• From: North Macedonia
  • Registered: 2024-09-01
  • Posts: 9

Topic: firewire daisychain

Hello to everyone on this forum!

I'm a new and proud owner of a UCX Fireface (thank you Michael from AudioAG)
and not knowing much about daisy-chaining two interfaces
through firewire, my question is:
Is it possible to do this between the UCX and a Presonus Firepod?
I know it can be done with 2 Firepods, but not sure about the UCX.
(The Firepod has 2 firewire connectors for this purpose,
but it lacks a Wordclock in/out, if it's important for this.)
I have a PC as a host with both USB and Firewire connections.

Could anyone with experience on this tell me if it's doable.

Thank you,
and greetings from Macedonia.

temel_igor's Website

  • waedi
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  • From: Swiss Zürich
  • Registered: 2020-12-08
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Re: firewire daisychain

The UCX can connect with USB to the computer and the Firepod with firewire.
Is this good to have two audio interfaces connected to one Windows computer ?
What is your desire ?
Combination of the two interfaces into one big one ?

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • Registered: 2016-06-14
  • Posts: 1,142

Re: firewire daisychain

Hi! So this is an old UCX unit, right? Not the current UCX II model? Because the new one has no more firewire port. You can try to plug the Firepod to the computer (port 1) and the UCX to the Firepod (Port 2). I cannot tell you how well it would work. And as waedi asks: what is your goal?

UCX - FF 400 - Babyface pro - Digiface USB - ADI-2 (original)
Mac mini M1 - Macbook pro - iPad Air2

4 Reply by temel_igor (edited by temel_igor 2024-09-09 05:42:11)

  • From: North Macedonia
  • Registered: 2024-09-01
  • Posts: 9

Re: firewire daisychain

Thanks for the answers!

I like to know if it would work -
Firepod into the PC,
and UCX into the 2nd Firepod fw port.

Would they be in sync with only a firewire cable between the two?

Of course I know you can't run them both separately under Windows,
but I was thinking as one master/slave interface.
I would want to have the extra inputs of the UCX
if there's a need for eight channels more.

temel_igor's Website

5 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2024-09-09 07:38:13)

  • ramses
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  • Registered: 2012-10-14
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Re: firewire daisychain

1) Firewire back to back

This won't work: PC---USB---UCX----FW400----Presonus Firepod
You need a FireWire controller and ASIO driver to communicate with the Presonus Firepod.
It is not possible "back to back" between UCX and the Firepod.

2) Using ASIO4ALL can't be recommended

PC--"ASIO---RME ASIO Driver---------USB-------UCX
   \--4ALL"---Presonus FW Driver-----FW400---Presonus

Nobody recommends it in a professional/semi-professional environment.
Me neither, I only want to mention it for completeness of the case.

The bad thing is that it adds another ASIO protocol on top of the RME and Presonus original ASIO drivers.
Then the DAW has no direct access via the real ASIO drivers to the hardware anymore.
But this is the "key" of using ASIO drivers for direct access to the hardware to get stability and low latency.

Moreover, the compiled-in RTL values in the ASIO drivers for AD and DA would not fit anymore, so that latency correction in the DAW will most likely be wrong.

3) The only possibility to connect UCX and Presonus, but with strong limitations (2 ch)

These two devices use different drivers, but you can only load one audio driver into the DAW.
This means you would need to make the UCX as your main interface (to have TotalMix FX as main mixer)
and to connect the Firepod via a digital port.

Sadly, the Firepod has no support for ADAT, it supports only coax. SPDIF, which is a 2ch protocol.
I leave it up to you whether only 2 channels are worth it to connect the Presonus Firepod via SPDIF(c).

4) The only valid solution, get a new preamp

The only solution that makes sense is to purchase a new preamp and to connect it via ADAT to the UCX.
I would recommend a RME preamp, but I assume you want an inexpensive solution.
Best solution would be to add a Behringer ADA8200 as preamp / AD/DA converter to the UCX via ADAT, see here:

PC---USB---UCX---ADAT OUT--------------->ADAT IN---ADA8200
                        \---ADAT IN<----------------ADAT OUT---/

Clock master                                         Clock slave via ADAT IN
                                                             (set jumpers on the back accordingly)

https://www.thomann.de/de/behringer_ada … ragain.htm €198

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

6 Reply by maggie33 (edited by maggie33 2024-09-09 12:34:45)

  • From: Germany, Tuvalu, Poland, Chile
  • Registered: 2021-07-27
  • Posts: 473

Re: firewire daisychain

I like to know if it would work -
Firepod into the PC,
and UCX into the 2nd Firepod fw port.

I think oli asumed the same as i do.

—-

This won't work: PC---USB---UCX----FW400----Presonus Firepod

Sure, this wont work. But temel_igor did not ask for something USB related.
To make clear for you what he meant:
PC---FW400—Firepod---FW400----UCX


-> I personaly never did sth like this between a Firepod and UCX.
-> but i used „FW daisy chaining“ between a FF800 and a FF802 with success a longer time ago (2 RME units)
-> so, basically i could Imagine it would be possible - but it seems to be a real exotic idea.
Anyhow, temel_igor, would be interesting if you could report back your results.

Edit: Just quick overlooked the Firepod (FP10) specs: it looks like it does not have any connection built in for an external clocksync. (Wordclock, etc..)
If so, it will be probably not possible to get both units synced…

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard

7 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2024-09-09 15:36:57)

  • ramses
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Re: firewire daisychain

maggie33 wrote:

This won't work: PC---USB---UCX----FW400----Presonus Firepod

Sure, this wont work. But temel_igor did not ask for something USB related.
To make clear for you what he meant:
PC---FW400—Firepod---FW400----UCX

Then you have again 2 different interfaces using two different drivers (as described already above).
To use ASIO4ALL is not a good idea, explanation, see above.
Clock sync might be possible via SPDIF(c) which both interfaces support.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

8 Reply by temel_igor (edited by temel_igor 2024-09-10 00:34:22)

  • From: North Macedonia
  • Registered: 2024-09-01
  • Posts: 9

Re: firewire daisychain

Yes, ramses, I was aware of points 2 and 3, and Behringer's preamp
is really the cheapest solution.
And as maggie33 wrote I was afraid the Firepod couldn't be synced
with the UCX since it lacks a wordclock in/out (as well as ADAT).

So, once again, to be clear, my idea was -
Firepod (as a master, a setting in its driver) to the PC (with PCI firewire interface),
UCX (as a slave) to the second fw port of the Firepod.
(no USB connection whatsoever)

I shall try connecting the two,
and will let you know the outcome.

Thanks for your insights!

temel_igor's Website

9 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2024-09-10 06:37:06)

  • ramses
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Re: firewire daisychain

I would connect the UCX via USB, FireWire won't give you any advantage.

Whether you have
- two different firewire or
- USB and Firewire driver in combination
makes no difference.

Using the USB driver for the UCX gives you the operational advantage to be able to perform firmware upgrades at any time.
Firmware updates over FireWire are not possible.

My personal experience ~10y ago on my previous system was, that UFX and USB driver worked better compared to the FireWire driver. See
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 770#p99770
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.ph … 67#p100967

If you use Firewire it is not enough to get a card with Firewire Chipset from TI (Texas Instruments).
At that time many card vendors used the XIO2200A which was bugged, it didn't respond to interrupts reliably.
So even if you tried several FW cards with TI chipset chances were high to get again a card with the bugged XIO2200A to get finally the same issues.

Switching to USB2 solves all these issues and with RME you have the additional plus to be able to flash the device via USB.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

10 Reply by maggie33 (edited by maggie33 2024-09-10 08:36:45)

  • From: Germany, Tuvalu, Poland, Chile
  • Registered: 2021-07-27
  • Posts: 473

Re: firewire daisychain

Clock sync might be possible via SPDIF(c) which both interfaces support.

Yes, ramses, good point! That is right. The Firepod is able to send Wordclock via SPDIF (but with max Rate of 44.1/48kHz) then.

Edit: UCX has Coax SPDIF Connectors, so this was wrong:
Anyhow, you would have to convert the Coax to Optical (cheap adapters exist) to connect both units.

And, as you are on Windows - it makes no sense, as ramses wrote. Either you use asio4all or sth similar. And ramses is also right at this point - this is not recommend. So - there is no advantage at all by using FW daisychaining  between the Firepod and UCX on win.

An "aggregate device" seems to be only possible between Firepods by using their driver.
See: https://pae-web.presonusmusic.com/downl … owtoXP.pdf

“Do It For Her”
My Gear: Bontempi Magic light Keyboard