 connected to the HDSPe Madi card, perfect solution for lots of AES (32 AES stereo channels ! Depending on sample rate)

Why should he buy an ADI-6432 with 32 AES ports for €2769, if he only requires one AES port more?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: How to expand hdspe madi fx for more aes/ebu ports

Hi,
Thanks for another tip @waedi, but @Ramses is right. I don't need that many AES ports. Two to four (stereo) would be sufficient. A small box that could be connected to the Madi Fx would be ideal.
Greetings

Re: How to expand hdspe madi fx for more aes/ebu ports

how about the smaller adi-4 dd?

Re: How to expand hdspe madi fx for more aes/ebu ports

Hi, thank you @hselters for the tip. But, how to connect this unit to the card for more AES?

13 (edited by ramses 2024-04-12 19:16:48)

Re: How to expand hdspe madi fx for more aes/ebu ports

Look at the back of the unit, it is a format converter: ADAT<->AES.
So you would need to connect it to the ADAT output of the M-1610 Pro, assumed that it can route between MADI and ADAT.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: How to expand hdspe madi fx for more aes/ebu ports

I used to have an ADI-642 connected to my MADI FX, for an extra 4 AES I/O

Re: How to expand hdspe madi fx for more aes/ebu ports

Thank you all for your feedback and for these tips. I didn't even know such devices existed.
I'm still thinking about my small studio concept, trying out different systems and the two tools, i.e. both Adi4 DD and Adi 642 could be an option.
Greatings

16 (edited by ramses 2024-04-13 10:40:49)

Re: How to expand hdspe madi fx for more aes/ebu ports

If I look at the suggestions above, a format converter costs a lot of money and the device does nothing else than the name says, convert from one format to the other, e.g. ADAT<-->AES.

Therefore, I think you might be interested in the following suggestion.

You could also get another AES port using the ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, which in digital through mode also can convert from ADAT to AES.

You would not only have invested money in a format converter, but also in a powerful product that can enhance your monitoring section with some unique and very respectable features.

Then you could perhaps route the analog output of all three DACs to your active monitors via a kind of monitor controller or passive switcher and then select different DACs for the output as desired.

I'm not sure if this setup really fits 100%, but I think it's enough to get the idea across that you might be better off investing the money in an ADI-2 Pro FS R BE. And then doing the format conversion through that.

Here some additional information that could wake your interest to invest into the ADI-2 Pro FS R BE.
Even the former model ADI-2 Pro FS did already very well in this "Mastering Converter Shootout" on YouTube from Marc Einstmann:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doHG32aXBDY
There, the ADI-2 Pro FS (former model) was compared against Crane Song HEDD-192 and AD122.
Marc Einstmann uses the different converters in his setup depending on which one supports the music material best.

Here some information from the manual about digital through mode of the ADI-2 Pro FS R BE:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/oc48y1jviah7it2ymt62m/2024-04-13-adi2profsr_e.pdf-Digital-Through-Mode.jpg?rlkey=lgefcrbwlvnw658jes8bt49ld&amp;dl=1

A connection schema for your setup, how I understood it (hopefully well enough).

PC---USB---ARC USB
|  \---USB2-------------------------------------------------+ for remote controlling ADI-2 Pro using ADI-2 Remote
|                                                                             | or as an option to playback DSD content using a different profile
| PCIe                                                                    |
HDSPe MADI FX---AES---------->AES---DAC#1---ANALOG----------------------------------------+
|    |                  \---AES<----------AES---/                |                                                               \
|    |                                                                       |                                                                \
|    + M-1610 Pro---ADAT------>ADAT---ADI-2 Pro FS R BE---AES---->AES---Burl---ANA---->Monitor Contr.--->Act. Monitors
|    |                     \---ADAT<-----ADAT---/             \   \        \---AES<-----AES---/                        /
|    |                                                                     \   \                                                            /
+--+                                                                      \  +-AN1/2-------------------------------------+
MADI                                                                      +---AN3/4------------------------------------------------------------>Phones Out

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: How to expand hdspe madi fx for more aes/ebu ports

Hello Ramses,

You've really done a lot of work on this topic - thank you very much for that and I really appreciate it.

This is a very interesting option. I will definitely consider this suggested solution.
At the same time, I'm also thinking about the UFX III. In terms of costs, it would be the same and I would get additional analog IOs and probably have a flexible control unit.
Everything is still open - I have to examine myself.
Greatings

18 (edited by ramses 2024-04-13 11:37:09)

Re: How to expand hdspe madi fx for more aes/ebu ports

PC---USB---ARC USB
|  \---USB2----------------------------------------+ for remote controlling ADI-2 Pro using ADI-2 Remote
|                                                                   | or as an option to playback DSD content using a different profile
| USB3                                                          |
UFX III---AES---------->AES---DAC#1---ANALOG------------------------------------------+
    \ \   \---AES<----------AES---/                      |                                                          \
     \  \                                                            |                                                           \
      \  +--ADAT---------->ADAT---ADI-2 Pro FS R BE---AES---->AES---Burl---ANA---->Monitor Controller----------->Act. Monitors
        +ADAT<-------------ADAT---/             \   \        \---AES<-----AES---/                        / (or also smth like Manley Backbone
                                                               \   \                                                            /  in the video for analog summing)
                                                                  \  +-AN1/2------------------------------------+
                                                                   +---AN3/4------------------------------------------------------------------------->Phones Out

Advantages of UFX III
- analog ports as you mentioned (with converter of ADI-2 Pro FS reference converter)
- ROOM EQ for room correction
- also an FX section just in case you need it occasionally for special purposes
- still one MADI bus if you need to connect further devices
- MADI ports also useful to use spare ports for creating Submixes for loopback recording

and if you should also record something from time to time
- four superb Mic Pre's with AUTOSET which do a fantastic job when being used as Instr input
- DURec for backup recordings if you should be recording

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

19 (edited by ramses 2024-04-13 11:45:51)

Re: How to expand hdspe madi fx for more aes/ebu ports

Thinking about this further, the Burl B2 has also an optical and coax SPDIF input.
https://www.thomann.de/de/burl_audio_b2_bomber_adc.htm

The new UFX III supports optical SPDIF on its two ADAT ports and AES is still separate.
In theory you could also save the money for the AES converter / the ADI-2 Pro FS.

I left out the other stuff, ARC USB etc to make the drawing easier and the concept clearer.

UFX III----AES<------------------------------>DAC#1<----------------------------------------> Monitor Controller
            ADAT1<----------[opt. SPDIF]----->DAC#2 BURL<---------------------------------> or Switcher
            now only optional:                                                                                          or smth like Manley Backbone-->Act Monitors
            ADAT2<----------[opt. SPDIF]----->DAC#3 ADI-2 Pro FS R BE<-----------------> for analog summing

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: How to expand hdspe madi fx for more aes/ebu ports

Exactly, I'm thinking along these lines at the moment, Ramses (but without the version with Manley Blackbone - not in the budget at the moment).

Great, I think this will be the best and most flexible solution for a few years. And I still have one ADAT port left for further needs.

Thank you for taking your time and thinking. This is very helpful.
Greatings