1 (edited by jwatilo 2009-11-01 09:41:58)

Topic: Windows 7 64bit + HDSPe + Multiface I : Is this combination supported?

Greetings.

I've been in driver hell today, trying to install the driver for my HDSPe ExpressCard on a laptop running Windows 7 64-bit.

I've tried using both firmware versions 17 and 18.  In either case, as soon as the device is accessed I get a BSOD (although version 17 of the firmware does actually generate sound for a few seconds before the crash).

I'm using the driver described as follows:

Windows WDM streaming driver (32/64 Bit)
Windows XP, XP64, Vista, Vista 64, Windows 7. Supports ALL HDSP and HDSPe cards/systems!

Version 3.082, 10/20/2009

Now that I look at this description a bit closer, it dawns on me that it doesn't explicity say "64" for Windows 7 while it does for both XP and Vista.  Is that my problem?  Does this driver NOT support the 64-bit version of Windows 7?

If anyone has insights, I would certainly appreciate it.  I've been running this combination of hardware just fine on Windows XP Pro (32-bit) for a long time with great success.  It would be a shame if can't use 64-bit Windows 7...

Regards,
John

2 (edited by Foosh 2009-11-02 03:41:23)

Re: Windows 7 64bit + HDSPe + Multiface I : Is this combination supported?

Hi, just to confirm it works for me to a point. my symptoms/system are not the same as yours (older PCMCIA cardbus/digiface) however with win7 RTM 64-bit I've got the same WDM streaming driver working as far as directsound is concerned, however, no joy with ASIO and no midi, I didn't have to do anything abnormal other than install the driver and reseat the cardbus to get to this stage.. (http://www.rme-audio.de/forum/viewtopic.php?id=6716)

I did find an earlier driver elsewhere 3.075 also for 64-bit but it still didn't make any difference... you might like to try it though. link below

http://driverscollection.com/?H=HDSP%20 … amp;By=RME

I'd be interested to know how it goes for you..

also the BSOD could be related to your PCMCIA driver/hardware?... is there a filename mentioned near the end line of the BSOD?.. (by BSOD can you tell me if it says it's a fatal exception, illegal operation etc.. usually the first line. a xxx has occurred at....)

Re: Windows 7 64bit + HDSPe + Multiface I : Is this combination supported?

Thanks for the info, Foosh.  My problem was a page fault in hdsp_64.sys.

BUT, I've managed to get things working but, like you, to a point.  The problem with Windows 7 is that, when it doesn't find a driver for a device, it doesn't ask you at that moment what to do - so you can't point it to a driver location on disk.  Instead it goes ahead and finishes and gives you that "Unknown Audio Device" entry.

In another post, the instructions were to delete that item, then reboot with the idea that Windows would ask you where to load the drivers from.  That's fine for Windows XP (and maybe Vista - I don't know since I skipped that OS).  But again, Windows 7 doesn't give you that opportunity.

So, what I did was delete "Unknown Audio Device", and then (before rebooting), install as what Windows 7 calls a "legacy driver", pointing to the location on disk, and THEN reboot in SAFE MODE, go into the device manager and remove what is now correctly identified as the "RME Hammerfall DSP" entry.  Only then can you reboot normally, and Windows 7 will now automatically reinstall the driver correctly.

So now, my Multiface/HDSPe ExpressCard combo is working fine for general Windows audio tasks.  And DigiCheck seems to be able to record multichannel audio okay without any problems.  So, I'm ALMOST there.

My only roadblock now is Cubase.  I've been trying the Cubase 4 64-bit version but using the ASIO driver immediately locks up my system.  Using the ASIO WDM version works better, but as soon as I use the MIDI inputs I once again lock completely up.  My suspicion is that the Cubase 4 64-bit version may have not been quite ready for prime time, so I've ordered Cubase 5.  As soon as it arrives, I will install the 64 bit version and see what kind of results I get. 

I'm crossing my fingers!  But it would be nice to know if the combination of [ Windows 7 64-bit / RME HDSPe ExpressCard / Multiface 1 / Cubase 5 64-bit / ASIO ] has been successfully used by anyone yet or even tested by someone at RME...

I'll keep you posted!

Regards,
John

Re: Windows 7 64bit + HDSPe + Multiface I : Is this combination supported?

Good stuff... that's an installation method I haven't tried and it does make sense if it's necessary for dirver installation to happen on win7 startup, I've been deleting all HDSP*.* files in system/system32, manually registry entries, restarting etc and then updating the driver in dev manager or choosing location etc as you mentioned, I'll play around on that tip, cheers

Have you tried cubase 4 (32-bit)?... it should still work by rights, I have a Motu 2408mkIII audio interface also, everything works fine in Windows 7 including ASIO with cubase 4 (32-bit) I think that rules out cubase pointing us back to RME, our systems or ourselves!...

Re: Windows 7 64bit + HDSPe + Multiface I : Is this combination supported?

Just an update for those who may be having similar issues...

I did install 32-bit Cubase 4 on my W7/64 partition but in this case I couldn't even select the ASIO drivers for RME.

But I DID install Reaper/64 and found that the ASIO drivers worked great and so did MIDI.  So at this point it's looking more and more like Cubase 4/64-bit is simply garbage - which is not unexpected since it was Steiny's first 64bit version and was made available from their website as sort of an afterthought.  I'm hoping to discover that Steinberg worked out their 64-bit issues with Cubase 5.  I'll find out when it gets here.

Stay tuned for further details as they unfold...

Regards,
John

Re: Windows 7 64bit + HDSPe + Multiface I : Is this combination supported?

An update on my situation.  No, Cubase 5 has not yet arrived.

HOWEVER, this supposed 64-bit driver is being incredibly flaky.  It works for a short time and then just goes silent and disappears from Device Manager. 

Also, when that happens, I can open up the input card select dialog in DigiCheck and still see the "ASIO Hammerfall DSP" in the dropdown box - HOWEVER, the device listed is "HDSP MADI".  The only way to recover is to boot into safe mode, reinstall it as a legacy driver, turn around and remove it from Device Manager, then reboot again.  Not really worth it, though, since it will go dead not too long afterwards...

As driver installations go, this has got to be the most heinous procedure ever, but even I could put up with it if the end result is a WORKING piece of hardware.

Is there anyone - especially from RME - that can tell me that this 64-bit driver for the HDSPe ExpressCard has actually been TESTED and found to be WORKING on a Windows 7 64-bit system?  Especially with Multiface 1?  Is there an updated driver on the horizon?

Maybe I'll go try that older driver that Foosh mentioned...

sad

Re: Windows 7 64bit + HDSPe + Multiface I : Is this combination supported?

Crap.

Well, 64-bit driver version 3.079 is also a bust.  Even worse than 3.082.

So, I guess I'll be waiting for the NEXT driver update, whenever that will be...   sad

8

Re: Windows 7 64bit + HDSPe + Multiface I : Is this combination supported?

If I sum up all your given information there is no driver problem at all. If the hardware vanishes from the system (as seen in Device Manager) then either your notebook or the ExpressCard have a problem. Might be power or heat related.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Windows 7 64bit + HDSPe + Multiface I : Is this combination supported?

Hello, Matthias.

Thanks for looking in on this thread. 

I might have been tempted to consider the notion of some problem with the notebook, ExpressCard, or even the MultiFace; HOWEVER, when I boot up the same hardware in a Windows XP partition, everything is stable and rock-steady over many hours of uptime, using a number of different audio applications (WaveLab, Cubase 4, Reaper, WinAmp, WMP, etc.).

Therefore, I am forced to conclude that there is some instability in the 64-bit driver on Windows 7.

Any other ideas?

Regards,
John

Re: Windows 7 64bit + HDSPe + Multiface I : Is this combination supported?

Just an update on my situation...

This weekend I created another boot partition on the same laptop, same HDSPe ExpressCard, and same Multiface-1 breakout box, and installed the 32-bit version of Windows 7, along with the RME driver.

This time, it actually worked for a few minutes before crashing.  So it's only slightly better than the 64-bit version.

Therefore, I can only conclude that Windows 7 and the HDSPe/Hammerfall DSP combination are simply not ready to play together.  I've searched high and low and can't seem to find anyone who is using this combination successfully.  Apparently not even RME, since they don't have have a valid procedure outlined anywhere for installing the driver under Windows 7.

If anyone has any experience otherwise, please take a minute and let me know your success story.  Otherwise, I guess I'll be waiting for the next driver revision (and perhaps a solid installation procedure as well).

Regards,
John

Re: Windows 7 64bit + HDSPe + Multiface I : Is this combination supported?

Came accross this thread through google whilst trying to diagnose my problem.
decided to rebuild my studio machine with an xp drive boot for studio stuff and a windows 7 drive to play around with.
decided after being pleasantly suprised by windows 7 after vista hell, i decided to brave it and try and get my studio all going with w7.

I have a problem in that my HDSP9652 is installed fine, but Nuendo does not recognise (or indeed provide it as an option to select) the RME ASIO Driver. Consequently I can't access the inputs/outputs through Nuendo.

12

Re: Windows 7 64bit + HDSPe + Multiface I : Is this combination supported?

Is that Win 7 32 or 64? Which Nuendo version? Do other ASIO applications work? Try DIGICheck.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Windows 7 64bit + HDSPe + Multiface I : Is this combination supported?

Well, yesterday I had an interesting experience.  This time, on Windows 7 64bit, I decided to try running DigiCheck in Windows XP compatibility mode.  Lo and behold, it didn't lock up my system and "lose" the driver after less than a minute during playback, as I was regularly experiencing before.

So, I started going on the theory that if I ran the host applications in XP compatibility mode, the driver *might* work after all.  So, I fired up Cubase 5 and started recording some tracks.  With each 16-bar track of my spontaneous test jam, I started getting more and more encouraged.  Latency was great, performance meters were holding at a fairly low level, I was getting more and more excited!  In fact, I was about ready to come back here and report my success when....BAM!  Complete system freeze while playing back a mere 5 tracks of my new mini-opus (I wasn't even recording anything new at the time). And, as usual, the same old disappearing driver routine.  The only way to reset is to boot into safe mode, delete the driver from device manager, reboot a second time and let Windows 7 find it again and then have me reboot yet a third time to finish the re-installation.

Sigh...so much for that theory.

At least Michael Tippach's ASIO4ALL driver is stable with the laptop's built-in RealTek sound controller.  A lot of good that does me, though.

Re: Windows 7 64bit + HDSPe + Multiface I : Is this combination supported?

Incidentally, to ensure that Cubase or any other host application was not the problem, I tried a test using only DigiCheck, playing back a multi-channel wave file.  Sure enough, after about 8 to 10 playbacks, the system died.

Re: Windows 7 64bit + HDSPe + Multiface I : Is this combination supported?

Merry Christmas, RME!
Any chance there's a fixed driver under the tree???
smile

16 (edited by Million 2010-01-31 20:33:10)

Re: Windows 7 64bit + HDSPe + Multiface I : Is this combination supported?

So what are we saying here?

HDSP doesnt work with windows7 64bit?

my combo would be HDSP & cardbus, was going to buy a pci card tho as im about to build a machine with win7 64bit.

Am i right in thinking after ready this forum that people on win7 64 are having major problems with drivers?

or is this software releated?

How is it with lesser version of win7?
cheers

Re: Windows 7 64bit + HDSPe + Multiface I : Is this combination supported?

damn, and I was seriously considering getting the AES-32 pci express card.  What's the deal with none of these manufacturers being able to figure out win7 64-bit.

Re: Windows 7 64bit + HDSPe + Multiface I : Is this combination supported?

I have this same setup, on a new core i7 laptop.  I still haven't solved several other problems software problems, but MIDI and audio are working.  I think Windows 7 64-bit is buggy for this configuration.  I haven't been able to properly install Sonar 64-bit, and so had to use 32-bit.  And under Sonar, the midi isn't input monitored correctly.  Notes drop or disappear.  However, this could be due to the midi device - a DMPro which occasionally sends notes of duration=0.  Are you getting midi events showing up on your MIDI STATE LED indicators?

Re: Windows 7 64bit + HDSPe + Multiface I : Is this combination supported?

Million wrote:

So what are we saying here?
HDSP doesnt work with windows7 64bit?

Not sure how you come to this (incorrect) general conclusion... jwatilo's issues do not mean tere is a general incompatibilit or so.


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: Windows 7 64bit + HDSPe + Multiface I : Is this combination supported?

Hi,
I came to ths conclusion by reading the forum and speaking to users, jwatilo's problem is not the 1st i have encountered on here and elsewhere, before i go out and spend a stack on a new system, i want to be 100% sure that its going to work, i also need to buy a pci card now im going to a tower instead of a laptop, again these arnt cheap so if im spending in the regon of ?1000 on new gear i want it to work, and there be a seamless transiton from my laptop system to a tower.

are there any issues with certian motherboards that i might need to know about for making a purchase?

RME obviously tests certain systems builds with their cards when in dev/test ect.

You should supply a system build config so when people go about upgrading they know exactly what works and what doesnt, i can undertand that you cant test everything, but you must have a tower/laptop spec that works @ rme HQ?

info on this and pointing people in the right direction might influence people when they come to purchasing any of your products.

cheers

Re: Windows 7 64bit + HDSPe + Multiface I : Is this combination supported?

Million,

I can let you know right now, the X58 chipset is giving a lot of these manufacturers headaches.  They just can't figure it out, RME included.  Do yourself a favor and don't get this chipset on your motherboard if you're dead set on getting an HDSP card.  To me, that's a big setback because the X58 chipset and core i7 are the hottest combination of chipet/processor on the market at this time, especially for ultra high performance music production.  I think RME, and other manufacturers should tackle the problem instead of writing it off as incompatible.  It isn't going anywhere for quite some time.

Re: Windows 7 64bit + HDSPe + Multiface I : Is this combination supported?

Hey Fslix

thanks for the heads up:-)

I already own a multi face 1 and pcmcia cardbus combo, which i have been running on various dell laptops since the multifaces were available, apart from being sold a dead unit in the 1st instance from a distributor, this card has been outstanding and I've never had any hastle at all with it.

Its now time for an upgrade, I want to keep one laptop running the multiface with cardbuss for live stuff, and was going to build a new tower from scratch for production use, i really wanted to get another massive laptop, but after reading all the stories on here of probs with new pce interfaces on new lappys i've decided to stay well clear, I'm not a rich man, spending ?1000 plus on a peice of kit im going to have lots of trouble with and spend the next few months figuring it out really isn't what i want to spend my spare time doing and my pocket/sanity wouldn't take it.

At the moment i'm running the hdsp on a p4 dell laptop, its works great for most stuff, but i need more cpu power now as projects start to get more complicated. ( i even had decent results from a 1ghz dell lappy in the early days)

So i thought, build a tower, now im reading theres problems with this, problems with that, i want x64bit win 7 to take advantage of the massive ram i can install, but no-one seems to be able to come up with a definitive answer to what works out of the box.

If there's a problem, RME and other manufacturers should own up to it and fix it or steer users/buyers around it, i'm not sure the support coming onto the forum and leaving flippant remarks like "Not sure how you come to this (incorrect) general conclusion..." is conducive of support, time would be better spent putting a list together of incompatibilitys.

I'm not trying to rubbish RME here as i'm a fan of the kit because its worked for me for probably 10 years, i'm not sure how much more research i can do reading and posting on forums to try and get answers, i need to buy a new system and get on with it all.

These posts on here, they just not a great advert for RME, if i was buying new, i wouldn't go near them. somebody needs to have a word and put all this right.

Re: Windows 7 64bit + HDSPe + Multiface I : Is this combination supported?

is this chipset compatable?
Intel? H55 Express Chipset
cheers

24 (edited by fslix 2010-02-01 17:58:36)

Re: Windows 7 64bit + HDSPe + Multiface I : Is this combination supported?

Yeah, I wish there wasn't a cop out either.  Either support it, or put a big bold disclaimer telling folks that you're stuff is not compatible with it.  Why beat around the bush?

I dont know about the H55, but people are having some luck with Lynx's AES16 and Win 7, 64-bit.  You may want to give that a shot, although it's not bullet proof either.  Just remember, whatever you buy, you can run into problems even if your research said you wouldn't.  Also, you may do something out of the norm, and may get it to work anyhow.  I got the Lynx AES16e to work in a mostly stable fashion even though I am running the X58 chipset, so it can be done.  The 64-bit transition is harder for some companies than others.  Spectrasonics, makers of Omnisphere VST and Trillian have managed to make their whole software line 64-bit while other companies are struglging to come to grips with it.  The same thing is happening in the hardware world.  Win 7  64 has been out for quite a while now and they're still having major issues getting their stuff to run on this thing.

Re: Windows 7 64bit + HDSPe + Multiface I : Is this combination supported?

Buying another card is out of the question for me i'm afraid. i need something that works with the hdsp i already have.

so RME, any advice on what chipset you know to be working?, or any other users on here have a list?

cheers

26 (edited by jcschild 2010-02-02 17:12:48)

Re: Windows 7 64bit + HDSPe + Multiface I : Is this combination supported?

fslix wrote:

Million,

I can let you know right now, the X58 chipset is giving a lot of these manufacturers headaches.  They just can't figure it out, RME included.  Do yourself a favor and don't get this chipset on your motherboard if you're dead set on getting an HDSP card.  To me, that's a big setback because the X58 chipset and core i7 are the hottest combination of chipet/processor on the market at this time, especially for ultra high performance music production.  I think RME, and other manufacturers should tackle the problem instead of writing it off as incompatible.  It isn't going anywhere for quite some time.

BULLCRAP. sorry man but this is completely incorrect.

we have been selling X58 platform for over a yr i have never has issues with X58/P55 and RME with Xp/Vista or Win 7 32 bit or 64bit on the right motherboard.

also lets not confuse the issue.

the OP has a laptop. Most Laptops are known to have serious issues with the Express slot being undervolted and underperforming (resource sharing)
this is NOT an RME drive issue but rather a crappy laptop bios.

Rme is and has been the most stable low latency drivers of anyone.

Scott
ADK

Re: Windows 7 64bit + HDSPe + Multiface I : Is this combination supported?

Hello,

Million wrote:

Its now time for an upgrade, I want to keep one laptop running the multiface with cardbuss for live stuff, and was going to build a new tower from scratch for production use, i really wanted to get another massive laptop, but after reading all the stories on here of probs with new pce interfaces on new lappys i've decided to stay well clear, I'm not a rich man, spending ?1000 plus on a peice of kit im going to have lots of trouble with and spend the next few months figuring it out really isn't what i want to spend my spare time doing and my pocket/sanity wouldn't take it.

Good valid points, but please consider that the issue is less one of the RME cards, but the fact that (as Scott will confirm) most modern laptops aren't really designed with professional audio applications in mind... You're looking at an enormous oversupply of different laptop models with half-life periods of three and a half months, at ever-decreasing prices.  And to save money, manufacturers will economize, e.g. on the Firewire chipsets (anyone seen major-brand laptops with TI recently?)... These machines are meant for the "multimedia" enthusiast who wants to be entertained with videos and game-playing. So if you don't buy your studio gear at Walmart or whatever, would you expect to find sophisticated professional audio laptops in such a shop? If you think the answer is no, you might want to look for specialized retailers of audio computers. One is active right here in this very thread, and if you're in the US, he'll gladly help you find a suitable laptop. The extra money you might spend compared to the Walmart laptop will be saved in terms of time not wasted on configuring/optimizing.

At the moment i'm running the hdsp on a p4 dell laptop, its works great for most stuff, but i need more cpu power now as projects start to get more complicated. ( i even had decent results from a 1ghz dell lappy in the early days)

I happily use a 900 Mhz PIII Toshiba for multitrack classical recording, and I don't intend to change that anytime soon... One piece of solid hardware, records without glitches for hours and hours....

So i thought, build a tower, now im reading theres problems with this, problems with that,

On a support forum, what else are you likely to read? According to the customer feedback in my email inbox, none of this stuff ever works at all, but that's just because all those customers whose gear just works without problems usually don't send mail to customer support to report back. :roll

If there's a problem, RME and other manufacturers should own up to it and fix it or steer users/buyers around it, i'm not sure the support coming onto the forum and leaving flippant remarks like "Not sure how you come to this (incorrect) general conclusion..." is conducive of support, time would be better spent putting a list together of incompatibilitys.

Your appeared to conclude that there was a general issue of HDSP devices/drivers with W7, which is simply not the case, hence my comment. jwatilo's issue in this thread might just be an individual issue of one specific hardware combination, not indicative of a general problem.

Of course, when we do come across a general incompatibility (e.g. the issue with Agere/LSI FW chipsets on Macs, we do act and publish warnings here. We can not, however, continuously test new hardware, esp. in all kinds of combinations of chipsets, VGA cards, etc.

I'm not trying to rubbish RME here as i'm a fan of the kit because its worked for me for probably 10 years, i'm not sure how much more research i can do reading and posting on forums to try and get answers, i need to buy a new system and get on with it all.

There is really only one solution for you: Buy your system from an audio PC specialist, if you don't have the time to research and configure. Trying to find the perfect one-stop solution by reading about problems other users have with their hardware is not going to lead to success, no doubt about that.

A general statement about "compatibility" of a certain isolated chipset is fairly pointless IMHO. I guess/hope Scott can confirm that also...

Sincerely,
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: Windows 7 64bit + HDSPe + Multiface I : Is this combination supported?

Hello, it's me again!

Well, I believe I've managed to cure my problem with alot of trial and error.  The culprit:

  Microsoft ACPI-Compliant Control Method Battery

Or, so it would appear.  So, if anyone with similar issues stumbles upon this thread, you just might try going into Device Manager and disabling this device.  But that probably won't be enough; most likely, you'll need to completely eradicate the RME driver and go through the whole painful reinstallation process again.

Anyway, this is what I did, and now my audio seems to be stable under W7/64.  Obviously, we're talking about laptop users.

Regards,
John

Re: Windows 7 64bit + HDSPe + Multiface I : Is this combination supported?

http://www.rme-audio.de/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3437
Haven't seen this cause issue like this, though...

Regards,
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME