• From: Aotearoa
  • Registered: 2007-10-23
  • Posts: 252

Topic: Restart from hibernation

Hi there

When my machine is hibernated with babyface connected, it won't successfully restart from hibernation (with babyface still connected).  The restart freezes with the windows hibernation progress bar fully to the right.

My Babyface has latest firmware and driver.  My basic system specs are in my sig. I can supply more detailed on request.

thanks

pot

Madiface XT, Madiface, 3x Micstasy, ADI8QS
Sequoia 17, W10 x64
https://bsound.co.nz/tools-nix

2 Reply by MC

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Re: Restart from hibernation

This effect is limited to some (at this time maybe only your) computer, and not fixable, sorry. As the Babyface is powered up during the wakeup process we have no control of what exactly happens when.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • From: Aotearoa
  • Registered: 2007-10-23
  • Posts: 252

Re: Restart from hibernation

Thanks MC, thats understood.  Thought I might just add that the effect also happens when:
- machine is hibernated with BF attached
- machine is restart with BF now unplugged

I thought I would just mention this as the 3.x drivers for the Fireface made it amazing robust and power state wise with the notebook.  It now laughs in the face of the notebooks power state smile

pot

Madiface XT, Madiface, 3x Micstasy, ADI8QS
Sequoia 17, W10 x64
https://bsound.co.nz/tools-nix

4 Reply by MC

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Re: Restart from hibernation

Potscrubber wrote:

Thought I might just add that the effect also happens when:
- machine is hibernated with BF attached

Isn't that what you described above?

Potscrubber wrote:

machine is restart with BF now unplugged

Well that is something the system, our drivers and the running programs don't like - waking up without the hardware that they expect to be there.

Try to use a power supply for the BF, and either always power it or just power it before you wake up the computer. It might work then.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2011-02-13
  • Posts: 5

Re: Restart from hibernation

I have the same problem (notebook Lenovo x200, XP) with the standby mode: the crucial point is entering standby with the babyface connected. Waking up then doesn't work wether the baby face is connected or not when I switch on the computer: restart freezes with a blackscreen before windows appears.

Driver and firmware are updated.

External power supply isn't an ideal solution: I bought the babyface to reduce the cable salad on my desk! Maybe there are better ideas?

apée

6 Reply by MC

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Re: Restart from hibernation

Are you sure firmware 179 is present? Did you try the external power supply?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2011-02-13
  • Posts: 5

Re: Restart from hibernation

I checked with external power supply, no change, neither for standby nor hibernation. (Is it correct that no green light confirms the presence of external power when the USB is not connected? The power supply I used works fine with the ADI-2, but with the babyface I can't tell...)

Only way to make standby and hibernation work is using the "safely remove hardware" function before shutting down, but then the babyface isn't recognized automatically after restart.

Firmware is 179, driver 0.966, I checked both.

Apee

  • Registered: 2010-09-10
  • Posts: 60

Re: Restart from hibernation

Hello!
Same problem here.
Babyface Firmware 179
Driver 0.966
Windows XP SP3 with latest Updates.
Acer Travelmate 5720

With Babyface connected I cannot wakeup from standby, computer freezes with black screen. I have to hard-reset (4sec)
Without Babyface connected the wakeup from standby works in three seconds.

Regards and thanks for your support.

9 Reply by MC

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Re: Restart from hibernation

namhorp,

hibernation is completely different from 'standby'. Waking up from hibernation is harmless as the BF is switched on quickly, but loading its drivers takes time (reading everything back from hard drive). The same is true when going into hibernation, the BF is not switched off before the computer switches off and everything had been written to disk.

Please make sure you had the error in real hibernation mode and no audio is currently active, even in background (Media Payer stopped is not enough, all audio programs have to be exit). Then I would be really astonished...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2011-02-13
  • Posts: 5

Re: Restart from hibernation

I checked again:

Hibernation
It's exactly as Potscrubber describes in the post above: "The restart freezes with the windows hibernation progress bar fully to the right". All programms were closed, nothing in the background (except total mix and babyface settings of course).

Standby
The same, computer freezes at restart before Windows appears.

Apee

11 Reply by MC

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Re: Restart from hibernation

Thanks for testing again. We will check.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2011-02-13
  • Posts: 5

Re: Restart from hibernation

Did you have a chance to check? I have to decide soon wether to keep the babyface or to give it back to the dealer.

Apee

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,558

Re: Restart from hibernation

I've been able to reproduce the problem on an XP laptop - we are looking at it...
Meanwhile, if you can't live without hibernation or standby, try safely removing the BF before putting the PC to sleep, and disconnect the USB. Reconnect after the computer wakes up. Works on my laptop...


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Registered: 2011-02-13
  • Posts: 5

Re: Restart from hibernation

Thank you Daniel. That leaves hope that you will find a solution for the next driver and firmware updates. The workaround works but isn't a solution: Of course I will forget it everytime...

Apee

  • Registered: 2011-02-27
  • Posts: 6

Re: Restart from hibernation

...same here.
lenovo n200 w/ XP. black screen after switching the laptop back from standby mode.

did you come across a solution? that'd be great since i want to keep this nice interface!

cheers,
pete

16 Reply by Jackk (edited by Jackk 2011-12-20 22:11:27)

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Re: Restart from hibernation

The UFX appears to have this issue as well (I have a UFX, and cannot restore once hibernated).

Has a solution been found to this problem?

Thanks.

Note: I have the latest firmware and driver, as of yesterday (2011-12-19)

  • Jackk
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Re: Restart from hibernation

Jackk wrote:

The UFX appears to have this issue as well (I have a UFX, and cannot restore once hibernated).

Has a solution been found to this problem?

Thanks.

Note: I have the latest firmware and driver, as of yesterday (2011-12-19)

Will someone please respond?  RME tech support perhaps?  I am very interested in solving this problem.  Thanks.

  • Registered: 2008-01-01
  • Posts: 3,025

Re: Restart from hibernation

They already did. fryingpan

RME Support wrote:

I've been able to reproduce the problem on an XP laptop - we are looking at it...
Meanwhile, if you can't live without hibernation or standby, try safely removing the BF before putting the PC to sleep, and disconnect the USB. Reconnect after the computer wakes up. Works on my laptop...


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

  • Registered: 2011-05-04
  • Posts: 249

Re: Restart from hibernation

My gut reaction is "Why use hibernate/sleep functions for audio DAW?"

I turn off every possible power saving functions, from screen saver, hard disk/monitor power, to system hibernate/sleep functions for both desktop and laptop machines. I turn on my machines, work with them, turn off when I'm finished. During breaks, like 30 min for lunch, I just leave them ON, and they don't start screen saver either.

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Re: Restart from hibernation

Timur wrote:

They already did. fryingpan

RME Support wrote:

I've been able to reproduce the problem on an XP laptop - we are looking at it...
Meanwhile, if you can't live without hibernation or standby, try safely removing the BF before putting the PC to sleep, and disconnect the USB. Reconnect after the computer wakes up. Works on my laptop...


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

So in your world, being able to reproduce a problem is equivalent to solving it?  Fascinating.

(Generally speaking "we are looking at it..." is typically followed up with a "we have fixed it, here's a patch," hence my inquiry).

And no, a workaround is not a solution; it is a workaround.  The problem with this workaround is that if you forget to unplug the UFX before you hibernate, you will be unable to restore it, and will be forced to reboot your computer.  This means you've lost your work if it wasn't saved.

The potential for losing your work in this way makes hibernation an unappealing option; the aforementioned loss of work has already happened to me once using this workaround.

Masaaki wrote:

My gut reaction is "Why use hibernate/sleep functions for audio DAW?"

I turn off every possible power saving functions, from screen saver, hard disk/monitor power, to system hibernate/sleep functions for both desktop and laptop machines. I turn on my machines, work with them, turn off when I'm finished. During breaks, like 30 min for lunch, I just leave them ON, and they don't start screen saver either.

Hibernate does not use any power; it is equivalent to saving the state of the machine and powering down.  The next time you turn your computer on, the state is restored.  The advantage of hibernation is speed of startup; restoring the state of a hibernated machine is a very fast operation, whereas opening your DAW and loading up all your plugins, etc. is not.

So again, RME, can you please respond?  Is there any progress regarding this issue?  I'd very much like to be able to hibernate my machine...

Thanks.

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Re: Restart from hibernation

bump

  • From: Aotearoa
  • Registered: 2007-10-23
  • Posts: 252

Re: Restart from hibernation

Jackk, I don't think bumping this at Christmas is going to be of any use to you.  I'm reasonably confident RME will come out with a fix for this issue - that only seems to affect some machines.  We just have to be a little bit patient.  In the meantime removing the Babyface is a workaround that works.  If ever I forget and I'm on a power scheme that puts the laptop to sleep and I can't restart and I haven't saved my work well then it's my bad (IMHO).

Having said all that: on my studio PC with Fireface800 & latest drivers, sleeping the machine even with Sequoia open and not recently saved (I know it's stupid!) is rock solid and a joy to use, wakes up in an instant.  I spend looooong days editing so I need to take regular breaks and I enjoy using the machine sleep at this time.  I guess it's a psychological thing.

Madiface XT, Madiface, 3x Micstasy, ADI8QS
Sequoia 17, W10 x64
https://bsound.co.nz/tools-nix
  • Jackk
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Re: Restart from hibernation

Potscrubber wrote:

Jackk, I don't think bumping this at Christmas is going to be of any use to you.  I'm reasonably confident RME will come out with a fix for this issue - that only seems to affect some machines.  We just have to be a little bit patient.  In the meantime removing the Babyface is a workaround that works.  If ever I forget and I'm on a power scheme that puts the laptop to sleep and I can't restart and I haven't saved my work well then it's my bad (IMHO).

Having said all that: on my studio PC with Fireface800 & latest drivers, sleeping the machine even with Sequoia open and not recently saved (I know it's stupid!) is rock solid and a joy to use, wakes up in an instant.  I spend looooong days editing so I need to take regular breaks and I enjoy using the machine sleep at this time.  I guess it's a psychological thing.

I hear you, Potscrubber.  It is not that I am an impatient man; I did not think it unreasonable to ask for an update, given that in a week or so, it will have been a full year since you brought this issue to RME's attention.

You bring up an interesting question, though: does this problem in fact only occur on some computers?  My computers are too similar to make this determination (the four computers I use here are all laptops, and this problem occurs on all of them).  Do you have any computers that do not exhibit this problem when hibernated?

As far as the workaround goes: the fault definitely lies with me if I forget to unplug the UFX before hibernating (after all, I am the one who does the forgetting).  However, this brings me little comfort; given enough time, you're going to forget.  It happens.  Losing unsaved work is an unfortunate price to pay.

I am otherwise very pleased with the UFX.  I would hope that RME will respond with some kind of update to indicate whether or not this problem is being addressed.

24 Reply by Potscrubber (edited by Potscrubber 2011-12-29 06:44:47)

  • From: Aotearoa
  • Registered: 2007-10-23
  • Posts: 252

Re: Restart from hibernation

Yeah, agree with all of that.  I believe it is not universal on all machines, but I only got that from reading back in this thread.  In the next couple days I will install the BF on my studio desktop and test it there. 

BTW, the same thing happens with a Roland 4 port USB interface I have - on this Thinkpad.  I forgot about it because I don't use the Roland anymore, but I just remembered.

BBTW, I tested the original BF issue with the Thinkpad bios set to keep the USB ports powered on in sleep / hibernation.  Same result/problem.  So given that and the report above re using power adaptor, I would venture that the source of the problem is about reloading/reactivating the driver, not denial of power.  But what do I know about programming drivers?!?

Madiface XT, Madiface, 3x Micstasy, ADI8QS
Sequoia 17, W10 x64
https://bsound.co.nz/tools-nix
  • Registered: 2007-06-18
  • Posts: 96

Re: Restart from hibernation

I second Masaaki, it's not specific to RME stuff, don't use any energy saving system with DAWs. There is the same issue with Digidesign hardwares, and probably other brands.

JM

  • From: HomeStudio
  • Registered: 2011-12-02
  • Posts: 13

Re: Restart from hibernation

on MacBook Pro...

---
MacBook Pro i7 - 8 GB Ram | RME Babyface | Adam A7x | Cubase 6.x | Snow Leopard 10.6.8

ChordSolo's Website

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Re: Restart from hibernation

Potscrubber wrote:

Yeah, agree with all of that.  I believe it is not universal on all machines, but I only got that from reading back in this thread.  In the next couple days I will install the BF on my studio desktop and test it there. 

BTW, the same thing happens with a Roland 4 port USB interface I have - on this Thinkpad.  I forgot about it because I don't use the Roland anymore, but I just remembered.

BBTW, I tested the original BF issue with the Thinkpad bios set to keep the USB ports powered on in sleep / hibernation.  Same result/problem.  So given that and the report above re using power adaptor, I would venture that the source of the problem is about reloading/reactivating the driver, not denial of power.  But what do I know about programming drivers?!?

I am very interested in finding out if this problem occurs on your desktop.  If it does, then it seems that the problem is more widespread than originally thought.

  • From: Aotearoa
  • Registered: 2007-10-23
  • Posts: 252

Re: Restart from hibernation

Jackk wrote:

I am very interested in finding out if this problem occurs on your desktop.  If it does, then it seems that the problem is more widespread than originally thought.

Well, works just fine on the desktop. It's an i7 2600 on an Intel DP67BG board.  Just installed BF with latest version 1.013 driver.  Sleep and hibernation with BF hooked up work well.  Might leave it on there for a bit to see if I prefer the DAC over the Fireface. HeadScratch

So thats a fairly wide difference in systems: custom desktop vs propriety notebook build, but at least demonstrates that not all systems are affected.

Madiface XT, Madiface, 3x Micstasy, ADI8QS
Sequoia 17, W10 x64
https://bsound.co.nz/tools-nix
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Re: Restart from hibernation

I received a private email from Daniel at RME.  I thought it appropriate to post it so that others may benefit from its contents:

-------------

Hello,

we are aware of the issue, but the there is no "status" as such. It
seems difficult to reproduce, since not every system is affected.
As an additional safety measure, avoid letting the PC hibernate
automatically, and do not leave work unsaved before doing so manually.


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

-------------

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Re: Restart from hibernation

Daniel wrote:

Hello,

we are aware of the issue, but the there is no "status" as such. It
seems difficult to reproduce, since not every system is affected.
As an additional safety measure, avoid letting the PC hibernate
automatically, and do not leave work unsaved before doing so manually.


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Hi Daniel,

Thanks for responding.  I appreciate that you have taken the time to say something regarding this bug.

The aim of my inquiry is to determine whether or not RME intends to fix this bug, as much time has passed (1 year) since it was initially brought to your attention.  As of yet, I still do not have this information.

By "status" I am referring to the state of this bug's resolution (see definition 2 at http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/status).  For example, "non-reproducible" and "in progress" are both states that are commonly referred to as bug's "status" when tracking a bug's resolution.

You mention that the problem "seems difficult to reproduce."  However, you have also stated in the thread that RME was in fact able to reproduce the bug, so I wonder how relevant this is; are you not able to reproduce the bug at will using this machine?  If so, does RME have any intentions of fixing this bug, as reproduced?

Please let me know, as this may affect whether or not I keep the UFX, or return it.  Being able to reliably hibernate my machine is of enough concern to me to affect which high-end audio interface I purchase; the UFX is a great product, but it is by no means inexpensive.

Thanks again,

-Jack

31 Reply by MC

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Re: Restart from hibernation

We (IMHO all companies) are not able to guarantee standby or hibernation compatibility for any computer system out there. There are too many reasons why a specific system can fail to do that with a UC, a FF 400, a Multiface etc etc and/or a UFX. So if you need such a guarantee you better return the UFX.

The problems mentioned in this thread had been adressed in several driver improvements around march, that's why then nearly no complaints came up aynmore. But as said, there will always be a machine where it doesn't work. THAT we can't fix.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,558

Re: Restart from hibernation

Since my first mail was already posted here without asking me :roll I might as well post my reply to the above return reply, which I also received as email...

**************
The fact that this phenomenon does occur on some of our machines (i.e. Babyface on my Dell Netbook) means we've seen it happening. Yet, it clearly does not affect every machine, and thus, it can't even be clearly determined whether it is caused by the RME driver or hardware or by the affected computers. Also, due to the nature of the symptom's occurence, it is very difficult to determine what exactly is happening (how to diagnose a hibernating system or one that is in the process of waking up?).
Therefore, observation on individual systems does not amount to reliable "reproduction", and without that, no simple "fix" can be applied - esp. in the absence of clear evidence of the actual cause. The fact that the UFX is affected by the symptom does not prove it is the cause.

So I'm afraid I can not promise anything right now - which is neither related to "intentions" nor to the price of the UFX...
**********

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Jackk
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Re: Restart from hibernation

MC wrote:

We (IMHO all companies) are not able to guarantee standby or hibernation compatibility for any computer system out there. There are too many reasons why a specific system can fail to do that with a UC, a FF 400, a Multiface etc etc and/or a UFX. So if you need such a guarantee you better return the UFX.

The problems mentioned in this thread had been adressed in several driver improvements around march, that's why then nearly no complaints came up aynmore. But as said, there will always be a machine where it doesn't work. THAT we can't fix.

RME Support wrote:

Since my first mail was already posted here without asking me :roll I might as well post my reply to the above return reply, which I also received as email...

**************
The fact that this phenomenon does occur on some of our machines (i.e. Babyface on my Dell Netbook) means we've seen it happening. Yet, it clearly does not affect every machine, and thus, it can't even be clearly determined whether it is caused by the RME driver or hardware or by the affected computers. Also, due to the nature of the symptom's occurence, it is very difficult to determine what exactly is happening (how to diagnose a hibernating system or one that is in the process of waking up?).
Therefore, observation on individual systems does not amount to reliable "reproduction", and without that, no simple "fix" can be applied - esp. in the absence of clear evidence of the actual cause. The fact that the UFX is affected by the symptom does not prove it is the cause.

So I'm afraid I can not promise anything right now - which is neither related to "intentions" nor to the price of the UFX...
**********

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Thanks for the information (this is what I was seeking two weeks ago --- not sure why it was this difficult to obtain, or why the email sent to me by tech support was confidential for that matter).

Your explanation for causality being unproved sounds reasonable.  However, this argument can always be made any time one party integrates their software with another company's software; until one side of the integration tracks down the bug, no one knows whose "fault" it is.  And when neither side is willing to invest the time and energy to track down the bug, then the problem goes unresolved.

Unfortunately, it is very unlikely that a laptop manufacturer is going to procure a specialized piece of audio hardware to investigate why their computer does not hibernate properly when it is connected to it (their argument: it hibernates with everyone else's hardware).  So unless your team decides to track this bug down, it is very likely to just continue to go unresolved.