Topic: HDSPe Express Card + Multiface I = erratic freezes

My old multiface is perfectly stable connected to a Dell Inspiron 6000 laptop (Win XP SP2) via the flat PCMCIA card. 8 microphones channels from the Octamic II via one optical ADAT line to the Multiface gives me nice VIP projects in Samplitude, for now several years.

6 monthes ago I bought a Dell Vostro, i5 core, Win 7 pro 32 bits  and the RME Express card. I made the drivers update to 3.085 and the firmware update to rev 18, without difficulties.

I can't use this new machine : Samplitude can run normally for hours, then suddenly freeze.

I simplified the situation : instead of using Samplitude I tried to use DigiCheck global recording option. Very nice and simple, and that runs fine. Up to the moment where it freezes, after hours, or minutes, or anytime. And I discovered that in this situation I must disconnect the Express card from the laptop (disconnecting just the firewire cable is not enough) and the freeze melt, I can close Digicheck and the laptop continues to operate normally.

I'm wondering if the old multiface is really compatible with the RME Express card ? I did'nt find clear answer in this forum, nor in RME web site.

Any ideas ? Can you help me to solve this problem ?

Many thanks

Carenne

2

Re: HDSPe Express Card + Multiface I = erratic freezes

Of course it is. I see three issues to examine:

- The laptops ExpressCard slot is not working as it should

- The ExpressCard overheats

- The ExpressCard is not working as it should

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

3 (edited by Carenne 2011-01-21 14:47:21)

Re: HDSPe Express Card + Multiface I = erratic freezes

Hi Mathias, thanks for prompt reply.

"The laptops ExpressCard slot is not working as it should" : For a mechanical reason (I have been surprised to see that the express card is not physically latched in the slot, so that a slight accidental traction on the firewire cable can disconnect the card) a Dell technician came to my home two weeks ago and uselessly exchanged the slot for an identical new one. Result : not more latching than before, nor change respectively to freeze problem.

"The ExpressCard overheats" : ?? In my studio the ambiant temperature is about 21 C°. After 50 mn with 4 tracks recording on Digicheck, the card temperature is not more than 45 C° (estimation, contact to finger is pleasant warm). No freeze during this morning. Freeze at 14h32, DigiCheck just open, not recording. The Express card temperature less than 45 C°.


"The ExpressCard is not working as it should" : I suppose I have to contact the reseller (Thomann De), with copy of our messages ? Or RME is interested to examine the card directly ?

4

Re: HDSPe Express Card + Multiface I = erratic freezes

If you would have bought in France then our french distributor might have been willing to exchange the card just to make sure it is not the culprit. As you bought 'outside' you will have to send the card to Thomann to check it.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: HDSPe Express Card + Multiface I = erratic freezes

Hi,

My opinion is that it isn’t a problem with the express card. I have the similarly troubles with an
other kind of configuration.
It’s more a problem with the laptop and windows. It’s happen that the card get by the system a faulty IRQ. I mean that on the same interrupt hanging some system components they are using the same bus. When you work with the RME ASIO driver you produce a have data transfer on this bus.
When the system component also request data from the same bus, and don’t get them free by signaling over the interrupt and it’s an important system request then the OS freeze and waiting for get the bus free. When you pull the card, then the system unregister the card in the system and give the bus free. 
I have the same troubles and no solution for that problem at the moment.

My configuration is HDSP9652 in an external PCI- box and with an Expresscard PCI Brigde.
Sometime I can record 16 channels for hour, sometime it freezes after 10 minutes.
Playback of 16 channels is not really possible. It freezes after 5 minutes.

Maybe RME have a solution for that problem

6

Re: HDSPe Express Card + Multiface I = erratic freezes

Please tell us which external PCI box you use (make/model) and which notebook. Thanks.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: HDSPe Express Card + Multiface I = erratic freezes

Hi,
Laptop: Acer Aspire 8942G Intel Core i7 720QM, 8GB Ram DDR3, 1.2 TB HD
External Box: EXSYS EX-1025
RME: HDSP 9652 Rev. 1.6, last Firmware, last driver

Audio Software: Nuendo 4
with RME Asio problems and freeze and only recording work with less freeze
with build in Asio (full duplex) with bad latency all work, this asio driver use the wdm driver

lg
Matthias

Re: HDSPe Express Card + Multiface I = erratic freezes

I forgot to say that i have to uninstall and deactivate realtek sound card. Without this i get the freeze after 3 minutes

Re: HDSPe Express Card + Multiface I = erratic freezes

Gildas at Thomann's hotline told me that RME ExpressCard is very seldom in failure (glad !) and sent me to that thread :

http://www..rme-audio.de/forum/viewtopic.php?id=8365

So the problem seems general, and even with many different occurences, seems to be related to discrepancies beetween RME, laptops constructors and even Microsoft understandings of ExpressCards specifications. Compatible ? Sometimes, with some laptops ... Once again, it's probably more often true with the Mac Book than with one out of many PC.

I tried to boot with ExpressCard diconnected then connect. DigiChk freezed after 3 hrs and 30 mn.
Now new trial with total "maximum performances" in Win parameters ; I wait ...

So much time wasted. I'm tired and discouraged.

Carenne

10

Re: HDSPe Express Card + Multiface I = erratic freezes

You will find threads here that claim the EXSYS that you use works good, And you will find (found?) that Realtek indeed can cause a problem like that. If Realtek can then others can too. Means you can not be sure that it is just another driver on your computer that causes this effect. For a test you could add a Windows installation without any notebook specific drivers, only the stuff included in Windows, then do the same long-term test...

The thread Thomann pointed to does not describe your problem. In that thread the crash happpens immediately, not hours later.

And MacBooks have their own problems with ExpressCard, search and read some of Timurs tests.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: HDSPe Express Card + Multiface I = erratic freezes

Carenne wrote:

Now new trial with total "maximum performances" in Win parameters ; I wait ...

Trying Maximum Performance is a good idea. I don't know what XP does other than changing CPU clock-rates, but in Vista/W7 all profiles other than "High Performance" try to use power-saving on the PCI Express bus and it even leads to dropouts for Firefaces (because Firewire is connected to PCI Express).

Another thing you should try is disconnect *all* external device from the laptop that come with their own PSU or are in any way connected to grounding. That includes powered USB hubs, external displays, external harddrives etc.

You also write that the "freezes" end as soon as you unplug the HDSPe. So the computer itself is not freezing, but Windows stalls? Does Samplitude also recover once you remove the card? Can you still move the mouse?

Please run Task-Manager *before* you do your work then keep it running while you do your work until the stall happens. When the stall happens press CTRL-ALT-DEL, if Windows reacts to that chose to open Task-Manager (which is still active anyway) and try have a look at CPU load (especially for processes). If this doesn't work try running Task-Manager with "Realtime" priority, but that may cause dropouts (change its refresh rate to slow).

Last but not least, when you run Samplitude make sure that you do not use the "High Priority" setting (don't know exactly what it was called), because that makes it run at realtime priority (31, the highest possible). This in turn means that whenever Samplitude stalls/overloads the whole system does.

Re: HDSPe Express Card + Multiface I = erratic freezes

The only device actually connected during these trials is an external  2.5 hardrive powered by the USB connexion.
Timur I will conduct trials to answer precisely to your questions. During last two days I simplified trials using only DigiCheck and not Samplitude. With DigiCheck when freeze arise, the mouse becomes very very slow, answering only by small steps, and this lazy behaviour leads after some seconds to a complete mouse and software sleep. Disconnecting the card gives back mouse access, I can close Digicheck and Win7 is again operationnal.

But, positive points in Matthias ballpark, days after days it appears that when I switch on the laptop in the morning everything runs normally for about 3 hours ; freezes arise after that period, and more and more frequently. Expresscard temperature stays low, I estimate it to less than 40 °C (104 °F). So what ? As I said before, the ExpressCard slot has been changed by Dell 3 weeks ago.

To day I'm going to record on site J.B. Lully "Idylle sur la paix", with my old laptop (Dell inspiron 6000, WinXP, pcmcia flat card, running faithfully) ...

13 (edited by Timur 2011-01-23 11:54:46)

Re: HDSPe Express Card + Multiface I = erratic freezes

I don't have experience with the combination of HDSPe + MF1, only with the MF2. To the HDSPe's honor I must say that it is the only ExpressCard that I am not able to cause serious errors or even completely lose connection on both the 2008/09 (Intel G35) and 2010 (Intel GM55) Macbook Pros. The only time I managed to cause a Kernel Panic (like a BSOD) was when I pulled it out during a shutdown of OS X.

Any eSATA card with any chipset I tried plus several Firewire cards were not half as stable in the same test-setup. These tests included discharging the ground voltage level by connecting external devices that come with their own PSU and on. And with the 2009 Macbook Pro (G35) there were very serious issues with all cards but the HDSPe that even happened if you didn't connect anything else and didn't touch the computer. What PCI Express chipset is your new computer using?

That doesn't mean that the HDSPe cannot be the source of your issues, just that in comparison to other ExpressCards I tried it was on top of the heap. To me it seems that ExpressCard integration is handled rather bad regardless of which laptop you try. It surely no coincidence that the port vanishes more and more from laptops (which is a shame). I'm typing this on the Acer of my wife, which comes with 5 USB ports, multi-cardreader, HDMI, VGA, even still an analog modem, but no ExpressCard.

Re: HDSPe Express Card + Multiface I = erratic freezes

You know what ? I'm happy.

The problem has been solved by a gourou at Dell's hot line. He took my laptop control from his office, grope everywhere then update several drivers ; among was HM57 Express chipset.
I can now records 8 tracks at 88.2 kHz/24 bits for 2 or 3 hours without any failure.
So this is the second Dell laptop I own compatible with Multiface I, one with XP and Pcmcia, the other with Win7 and ExpressCard.

Thank you to all here who tried to help me

Carenne aka Droopy

Re: HDSPe Express Card + Multiface I = erratic freezes

Alas !

5 monthes after my last post I must give a completely different conclusion.

One or two days after that last "happy naïve" post the freezings reappeared.

So I took my RME system (Expresscard, Multiface, Octamic II) and connected it to one friend's laptop (Sony Vaio,VPCF11M1E, Core i5-520  2.4 GHz, 4 Go memory, Win 7 64bits , HDD 5400 r/m : very similar to my Vostro). Never the least  interruption, along 13 different recording sessions for a total of 25 hours, up to 14 simultaneous track recording at 88.2 kHz sr.

During these 5 last monthes, Dell's support tried all what they could think of to cure my difficulties.

First they suspected the ExpressCard, so the card went back to my reseller then to RME ; result of tests : the card is in perfect condition.
Then Dell decided to change the MoBo of my laptop. No improvement
Then they discovered that for some series of memory modules a Microsoft patch has to be applied to Win7 to assure normal operation of the expresscard  function. I applied the patch ; no change.
So Dell's technicians decided to change the memory modules. Once, twice. No improvement.

In spite of their good will, all that was long and discouraging.

Then the one year waranty period ended up and, from that precise day, they no longer answer neither to emails nor to postal letters. Unfair.

Todays' conclusions :

1 - I bought a Fireface UC which for now 2 weeks appears pefectly compatible with my Dell Vostro.
2 - Always test your complete systems before buying. This leads to exclude brands that you can only buy via internet, witout any local reseller.
3 - Could RME create something similar to the "tested systems" existing for the Fireface UC ?
4 - I have an Expresscard to sell. Used (so few) but guaranteed in perfect condition ...

Carenne