1 Topic by howlback (edited by howlback 2024-05-16 23:18:48)

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Topic: Monitoring TotalMix Software with HDSPe MADI FX PCIe

I just sold my UCX-II. I’ll miss but maxing out the I/O left me with no choice. The HDSPe MADI FX PCIe solution is more I/O than I’ll ever need but I do utilize TotalMix’s effects on most sessions (for improving monitor mixes). The UFX III was a strong contender but unfortunately it doesn’t have enough I/O for my use case. I would still have to add some sort of external conversion (i.e. Ferrofish A32pro). The MADI FX PCIe costs less than a UFX III but I have some questions about low-latency monitoring.

My concerns about the MADI FX PCIe revolve around the monitoring of TotalMix. I see there is a single analog stereo phone out on the actual card. Im assuming that would work similarly to output 7/8 on my UCX-II. What I’m curious about is if used in conjunction with say a Ferrofish A32Pro, will the MADI FX PCIe will be able to offer the same low-latency monitoring from TotalMix via the A32Pro Monitor and Phones 1 & 2 outs. Can anyone confirm this?

If not, what is best to monitor TotalMix with when using a MADI FX PCIe? Were these cards intended to be used along side something like a MADIface XT that offer analog monitor out? If so, that would put me far out of my price range.

2 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2024-05-17 06:45:19)

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Re: Monitoring TotalMix Software with HDSPe MADI FX PCIe

Ideal is the combination of HDSPe MADI FX and RME reference converter.
Either ADI-2 Pro FS R BE or ADI-2/4 Pro SE connected to the AES ports of the card.

How to integrate a reference converter into your setup, read my blog article:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … our-Setup/

There is no big difference in latency between RME ASIO drivers, you can check this blog article.
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ent … cts-en-de/

Difference between different ADI-2 DAC/Pro Models and some features highlighted, here:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … ses-EN-DE/

The additions in ADI-2/4 Pro SE you can see there in screenshot of the Excel
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/attachment/3108-adi-2-pro-dac-adi-24-pro-se-models-differences-and-release-dates-v005-jpg/

... and also here in this forum:
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=32506

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

3 Reply by howlback (edited by howlback 2024-05-17 10:04:07)

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Re: Monitoring TotalMix Software with HDSPe MADI FX PCIe

Thanks for alerting me to this solution. Now that I've been made aware, I think an ADI-2 FS partnered with 802 FS would give me all the analog and digital I/O that I require as well as TotalMix FX at a much lower price point. I think I may go that route!

  • vinark
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Re: Monitoring TotalMix Software with HDSPe MADI FX PCIe

To answer your original question, yes monitoring latency is identical. There is no difference if audio comes into totalmix from the device itself like on the ucx or from an external AD on the madiface.

Vincent, Amsterdam
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BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

5 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2024-05-17 12:03:47)

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Re: Monitoring TotalMix Software with HDSPe MADI FX PCIe

howlback wrote:

Thanks for alerting me to this solution. Now that I've been made aware, I think an ADI-2 FS partnered with 802 FS would give me all the analog and digital I/O that I require as well as TotalMix FX at a much lower price point. I think I may go that route!

Surely a good combination.

Keep in mind, if you spend a few more bucks (UFX II), then you have the following advantages:
- mic preamps like UFX III / 12Mic with gain up to 75 dB
- mic preamps and headphone outputs can be controlled by TM FX and settings can be stored into snapshots as well
- the display which is nice to have and offers excellent stand-alone capabilities
And features like
- DURec, you can use this for backup recordings or stand-alone like a tape deck
- Autoset to automatically choose a nice input gain for Mic and Inst inputs which give a nice handling

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: Monitoring TotalMix Software with HDSPe MADI FX PCIe

ramses wrote:
howlback wrote:

Thanks for alerting me to this solution. Now that I've been made aware, I think an ADI-2 FS partnered with 802 FS would give me all the analog and digital I/O that I require as well as TotalMix FX at a much lower price point. I think I may go that route!

Surely a good combination.

Is there a way to connect these two units without sacrificing an ADAT port?

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Re: Monitoring TotalMix Software with HDSPe MADI FX PCIe

Maybe I misread. ADI-2 FS doesn't bring you any big advantage over UFX III and newer versions of UFX II,
as they have already the converter of the older version of reference converter ADI-2 Pro FS.

ADI-2 FS also does not have the unique features of the reference converters.

I would either use ADI-2 Pro FS R BE or ADI-2/4 Pro SE because they have I/O ports, features more for studio use.
There you also have the possibility to change the DA filter of AKM / ESS chip.

Those reference converters can be connected through AES, then the two ADAT ports of UFX III stay free.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: Monitoring TotalMix Software with HDSPe MADI FX PCIe

ramses wrote:

Maybe I misread. ADI-2 FS doesn't bring you any big advantage over UFX III and newer versions of UFX II,
as they have already the converter of the older version of reference converter ADI-2 Pro FS.

ADI-2 FS also does not have the unique features of the reference converters.

I would either use ADI-2 Pro FS R BE or ADI-2/4 Pro SE because they have I/O ports, features more for studio use.
There you also have the possibility to change the DA filter of AKM / ESS chip.

Those reference converters can be connected through AES, then the two ADAT ports of UFX III stay free.

I'm going to be maxing out the analog Line I/O on the 802 FS. My only goal was to expand by adding an additional headphone out and analog out for my main monitors via the ADI-2 FS.

9 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2024-05-23 10:15:52)

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Re: Monitoring TotalMix Software with HDSPe MADI FX PCIe

Then use the AES port of 802 FS to connect to the ADI-2 FS, needs an adapter, see manuals ch 6.6 of ADI-2 FS and/or ch 21.2 of 802 FS.

Features wise, I would still prefer a combination of UFX II and ADI-2 Pro FS R BE and connecting both devices via AES.

I gave you already a link where a few details are pointed out, I do not know whether you read it or not.
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … ses-EN-DE/

From handling/troubleshooting perspective
- more control over the digital connection by state overview
- bit test to validate lossless audio transfer end-to-end from player up to the DSP of the ADI-2 Pro shorty before DA conversion
- remote control via ADI-2 Remote

Feature wise
- different D/A filter, which are useful in single speed
- PEQ for normalizing headphone or compensating treble roll off at single speed in the audible part
- different reference level in combination with auto ref level to deliver the highest SNR/dynamic over a wider range of output level
- dynamic loudness
- more powerful headphone outputs, supporting even those with high impedance / inefficient drivers
- SRC
- ...

You didn't tell about your budget. OK, costs more, but if it were possible budget wise, then I think the price difference is fully justified as you get very useful features on top.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

10 Reply by howlback (edited by howlback 2024-05-23 10:18:26)

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Re: Monitoring TotalMix Software with HDSPe MADI FX PCIe

"To receive signals in AES/EBU format, an adapter cable is required.
Pins 2 and 3 of a female XLR plug are connected individually to the two pins of a phono plug.
The cable shielding is only connected to pin 1 of the XLR - not to the phono plug."

I sense there will be soldering in my near future. Unless someone already makes such a cable.

11 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2024-05-23 10:37:16)

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Re: Monitoring TotalMix Software with HDSPe MADI FX PCIe

howlback wrote:

"To receive signals in AES/EBU format, an adapter cable is required.
Pins 2 and 3 of a female XLR plug are connected individually to the two pins of a phono plug.
The cable shielding is only connected to pin 1 of the XLR - not to the phono plug."

I sense there will be soldering in my near future. Unless someone already makes such a cable.

https://www.thomann.de/de/pro_snake_aes … able_3.htm

The only problem with this cable might be cable length (3m) in a rack.
Either you find another offer with shorter cable of you need to make one yourself.
According to standard you need a digital cable with 110 Ohm.
At shorter cable runs also other cable might fit, but to be on the safe side I would better stick to the standard.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13