• Registered: 2023-06-20
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Topic: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

I am collecting info on the parts I need to build my new desktop computer, solely intended for audio production IE, my studio.
The computer will be built around intel 14700K CPU.
Now obviously since the motherboard is the place I connect my UFX3 to, are there some of them I should avoid? Currently I was looking into B760 by Gigabyte.
Apart from that. I figured I'd go with a non-integrated graphics motherboard and get some sort of graphics card just good enough to perform the display duties (no gaming gpus).

What else...? Ddr5... a good cooler and a decent housing.
Anyways, please let me not stumble on some unexpected obstacles here.
Thanks

2 Reply by Kubrak (edited by Kubrak 2024-06-12 10:20:15)

  • Registered: 2023-08-03
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Re: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

Why Intel, is there a specific reason? What about AMD? In few months Zen5 will come. But Zen4 is also good one. Easier to cool than Intel and no need dealing with big-little. Problems brought by Intel's big-little are solvable, but is not it better to avoid it?

If you do not require/need Thunderbolt, I see no reason for using Intel.

And concerning 14700K specifically.... I would recommend google search for this specific CPU and problems keyword. I do not have personal experience, but it seems that it is not the most reliable CPU model..... Seems to be rather opposite.... Some sellers publish also rate of defective items in guarantie period. So, you may check, if that is true...

3 Reply by vdamir78 (edited by vdamir78 2024-06-12 10:25:27)

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Re: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

Well, it was between AMD Ryzen 7800x3d and this intel. But at least on benchmarks I looked at, intel beats this Ryzen by almost 10% in speed and we love that in DAW, right? smile

No I am not using thunderbolt. A windows computer it is.

  • Registered: 2023-06-20
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Re: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

Oh and it is going to be a 14700KF * the F version is without integrated graphics* to be exact

  • Registered: 2023-08-03
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Re: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

I am not sure, I think it applies also to KF, but make a check. Intel even ordered/recommended MB producers to incorporate new power plan for CPUs affected with strict PL2 limits and so on. So, maybe the comparison of 14700KF and 7800x3d does not hold on as Intels are usually tested in default settings which was no PL2 limit and so on. Intels did run according to what cooler let them....

Zen5 will bring about 16% IPC rise on average. It has 50% more ALUs and FPUs than Zen4, so audio SW might get even higher IPC. And Zen5 with improvements in 3D cache (maybe that 3D cache will not require lower CPU clock to cool everything down) might come in October or so....

  • Registered: 2023-06-20
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Re: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

Well I am not against, say, Ryzen 7900x3D.

  • Registered: 2023-08-03
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Re: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

If not in hurry, waiting few months for Zen5 3D, might be cool.

  • Registered: 2023-06-20
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Re: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

Kubrak wrote:

If not in hurry, waiting few months for Zen5 3D, might be cool.

I can't wait that long. My poor laptop is drowning. I also got some tracking and mixing sessions coming up. I even put a few mix sessions on hold to figure out what computer to go for in say next 7 days and to start making it happen next week.

9 Reply by vinark (edited by vinark 2024-06-12 11:50:23)

  • vinark
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Re: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

That is a very good reason and probably the only real one. The "I could use some more power" is more of a luxury. I am sorry I can not be of more help even though I always build my own computers for Daw work. But I am on a budget and always use second hand proven quit old hardware. My latest builds were 2nd generation intels, based on 2600K. They work perfectly for my purpose and with RME. The last second hand computer I bought was a complete system for 50 eoro's.
If possible I would build a system based on the latest intel before big little cores, I believe 11th generation, with 6 to 10 cores, for example like the  i9-10850K or somewhat less too.

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  • Registered: 2023-08-03
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Re: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

I agree, if Intel than 10th or 11th gen.

12th, 13th and 14th are anyway more or less overclocked refresh of refresh of refresh... With added "value" of cripled little cores that bring more problems than utility.... IMHO nightmare. Yes, there are solutions and so on. But why not to avoid possible problems right at start?

  • Registered: 2020-12-24
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Re: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

Kubrak wrote:

I agree, if Intel than 10th or 11th gen.

12th, 13th and 14th are anyway more or less overclocked refresh of refresh of refresh... With added "value" of cripled little cores that bring more problems than utility.... IMHO nightmare. Yes, there are solutions and so on. But why not to avoid possible problems right at start?

An Intel Core i5 (12th Gen) i5-12500 could also be applicable. It has 6 performance cores and 0 efficiency cores; but it does include an integrated GPU. I picked this one out since VMware Workstation Pro doesn't deal well with the efficiency cores.

12 Reply by Kubrak (edited by Kubrak 2024-06-12 13:46:40)

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Re: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

Yes, you are right. One may find few models that have only p-cores. But OP wants to build strong PC, I doubt there is at least 8 core  Intel (post 11th gen) just with p-cores.

Well, one may disable e-cores. But why to pay for e-cores if not used...

Let's hope that 16th gen. will be old good Intel again. The 15th gen. does not look to be the game changer....

  • Registered: 2023-06-30
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Re: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

Why not look at the Xeon E or Xeon W series then?

  • Registered: 2023-08-03
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Re: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

Or Epyc, Threadripper? It depends, how much CPU power and RAM one needs.... And how much can afford to spend.

  • Registered: 2023-06-20
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Re: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

Leaning towards Ryzen 7950X3D currently (that is my financial ceiling)

  • ramses
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Re: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

Kubrak wrote:

Or Epyc, Threadripper? It depends, how much CPU power and RAM one needs.... And how much can afford to spend.

Makes IMHO no sense.
Most application / DAW cannot make use of so many cores.
Unless you need so many cores for other applications it would be better to get a system with fewer cores but:
- high base clock and
- high single thread performance

The overview of passmark.com can give you a few hints about the best bang for the buck in terms of overall performance.
Then you need to look at those details: single thread performance, base clock .. and whether the CPU fulfills other requirements.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

ramses wrote:
Kubrak wrote:

Or Epyc, Threadripper? It depends, how much CPU power and RAM one needs.... And how much can afford to spend.

Makes IMHO no sense.
Most application / DAW cannot make use of so many cores.
Unless you need so many cores for other applications it would be better to get a system with fewer cores but:
- high base clock and
- high single thread performance

The overview of passmark.com can give you a few hints about the best bang for the buck in terms of overall performance.
Then you need to look at those details: single thread performance, base clock .. and whether the CPU fulfills other requirements.

Can you name a few that fall into that category?  Thanks

18 Reply by Kubrak (edited by Kubrak 2024-06-12 18:53:42)

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Re: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

Ramses, I understand what you mean. But one may need lots of RAM for large sampled symphonic libraries. And generally as many tracks as many CPU cores may be used. Plus one or more additional ones.

But there may be limitation on Win, how many cores it is able schedule. Home and maybe even Pro have/used to have a relatively low limit.

And for sure one may need strong single core if heavy effects/instruments used (or tiny buffer) and also strong multicore, if many heavier tracks are used....

As I said, huge RAM (over 128 GB) may be needed and also big cache may very speed up things, if data/program fits to cache...

So to choose proper setup is not that easy. It depends on type of work one does....

And beside that there may be problems with copy protection of SW. Quite recently one quy has faced problems to run certain plugins on two CPU socket Win server computer.... He was not able to authorise it to run in non-Demo mode....

19 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2024-06-12 20:37:12)

  • ramses
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Re: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

Kubrak wrote:

Ramses, I understand what you mean. But one may need lots of RAM for large sampled symphonic libraries.

I reread the thread and I do not see any information about large sampled symphonic libraries.

He wrote, that he is currently using a laptop and is thinking about getting a Ryzen 7950X3D
and describes that as his financial ceiling. Use cases for: mixing / tracking.

Wondering where you see any requirements for Epic / Threadripper.

a) over his budget
b) so many cores make usually no sense for a DAW anyway
c) single thread performance is more useful in such a setup

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

Well, that was a bit offtopic discussion, not suggestion to OP... My reply to Xeon W....

Yes almost 200 CPU cores of comming Epycs would be too much for DAW. But 32, 64, why not? And mainly. If one needs plenty of RAM...

I fully agree, it is not for an average guy. But one violin may take 5 GB of RAM and you need few of them and the same for other instruments, it is not that hard to run out of 128 GB RAM fast....

  • From: Spain
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Re: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

Hi all

Please, anyone knows if there is a DAW simulator/benchmark as i.e. PugetBench or SPECviewperf? Would be funny and interesting something like "CubaseBench" ...

vdamir78 wrote:

Now obviously since the motherboard is the place I connect my UFX3 to, are there some of them I should avoid? Currently I was looking into B760 by Gigabyte.

I would avoid:

1 - The brands with the worst opinions from their customers about technical support, if the end user has a clear purpose everything else is secondary. Surely you'll be right choosing.

2 - Be an early adopter, the worst decision for anyone looking for a reliable tool.

I'll take a look at the B760 series to wake up from my slumber, I stayed on Zen+ and so far I'm surviving Windows 11, fortunately I don't need more smile

FF UCX II 106/34/104 v1.251 - PC X399 + Windows 11 Pro 23H2 - Reaper 7.20
  • Registered: 2023-06-20
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Re: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

tonpalt wrote:

Hi all

Please, anyone knows if there is a DAW simulator/benchmark as i.e. PugetBench or SPECviewperf? Would be funny and interesting something like "CubaseBench" ...

vdamir78 wrote:

Now obviously since the motherboard is the place I connect my UFX3 to, are there some of them I should avoid? Currently I was looking into B760 by Gigabyte.

I would avoid:

1 - The brands with the worst opinions from their customers about technical support, if the end user has a clear purpose everything else is secondary. Surely you'll be right choosing.

2 - Be an early adopter, the worst decision for anyone looking for a reliable tool.

I'll take a look at the B760 series to wake up from my slumber, I stayed on Zen+ and so far I'm surviving Windows 11, fortunately I don't need more smile

Haha ok

23 Reply by vdamir78 (edited by vdamir78 2024-06-13 01:17:05)

  • Registered: 2023-06-20
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Re: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

Btw, since I am leaving intel behind here...the motherboard in question would not work with a ryzen. For that CPU, the likes of MSI Mag Tomahawk B650 could be a choice

  • Registered: 2023-06-30
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Re: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

vdamir78 wrote:

Btw, since I am leaving intel behind here...the motherboard in question would not work with a ryzen. For that CPU, the likes of MSI Mag Tomahawk B650 could be a choice

Why are you insisting on getting consumer crap hardware from such vendors like Gigabyte or MSI? If you need a computer for work, use workstation-grade components. When it comes to motherboards, I'd consider something from Supermicro. And yes, I would get workstation- or server-grade CPU with ECC memory. In fact, my main PC at home is based on Intel Xeon W-2265 with 128 GB of registered ECC memory. Yes, it may not be SOTA in terms of CPU architecture or power efficiency (and was not even when it was released), but it's reliable and rock-solid and gets the job done. I have it since 2020 and see no reason to upgrade it in the coming years.

I also have a homelab server based on Xeon E-2236 with ECC memory and Supermicro MB, as well as a DIY NAS with Xeon D-1521 and ECC memory with Supermicro MB, and even my Internet gateway/firewall is a Mini-ITX DYI build using Supermicro Atom board with ECC memory and IPMI with pfSense inside. And it works 24/7 with no active cooling since 2017, with uptimes that can reach a couple of years between OS upgrades.

So investing in reliable components pays out in the end.

25 Reply by vdamir78 (edited by vdamir78 2024-06-13 04:31:47)

  • Registered: 2023-06-20
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Re: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

unpluggged wrote:
vdamir78 wrote:

Btw, since I am leaving intel behind here...the motherboard in question would not work with a ryzen. For that CPU, the likes of MSI Mag Tomahawk B650 could be a choice

Why are you insisting on getting consumer crap hardware from such vendors like Gigabyte or MSI? If you need a computer for work, use workstation-grade components. When it comes to motherboards, I'd consider something from Supermicro. And yes, I would get workstation- or server-grade CPU with ECC memory. In fact, my main PC at home is based on Intel Xeon W-2265 with 128 GB of registered ECC memory. Yes, it may not be SOTA in terms of CPU architecture or power efficiency (and was not even when it was released), but it's reliable and rock-solid and gets the job done. I have it since 2020 and see no reason to upgrade it in the coming years.

I also have a homelab server based on Xeon E-2236 with ECC memory and Supermicro MB, as well as a DIY NAS with Xeon D-1521 and ECC memory with Supermicro MB, and even my Internet gateway/firewall is a Mini-ITX DYI build using Supermicro Atom board with ECC memory and IPMI with pfSense inside. And it works 24/7 with no active cooling since 2017, with uptimes that can reach a couple of years between OS upgrades.

So investing in reliable components pays out in the end.

I thought ddr5 already has ECC capabilities by default?
I simply cannot afford a superexpensive motherboard. The system will not be overwhelmed all the time, only in hybrid-mixing combined with higher oversampling on the gate/clip/limiter plugins when an initial mix for drums + rest of the song is being put in place.
After that's been printed, there could be some
rare realtime outboard mixdowns, but for the most part, the latter stages of the mix will remain ITB, and only so much loaded with plugins.
My current computer cannot handle this, so I need something better, but not NASA-better, to handle stuff when it becomes demanding.

  • Registered: 2023-06-30
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Re: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

vdamir78 wrote:

I thought ddr5 already has ECC capabilities by default?

Only on-chip; they don't have ECC for inflight errors with a dedicated parity chip.

I simply cannot afford a superexpensive motherboard.

They are not. In fact, they are often cheaper than consumer "enthusiast" boards due to not having tons of useless onboard features. And you pay for what's really needed.

The system will not be overwhelmed all the time, only in hybrid-mixing combined with higher oversampling on the gate/clip/limiter plugins when an initial mix for drums + rest of the song is being put in place.
After that's been printed, there could be some
rare realtime outboard mixdowns, but for the most part, the latter stages of the mix will remain ITB, and only so much loaded with plugins.

And still, nobody would like to have their project ruined because of an onboard Wi-Fi driver freaked out or due to a BSoD caused by an ECC error (much more likely with large RAM sizes).

My current computer cannot handle this, so I need something better, but not NASA-better, to handle stuff when it becomes demanding.

Then I say, invest in a previous-gen workstation-class hardware, not necessarily top-end. It will bring you peace of mind and you will know that you got covered for at least next several years.

I would get something with no more than 6-8 fast cores from Intel's Xeon E or lower-end Xeon W lineups, with a decent MB from Supermicro without any additional features like Wi-Fi, RGB lights, fancy integrated audio etc., and with ECC memory modules. No need to buy a kilowatt PSU or a top-end GPU. It's a working tool that you buy, after all.

  • Registered: 2023-06-20
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Re: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

unpluggged wrote:
vdamir78 wrote:

I thought ddr5 already has ECC capabilities by default?

Only on-chip; they don't have ECC for inflight errors with a dedicated parity chip.

I simply cannot afford a superexpensive motherboard.

They are not. In fact, they are often cheaper than consumer "enthusiast" boards due to not having tons of useless onboard features. And you pay for what's really needed.

The system will not be overwhelmed all the time, only in hybrid-mixing combined with higher oversampling on the gate/clip/limiter plugins when an initial mix for drums + rest of the song is being put in place.
After that's been printed, there could be some
rare realtime outboard mixdowns, but for the most part, the latter stages of the mix will remain ITB, and only so much loaded with plugins.

And still, nobody would like to have their project ruined because of an onboard Wi-Fi driver freaked out or due to a BSoD caused by an ECC error (much more likely with large RAM sizes).

My current computer cannot handle this, so I need something better, but not NASA-better, to handle stuff when it becomes demanding.

Then I say, invest in a previous-gen workstation-class hardware, not necessarily top-end. It will bring you peace of mind and you will know that you got covered for at least next several years.

I would get something with no more than 6-8 fast cores from Intel's Xeon E or lower-end Xeon W lineups, with a decent MB from Supermicro without any additional features like Wi-Fi, RGB lights, fancy integrated audio etc., and with ECC memory modules. No need to buy a kilowatt PSU or a top-end GPU. It's a working tool that you buy, after all.

I just browsed some of retailers in my country and none of them lists Intel Xeon (max). This has to be something they never sell or it gets ordered other than thru usual consumer/retailers.

I do admit that I've been out of touch with computer hardware for a while, but I see you mentioned GPU; I didn't want any nor an integrated grapics on the board. Just a simple non-gaming graphics card to do the job of what it was supposed to do.

I didn't google more for motherboards for Xeon as no Xeon cpu to buy here discouraged me.
Also the computer won't be connected to internet so the wifi in it would be turned off anyways. Just like the starting notes of this thread suggest: I just wanted a working motherboard that will coexist with RME UFX3 and will not have a bunch of stuff on it anyways. I already gave up on intel and turned my attention to Ryzen CPUs. But I am not sure if this Xeon thing would be something I could make retailers from around here to get me. I live in Bosnia, so still it is Europe, but seems far away for Xeon. I don't know.
My way of thinking was - get as much as (adequate) CPU power with non conflicting hardware around it without any other audio-non-essential hardware and software installed. Can't a Ryzen do this and some motherboard that doesn't have a bad personality?

  • Registered: 2023-08-03
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Re: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

IMHO. if you are now on notebook and it works for you, Ryzen will do for you.

I have Zen3 APU 5700G (8C/16T), with 64 GB RAM, 2x 1TB NVMe SSD and it is more than I need for years... It has CPU performance somewhere a bit above M1 Pro. And fits to box 15 x 15 x 8 cm. There is even passively cooled case available for that assembly, but I did not want to spend extra money. It is easy to carry if one needs.

What spec computer do you have now? @Unplugged is right that it is often better to buy older models. They are still good, and price for what one gets is better than new top models...

  • Registered: 2023-06-20
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Re: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

Kubrak wrote:

IMHO. if you are now on notebook and it works for you, Ryzen will do for you.

I have Zen3 APU 5700G (8C/16T), with 64 GB RAM, 2x 1TB NVMe SSD and it is more than I need for years... It has CPU performance somewhere a bit above M1 Pro. And fits to box 15 x 15 x 8 cm. There is even passively cooled case available for that assembly, but I did not want to spend extra money. It is easy to carry if one needs.

What spec computer do you have now? @Unplugged is right that it is often better to buy older models. They are still good, and price for what one gets is better than new top models...

I got a 11th gen intel cpu in an entry level gaming laptop, but I am not sure which one, the laptop is in my studio. It's got 16gb of ram (3000mhz) and two nvmes in it. It's 3-4 years old. An Asus Tuf.

  • Registered: 2023-08-03
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Re: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

What comes to my mind... Do you have enought RAM? If not and OS is swapping to disc, it may create dropouts and so on...

Have a look what exactly CPU do you have (at least how many cores and threads and the clock it runs...)

  • Registered: 2023-06-20
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Re: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

Kubrak wrote:

What comes to my mind... Do you have enought RAM? If not and OS is swapping to disc, it may create dropouts and so on...

Have a look what exactly CPU do you have (at least how many cores and threads and the clock it runs...)

Whenever I tried to check if RAM was the problem I could not confirm it was being used in higher percentages.
The CPU meter, in Studio One, though, is fighting for its life in half of my sessions.

  • ramses
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Re: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

Kubrak wrote:

Well, that was a bit offtopic discussion, not suggestion to OP... My reply to Xeon W....

Yes almost 200 CPU cores of comming Epycs would be too much for DAW. But 32, 64, why not? And mainly. If one needs plenty of RAM...

I fully agree, it is not for an average guy. But one violin may take 5 GB of RAM and you need few of them and the same for other instruments, it is not that hard to run out of 128 GB RAM fast....

Hey, I do not want to argue with you .. but I would like to ask you to stay on topic.
Nobody told about orchester plugins and heavy violines.

Let me put one example. Audio export from Cubase ... I do not see the relevance of 64 CPU cores here.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/no229dus95s3vvq96t8x7/2024-06-13-Cubase-13-Audio-Export.jpg?rlkey=41ahwu11zvawiay9c4nf8u0fk&dl=1

Sure, may depend on the plugins that you use, but .. really more than 16 cores?
Also 32 GB RAM is usually more than enough.

Please lets discuss based on real demands.

I am currently full undecided which system I would buy by now.
I have a certain feeling that my 10y old but - but heavily upgraded - system will stay for another 2-3y.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: What motherboard should I stay away from (with UFX III)

Currently, I have only 8 cores. But quite recently one guy has discussed his problems with his setup. Three interconnected computers working on one task and one of them was two CPU server machine....

I agree that probably few people at this forum use heavy symphonic plugins, most probably use and process recorded tracks. But I come from community that creates sounds using samplers, SW synths and so.... Syphonic libraries for samplers like Kontakt are pretty widespread and start to be RAM demanding. And also because of heavy use of reverb they are CPU demanding.

Quite a lot people are scoring music for films/ads/games fully on computer. And for film often sort of symphonic stuff...
https://www.native-instruments.com/en/c … amp;page=4
https://www.spitfireaudio.com/instrumen … price_desc
https://www.strezov-sampling.com/bundles/

One may easily spend multiple the money he would spend for RME gear.... And for computers as well as those libraries are pretty demanding.

So, I would not have problem to overload 16 core maschine. But I will do with 8C and 64 GB of RAM. But yes, I could fit even into 32 GB, but so, so.

But for sure, different people do different things and have different needs....