• Registered: 2007-07-31
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Topic: 'Playback Channels' for Outputs ...

As a DigiCheck fanatic, spanning back decades .. smile, i finally installed the driver-kit drivers for my DigifaceUSB, wanted to try out the playback channels without 'wasting' physical inputs for the loopback functionallity.

As I realized, this (obviously) does not work for anything that's generated on the interface's DSP, only for data that is sent from the computer to the interface. I my case the 2 channel output, i dedicatetd to my main stereo D/A. It's just great to have DigiCheck show everything that is coming out of my speakers  smile

My question: Will (or even _is_) there be a way, you can select f.e. 2 outputs without 'wasting' (by using loopback) the corresponding inputs for DC display?

BTW: playback channels in DC work very well, thanks you. and the driver-kit driver, i was very suspect about, semmes to be working fine also, great stuff!

DigifaceUSB/BabyfacePRO/MacMini M2Pro 12-core 32GB/Sonoma 14.7/Logic/Reaper

2 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2024-10-02 09:41:30)

  • waedi
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Re: 'Playback Channels' for Outputs ...

A DC Instrument is for display stereo channels and you can select those...
Not clear what your question is.
After your question you write it works well, so what is the question ?

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

3 Reply by cowudders (edited by cowudders 2024-10-02 09:46:41)

  • Registered: 2007-07-31
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Re: 'Playback Channels' for Outputs ...

waedi wrote:

A DC Instrument is for display stereo channels and you can select those...
Not clear what your question is.
After your question you write it works well, so what is the question ?

hi waedi!
thanks for responding.

when i enable 'playback channels' on DigiCheck (I have a Digiface USB), i only get the option to select  PLAYBACK ADAT 1-32 and PLAYBACK PHONES 1-2 as 'device channels' in the f.e. 'Spectral Analyser Inputs'. How do you select/add/set an 'Instrument'? thanks!

DigifaceUSB/BabyfacePRO/MacMini M2Pro 12-core 32GB/Sonoma 14.7/Logic/Reaper
  • Kubrak
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Re: 'Playback Channels' for Outputs ...

I do not understand the question.... What do you mean by 'Instrument'?

And do you speak about DigiCheck or DigiCheck NG?  DG NG is the newer one.

Playback in Digiface USB has just ADAT 1-32 and Phones, no other "outputs".

  • waedi
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Re: 'Playback Channels' for Outputs ...

Right-click into the instrument and type selection

https://i.ibb.co/tM8MWbz/Bildschirmfoto-2024-10-02-um-11-04-32.png

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue

6 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2024-10-02 10:21:07)

  • ramses
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Re: 'Playback Channels' for Outputs ...

cowudders wrote:
waedi wrote:

A DC Instrument is for display stereo channels and you can select those...
Not clear what your question is.
After your question you write it works well, so what is the question ?

hi waedi!
thanks for responding.

when i enable 'playback channels' on DigiCheck (I have a Digiface USB), i only get the option to select  PLAYBACK ADAT 1-32 and PLAYBACK PHONES 1-2 as 'device channels' in the f.e. 'Spectral Analyser Inputs'. How do you select/add/set an 'Instrument'? thanks!

Sorry, I do not get your point as well.

On the one hand you talk about channels and then you talk about instruments which is the new name for all the DIGIcheck tools.

Lets start with DIGIcheck NG and instruments. You need to select first, how many instruments you intend to use in an DIGIcheck NG instance.

Then for every analysis tool ("instrument") you need to select the channels, either input or playback channels.
If you want to measure outputs, then you need to select Loopback.

At least for me as Windows user this is the case, also with the old DIGIcheck, that I can only select HW input and SW playbacks.

Well and if your Digicheck USB has only 32 ADAT and 2 ANALOG channels (phones) then you will see only
32 HW inputs and
32+2 SW Playback channels

And I fear for the two phones outputs there is no possibility for loopback as a corresponding input is missing.
You should see, whether this output offers a loopback button, most likely not.

Should I have misinterpreted your question, then please rephrase in an understandable way and please do not mix the terms "instruments" and "channels".

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2007-07-31
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Re: 'Playback Channels' for Outputs ...

sorry for the confusion. really. smile

In short:  I would love to select my main _outputs_ of the Digiface as an input to Digicheck WITHOUT sacrifizing the corresponding input. A 'HARDWARE OUTPUT' stereo-pair, as labelled in TM.
On mac you always had to use loopback for this (therefore sacrifizing an input). Now DC new generation allows to select 'playback channels', that work great, but i can't select the main outs as a source this way. i still have to use 'loopback mode' of this output to get it into DigiCheck. (driver, TM and DC all are up to date).

DigifaceUSB/BabyfacePRO/MacMini M2Pro 12-core 32GB/Sonoma 14.7/Logic/Reaper

8 Reply by waedi (edited by waedi 2024-10-02 11:17:18)

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Re: 'Playback Channels' for Outputs ...

You don't need to use Loopback you can choose Adat 1 to 32 every channel.
You may have to know wich channel you did assign to main-out.
Then select that number.
Digicheck does not read out Totalmix, it can't know wich channel you did assign to Main-out.
In Totalmix control room bottom right side the big button ASSIGN, click there to find out what is assigned.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • Registered: 2007-07-31
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Re: 'Playback Channels' for Outputs ...

waedi wrote:

You don't need to use Loopback you can choose Adat 1 to 32 every channel.
You may have to know wich channel you did assign to main-out.
Then select that number.
Digicheck does not read out Totalmix, it can't know wich channel you did assign to Main-out.
In Totalmix control room bottom right side the big button ASSIGN, click there to find out what is assigned.

i just want to assign, in my case, everything that's coming out of HARDWARE OUTPUT ADAT 25/26 (which goes to my benchmark D/A converter) as an input to DigiCheck. As if i would insert DigiCheck between the output of the Digiface and the input of my D/A converter.
That's all. The Mix of everything: software playback, hardware inputs, everything.
with loopback i can do that, but loose inputs ADAT 25/26 (in my case).
with 'playback channels' i only get the option to select 'software playback' streams that are coming from the computer into totalmix, not everthing that totalmix puts out.

so i'm asking if this would be possible to add or if there's a hardware limitation, etc...

DigifaceUSB/BabyfacePRO/MacMini M2Pro 12-core 32GB/Sonoma 14.7/Logic/Reaper
  • waedi
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Re: 'Playback Channels' for Outputs ...

Ah I see. Yes you are right, you still have to use a Loopback to monitor hardware output channels.

Digicheck directly only access input channels and playback - at moment

If RME will upgrade this functionality ? Who knows...

I would say, yes, please, it would be a useful feature.

M1-Sequoia, Madiface Pro, Digiface USB, Babyface silver and blue
  • Registered: 2007-07-31
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Re: 'Playback Channels' for Outputs ...

waedi wrote:

Ah I see. Yes you are right, you still have to use a Loopback to monitor hardware output channels.

Digicheck directly only access input channels and playback - at moment

If RME will upgrade this functionality ? Who knows...

I would say, yes, please, it would be a useful feature.

exactly!

DigifaceUSB/BabyfacePRO/MacMini M2Pro 12-core 32GB/Sonoma 14.7/Logic/Reaper

12 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2024-10-03 12:41:03)

  • ramses
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Re: 'Playback Channels' for Outputs ...

I suspect that there is a good reason for this, otherwise RME would have already implemented it. At the latest, with the new implementation of DIGICheck (DIGICheck NG for Windows and Apple) it would have been possible to incorporate this now.

This probably has to do with how DIGICheck accesses or can only access the data.

I assume it's because the audio data from HW inputs and SW playbacks are directly accessible by the PC by reading audio data from HW inputs and writing data to the SW playback channels.

This is not the case with the HW outputs, as you can also route audio data from inputs in "near real-time" directly on the recording interface without increased latency (RTL) over the PC.

Perhaps this makes the difference that data of the HW outputs must first be sent back to the inputs via loopback to be "complete". Otherwise, you might get only SW playback data and not the direct routing of audio data from HW inputs to HW outputs, which happens directly on the recording interface.

Does this also make sense for you?

Perhaps RME can briefly explain/clarify why this is not possible, as there is interest in such a functionality for DIGICheck to directly analyze data from HW outputs without using loopback. Many thanks.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2010-01-28
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Re: 'Playback Channels' for Outputs ...

So the manual made me waste time trying to get my hardware outputs meter ...
So it's still only with loopback ?

17. DIGICheck NG Mac
The DIGICheck software is a unique utility developed for testing, measuring and analysing digital audio streams. Although the software is fairly self-explanatory, it still includes a comprehensive online help. DIGICheck NG 0.90 operates in parallel to any software, showing all input data. The following is a short summary of the currently available functions:
 Level Meter. High precision 24-bit resolution, 2/8/94 channels. Application examples: Peak level measurement, RMS level measurement, over-detection, phase correlation measure- ment, dynamic range and signal-to-noise ratios, RMS to peak difference (loudness), long term peak measurement, input check. Oversampling mode for levels higher than 0 dBFS. Vertical and horizontal mode. Slow RMS and RLB weighting filter. Supports visualization according to the K-System.
 Hardware Level Meter for Input, Playback and Output. Reference Level Meter freely con- figurable, causing near zero CPU load, because calculated from the Fireface hardware.

14 Reply by MC

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Re: 'Playback Channels' for Outputs ...

The Mac DriverKit driver allows direct playback reading.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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  • Registered: 2010-01-28
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Re: 'Playback Channels' for Outputs ...

Thanks Mathias.
I'm using the Kernel driver so I understand why it's not working.
is this low level driver will be one day stopped by apple ?
I must admit that it's very stable.