Topic: Settings dialog text too large

Hi,

I have a weird problem I can't figure out.

The FF400 settings dialog can be opened but the text is too large therefore some of the settings are off the screen. As the dialog box cannot be resized I cannot access settings to the right and the bottom of the box.

I have checked the Windows 7 DPI settings and I'm set to 100% so it can't be that. My theme is the default Windows Aero.

I'm also getting random BSOD relating to the ohci driver but just read a post asking me to change to the legacy driver. I've done this will see how it goes.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks.

2

Re: Settings dialog text too large

You might use normal font size, but you changed the font itself...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Settings dialog text too large

I don't recall changing any fonts, and I cannot seem to find an option to do this. Can you point me in the right direction please.

Re: Settings dialog text too large

Okay I have found the font settings and all fonts seem to be set to their default setting of Segoe UI with a size of 9, which I believe is the Windows 7 default. Again I have check my DPI is at 100%, the Fireface box text appears to be larger than all other text within Windows. This is the only application where there seems to be an issue. This is very odd. Any other thoughts?

5

Re: Settings dialog text too large

You use the Win7 Aero Design (the default)? Otherwise I don't know, sorry.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Settings dialog text too large

I am using Windows Aero default. All other dialogs appear correctly, Fireface settings seems to have larger text than any other dialog. Is there some registry settings for the fonts in the FF settings?

7

Re: Settings dialog text too large

No, sorry. There must be something special with your system, and you will find other dialogs that have the same problem sooner or later, as the Settings dialog uses a standard dialog form from MS (not so popular anymore).

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Settings dialog text too large

OK thanks for your help, I'll keep hunting and post back if I find anything incase anyone else comes across this issue. For information my system is a new Sony Vaio Z series, and I am using the preinstalled operating system without changing any display settings, so I suspect anyone else who has this notebook with a fireface will experience the same issue. Perhaps my only option is a fresh reinstall.

Re: Settings dialog text too large

Try hooking the FF400 up to another system.  This will confirm whether it is specific to your system.  Try another brand/model of computer to be certain.

10 (edited by riiv 2010-04-19 16:32:33)

Re: Settings dialog text too large

Hi all

I have the same problem with the settings dialog of FireFace UC. I tried it on two different notebooks (two different brands). I also tried with different screen resolutions and system font sizes.

It seems that the font and field sizes do not resize properly. I am a software programmer and such issues usually have its cause in some 'hard-wired' windows programming, where system context of the underlying os is not taken into consideration. In my opinion it is definitively not an issue of the pcs/notebooks/setups we are using but an issue of the software.

Update on 19.04.2010:
I changed in extended display settings the font size for dialogs to the smallest size possible (again on two completely different notebooks). After my setup change, all dialogs of other software showed smaller texts accordingly. The Settings Dialog didn't change at all, thus corroborating my theory that the system's context is not taken into consideration in this program. By the way: I have absolutely no display problems with TotalMix!

Re: Settings dialog text too large

RME can you comment on this please.

12

Re: Settings dialog text too large

My comment above is still valid. We need to know what is different on your system than all the other multiple ten thousands users worldwide that have no problem.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Settings dialog text too large

Hello Mathias,

I have the same problem on an i7 920, Win 7 Ultimate system, so x0,000 - 1!!

This did not happen with the Win 7 RC, though I cannot remember which drivers it did not occur with.
NO other dialogs, including the mixer, show this.
The contents of the panels appear to be expanded by ~15%

The dialog is impervious to changes in the Window Color and Appearance dialog, which seems to support riiv's assertions.

14 (edited by riiv 2010-04-24 19:21:53)

Re: Settings dialog text too large

Hi all

I knew that I was right but as usual in these days clients have to prove that they are right as vendors (in this case RME) more and more just state that ?multiple ten thousands of users worldwide do not have your problem? and as a conclusion ?the problem is your system? (or you) and not with the vendor's product!

Even though I stated that I made tests with different systems and that I am software developer the only (and very superficial) answer of MC is repeating all the time the same message.

As a consequence I analysed and in the end tweaked RME?s Settings Dialog program and here is the result:

First, the Settings Dialog program delivered by RME:

[img align=Settings Dialog by RME]http://i43.tinypic.com/2a8i4xl.png[/img]

Second, the same Settings Dialog program tweaked by me:

[img align=Settings Dialog by RME (tweaked)]http://i39.tinypic.com/2unvskg.png[/img]

So what was the reason? As many users already reported, changing any sort of settings didn't influence the behaviour of the Settings Dialog. Why? Because the Settings Dialog doesn't take the OS context into consideration. Up to Windows XP the "standard" dialog font was "MS Sans Serif". From Vista and Windows 7 on the standard dialog font changed to "Segoe UI" which has a significantly smaller footprint to accomodate higher resolutions of these days.

Every Windows programmer knows (except the one who programmed Settings Dialog) that it has to take OS context into consideration. In this case it would mean: If the program is running with Windows XP or earlier use ?MS Sans Serif?. If the program is running with Vista or later OS use ?Segoe UI?.

I edited the resources directly within the Settings Dialog Exe File in order to use ?Segoe UI? instead of ?MS Sans Serif?.

So, in the end, the client did the job of the vendor for free?

MC, you should be glad that I anticipated a problem RME will have when "multiple ten thousands of worldwide XP users" will upgrade to Windows 7.

15

Re: Settings dialog text too large

riiv,

I never said 'the problem is your system', and I did not state it is 'not with the vendors product'. Some new glasses might be in order?

I never denied that changing the settings will not change the Settings dialog - this has always been the case, font and size are programmed fixed into it. The simple reason is that all elements (checkboxes, radiobuttons, dialog buttons) are not resizable, so the font and size is not allowed to change. As said earlier this is an old-style dialogbox, still allowed to use and also used by many other programs.

I just clearly stated that we need to know what is different on your system to be able to fix it. We have no time to reprogram the Settings dialog, so if at all a small workaround would be added. For this we need to know what triggers the wrong size. Your fix is no fix at all. Apart from that we all work on standard W7 machines ourselves and no one has that problem, changing the font to another one might still cause problems for people who change the font size or change the font itself. And on most other W7 machines the dialog just comes up correctly.

If at all then it would seem that MS Sans Serif is not on your machine(s) or altered from the version that is on our machines.

That said I googled a bit and might have found the cause of the problem and the solution. Read these links:

https://forums.codegear.com/thread.jspa … eID=219445

http://social.technet.microsoft.com/For … 4623d98880

http://www.eggheadcafe.com/software/asp … ows-7.aspx

http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums … 5a0a45eec6

In short: check the registry key HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Fonts
for having the string 'MS Sans Serif 8,10,12,14,18,24' with 'SSERIFE.FON' as value.

And I deleted the stupid reply from Mr. Sokaris. He might want to apologize for the utter nonsense that he posted, otherwise just don't post again.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Settings dialog text too large

MC

If I understand you correctly (citations of your answers):

- "Settings dialog uses a standard dialog form from MS (not so popular anymore)"
- "is an old-style dialogbox"
- "We have no time to reprogram the Settings dialog"

and consequently (my interpretation of your answers):

- Even though you are clients and have spent a lot of money for our products, you have to hack into your registry to solve our no more up-to-date program.

I will neither further comment on that nor follow anymore this thread. RME is not willing to do anything in this area? It is fine for me and I will base (as I always do) my future decisions on vendor's behavior and attitude.

Just a very last comment: It is very interesting to see that you made some investigation only after my work and not earlier?

17

Re: Settings dialog text too large

Ok, now that riiv bite the dust would someone else with this error please check if it is indeed a wrong registry entry for MS Sans Serif (no '8' in it) and check if the proposed fix will remove this problem?

Thanks.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Settings dialog text too large

Hi,

I found this link interesting and explaining here from Matthias above posting links

http://blogs.msdn.com/developingfordyna … cs-gp.aspx

I will check here with my Windows 7 Home Premium 32-bit to see what's written in the register.

regards S-EH

Re: Settings dialog text too large

So this is clearly a Microsoft bug, but also RME is programming dialog boxes in an ancient method. So Microsoft you need to fix this for compatibility reasons with old software, and RME you need to update your software to use current methods as your latest control panel was released in January so you cannot class this as old software needing compatibilty from the OS, and it seems lazy that no-one has updated the control panel to use current dialog display methods, especially for products of this value.

As Riiv said, most people using RME hardware are probably sticking with tried and tested XP for now, but soon a lot of people will be upgrading to Windows 7, and RME that is when you will get endless complaints, because I imagine most people with RME hardware, also have high resolution monitors.

I shouldn't have to be messing with registry hacks and changes on current software, or posting on forums and reading links about fonts and registry, I just want to change the settings on my Fireface and record some music.

20

Re: Settings dialog text too large

Hello Matthias,

it's not so a good idea to use the MS Sans Serif font in today's software. Just use the MS Shell Dlg font, which will use the font which is configured in Windows control panel (Tahoma typically on an XP system). The advantage is that the font is the same as in every standard Windows dialog and normally a true type font is used. All the hassle comes from MS Sans Serif being a bitmapped font.

And beleive me, this takes a bout 3 seconds in Visual Studio.

Cheers
Axel

21

Re: Settings dialog text too large

So you tested that the fixed elements of this dialog give full text content also in Japan and China? HeadScratch

MS Sans Serif guarantees that... :-)

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

22

Re: Settings dialog text too large

benofishal wrote:

but soon a lot of people will be upgrading to Windows 7, and RME that is when you will get endless complaints, because I imagine most people with RME hardware, also have high resolution monitors.

I don't disagree with what you said, but have to correct this statement. These days everyone has a hi-resolution monitor. The point is that the error only shows up when your graphics card is natively supported to run in hi-resolution mode during Windows installation. And that seems to be a seldom case. Otherwise the forum would be full of complains about that. We really have lots of Windows 7 users already.

BTW, IF this turns out to be the problem (did it fix yours?) we could provide a simple (reg) file on our website. Double-click and one reboot and everything would be ok. Nobody is forced to edit the registry then.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

23

Re: Settings dialog text too large

MC wrote:

So you tested that the fixed elements of this dialog give full text content also in Japan and China? HeadScratch

MS Sans Serif guarantees that... :-)

Why don't you test it? :-)

The problem with MS Sans Serif is that it's not a TTF.

And I guess that it's MS Sans Serif not because of whhat you think it gurantess, but because it's the default setting in VC6. Since VC7 the default is MS Shell Dlg.

Just be nice and give it a try. cool

Cheers
Axel

Re: Settings dialog text too large

Mathias,


You are a bully and a coward!


BULLY
A bully because you attempted to badger customers into trying to explain what was different in their systems from umpteen thousand others - something they could not possibly do, especially given the wide variation in DAW configurations.

You were right, it was something they did, but since it was an obscure Windows 'feature' that kicked in unbeknownst to them, they could be forgiven for thinking it was an RME issue, especially as the two dialog boxes behaved differently directly due to RME choosing to use different underlying technology for each.

That no-one at RME has had this issue just indicates you must all be using single small screens on your Win 7 systems - hardly covering the gamut of customer systems. So your dismissive comments about it not affecting your Win 7 systems - thus implying that there is therefore no problem with using Win 7 and RME dialogs - was rather premature, as you just haven't applied the configurations that customers will likely use.

When a customer (riiv) showed that it could be changed, only then did you actually start doing something about it, but not without first having a go at him as well. It was not hard to tell that he was frustrated with your fobbing off customers rather than taking control of the situation.


COWARD
A coward because you delete my post then make dismissive and derisive comments about it without allowing other readers of your comments to judge for themselves.



With RME and Steinberg, some really custmer-hostile elements seem to be taking over, where customers are treated with contempt and when they try to get some action on their concerns, are basically told to solve it themselves. Such arrogance.


BTW. The full reg file as per the first link did the trick.


only shows up when your graphics card is natively supported to run in hi-resolution mode during Windows installation. And that seems to be a seldom case

I have a couple of slightly older nVidia cards and Dell monitors - something I would imagine is not so rare.

25

Re: Settings dialog text too large

All the posts above show that I never went 'against' someone, but got early on attacked by riiv for no reason. Both you and him seem to be masters of reading things out of simple statements that are just not there.

> That no-one at RME has had this issue just indicates you must all be using single small screens on your Win 7 systems

How can you expect me (us) to take you seriously after a childish comment like that?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Settings dialog text too large

Poor MC, if you consider my replies in this thread as attacks.

My 'early attacks' must be very well hidden somewhere as I do not find them in my early replies.

If anything could be considered 'attacks' from my side, then this: I seriously questioned your behavior and attitude at a later stage in this thread as you only started to look seriously in this topic after I proved where the origin of this error was. To be clear: I made your job but obviously you still do not understand my standpoint. So for me it is like talking to a wall...

So please, if you are not able to manage such threads and discussions, you should do something else. Try to improve yourself and stop fingerpointing at others. You do not help yourself, nor do you contribute positively to yours or RMEs reputation.

27

Re: Settings dialog text too large

There you go. Already in your second post you started this thing and began with 'I knew that I was right'. Seems like this is what it is all about here. Topic closed.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME