1 Topic by mrhuge (edited by mrhuge 2014-12-07 00:26:46)

  • Registered: 2008-07-26
  • Posts: 30

Topic: All ways to connect Fireface 400 firewire to modern computer

Hi RME users and developers!

How fast 7 years flew by since I've bought my Fireface 400! smile Never had time to use it for full capabilites, but maybe it has come.

My old Macbook Pro from that time isn't actual anymore.
The questions are:

  • How to connect old firewire 1394 Fireface 400 to a modern computer or laptop?

  • What is the best budget computer buy for Fireface 400? Can you recommend any laptop?


I've found these basic ways on forum:

  1. PC system unit
    PCIe board with firewire port -> firewire

  2. PC laptop such as HP Elitebook (2 ways)
    expresscard port -> expresscard with firewire port -> firewire
    1394 port -> firewire

  3. New macbook
    thunderbolt -> expresscard adapter -> expresscard with firewire port -> firewire

Option 1 is not mobile, option 2 Elitebooks are outdated, option 3 is too expensive.


  • Can you suggest a way to connect FF400 to a new laptop (maybe 4 core CPU) with a reasonable price?

  • Will such way work or it cannot transfer audio?
    usb -> usb to expresscard adapter -> expresscard with firewire port -> firewire
    with external FF400 power supply

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/16170/38405437.35/0_b1286_fb32c3ed_orig.jpg
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/16135/38405437.35/0_b1287_1ac406bd_orig.jpg

  • From: Houston, TX
  • Registered: 2007-05-11
  • Posts: 1,191

Re: All ways to connect Fireface 400 firewire to modern computer

I believe numerous RME Firewire users are running modern Mac's with a simple (and not too expensive) Thunderbolt-to-FW400 adapter.  No need to have the extra Express Card step in there.

I'm not a Mac DAW guy, nor a USB/Firewire DAW interface guy, nor a laptop DAW guy - so I can't speak from first hand experience. (DIY Desktop PC's and PCIe interfaces are all I'll run).

cool

MADIface-XT+ARC / 3x HDSP MADI / ADI648
2x SSL Alphalink MADI AX
2x Multiface / 2x Digiface /2x ADI8

3 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2014-12-07 13:41:59)

  • ramses
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Re: All ways to connect Fireface 400 firewire to modern computer

You might disagree to my vision of things .. please note that the intention is not to initiate a "flame war" between Windows and Apple advocates. I am really trying to give this guy, who asked for advice, a vision which could be an alternative valid way to go forward...

Suggestion. Sell all your old stuff. You get good prices for used Apple and RME devices.
Get an audio optimized Laptop with Windows 7 and get either an RME UC or even UCX.

I would take the UCX as it might become handy
- to have USB and Firewire
- to have FX (effects) on board
- to have the latest and fastest converters

I am present in many different boards and I am seeing that the Apple world is not as perfect as many people think/pray.
In the past there might have been advantages for doing audio and video processing, but I think this time is over.

Of course the PC/Windows sector is also everything other than perfect, if people doesnt have the right knowledge to select proper HW. But if you have the knowledge or if you buy from a company that has experience in this field, then you get performant / ergonomic / silent HW to a reasonable price. Did this on my own and saved nearly €2000.

Another advantage is, that the PC/Windows market is a big market. Whenever something doesnt work in terms of SW or drivers, then there are much more people affected compared to the Apple "niche". So all new development and fixes are much more likely to happen on Windows based platforms earlier and with higher prior compared to Apple (not talking about products which are exclusively available for Apple). On top Apples reaction time is also not the fastest if people in the recording area are having severe problems (see below Fusion Drive issues, this was a royal pain for users and HW vendors like RME, Focusrite, ...).

Apple sells average performance HW to a very high price and you have no flexibility in terms of upgrades as in their tiny slim cases they need to bond all components directly to the mainboard to save room. So you are bound to what you got over the complete lifetime of your device. On a PC you have most flexibility but even on a Laptop you can replace Harddisks against SSD, buy bigger / better SSD (and can get docking station, anti glare screen, etc).

And regarding quality and audio processing: remember the Fusion Drive issues in 2013.
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5484036
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-c … imacs.html

Or last recently the SSD chips of much different performance behaviour which cant be replaced as they are directly connected to the board.
http://www.macrumors.com/2014/05/06/ssd … -air-same/

So all these argument that you pay for a well balanced (and tested ?) hardware are for my taste not reality.

Then I read sometimes here and there that some OS versions caused much lag in the GUI and thus also audio processing. Then you have the only the choice of downgrading OS or to wait (long) for the next release as Apple doesnt deliver a reasonable amount of upgrades in between (and hope its getting better then).

For me personally its an absolutely no-go, not being able to order from them Screens with anti-glare. And I think something like a docking station is a must for professional use.

So .. it could be a good alternative for you to get an audio optimized Laptop, saving the money for Apple and maybe even upgrading to an "up to date" RME interface with the latest features.

A few examples of companies offering Audio optimized Laptops (search google for "Digital Audio Laptops")
http://www.adkproaudio.com/laptop3.asp
http://www.da-x.de/de/audio-computer/au … books.html
http://pcaudiolabs.com/

Final famous words .. if you are used to use Apple you might have difficulties to switch, maybe this also forces you to buy new software for backup, wordprocessing, etc ... so take your time and make a good calculation.
Could be an advantage to stay on a platform which you know ....

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2008-07-26
  • Posts: 30

Re: All ways to connect Fireface 400 firewire to modern computer

Randyman, thanks for suggestion! I'll add you direct method TB->FF to first post, but I see only TB->FF800 adapter so FF400-FF800 cable will be needed to buy for Fireface 400.

TB->FF is a good connection option but I think these Macs are overpriced and "overneeded" now, as also Ramses confirms higher. So, to my mind, it is better to go with PC - less expenisve, more economically.

I don't see the need to pay double price for Macbook in comparison to techincally identical PC laptop.
So, the PC question remains.
Is there a way to connect Fireface 400 to a modern PC laptop such as this http://www.asus.com/Notebooks_Ultrabook … fications/ which comes with USB, HDMI, mini Display ports?

  • Registered: 2008-07-26
  • Posts: 30

Re: All ways to connect Fireface 400 firewire to modern computer

Ramses, thank you for such thoughtful answer!

Totally agree with your thoughts, that importance of Apple market is artificially overestimated. For 7 years I used Macbook Pro as a workhorse on Windows with Bootcamp (thank you, old good mac smile). Never used Mac OS. And bought it just for firewire Fireface to know that firewire technology will be dead soon.

Suggestion. Sell all your old stuff. You get good prices for used Apple and RME devices. Get an audio optimized Laptop with Windows 7 and get either an RME UC or even UCX.

As for this - I agree that it's a good idea. But the problem is lifetime, which is totally limited. I don't want to end up constantly buying and selling audio stuff as audiogeeks, searching for perfection smile This process can be endless.
I prefer to use what I already have until something is broken.
Audio optimized laptop is also a great idea, buy I look for the practical meaning of it. You can spend much time and money for this special laptop, but is it worthy? Will it make you successful in world of sound and music? I think no.  I think success comes from using what you have in superhuman capabilities (compared to ordinary human) smile

In conclusion, I agree with you that we need a PC, preferably laptop, but we also need a good old Fireface 400 smile Let's try to make them work together smile

6 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2014-12-07 22:20:01)

  • ramses
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Re: All ways to connect Fireface 400 firewire to modern computer

> Audio optimized laptop is also a great idea, buy I look for the practical meaning of it.
> You can spend much time and money for this special laptop, but is it worthy?

With laptops its the same like with Desktops. Some are simply crap for audio and you will never get them tweaked
right if the design is simply crap. I had this issue with a MSI P55 GD65. The P55A GD65 which I bought later to get
USB3 and SATA6 was of all sudden much better in terms of kernel latencies, which resulted finally in a much better
suited system for audio processing. But its not only the low latency its also the overall design not to have spikes
of kernel latency which results in audio loss.

With laptops its even a little bit more hairy, as Laptops are designed for low energy consumption.
And the BIOSes do not allow the usual tuning settings like to get rid of C-States etc ....
If you are lucky you get a laptop which goes down up to 50µs kernel latency and is stable there.

Even more trickier, if you buy a Laptop only with an internal CPU Graphics. Then audio loss is even much more likely.
On my Lenovo T540p I require for a simple audio playback an ASIO buffersize of 256 samples with the RME UFX.
With 48 samples I only need to turn the mousewheel in Firefox and I am getting audio drops. With 256 its stable.
Luckily I have an additional nVidia 730 built-in. If I configure to let Firefox being run over the nVidia, then everything
is fine again .. then I can use the UFX with only 48 Samples of ASIO buffer and there are no issues anymore.

What do I want to say with it ? Things like this are simply complex. It requires much time and engagement and testing
to get a certain "sense" of having an idea whats better, whats worse, but even then you depend simply on the design
of the components and you cant influence everything by tweaking BIOS or Windows ...

So .. at the end of the day it might give you a value not having to spend plenty of time to end up frustrated but instead of this get eventually somehing from a good company, which did all this crap for you ...

We are not living in a "perfect" hardware world, this is simply a fact. Even Apple doesnt get it absolutely right.

I can only suggest to you, to get something tested by a company who specialized on the recording sector or you might get a hard time ... things are not that easy and can burn a severe amount of time and money.

And why selling the 400 .. ?! Because Firewire is a bitch. I am sick of it.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

7 Reply by Randyman... (edited by Randyman... 2014-12-08 07:00:08)

  • From: Houston, TX
  • Registered: 2007-05-11
  • Posts: 1,191

Re: All ways to connect Fireface 400 firewire to modern computer

ramses wrote:

And why selling the 400 .. ?! Because Firewire is a bitch. I am sick of it.

I'm SO GLAD I never went down that FireWire road!  PCI since my first DIY P4 DAW back in 2004 with a second-hand PCI Multiface and never a regret...

And you probably noticed, but I'm not a Mac guy in any way, shape, or form - and totally agree that a PC is the way to go smile  Was just passing along what some of the Mac peeps have been reporting around here with regard to TB>FW...

Thunderbolt: Whatever!!! big_smile

And a very late edit: I should mention: ramses rocks! big_smile

cool

MADIface-XT+ARC / 3x HDSP MADI / ADI648
2x SSL Alphalink MADI AX
2x Multiface / 2x Digiface /2x ADI8

8 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2014-12-08 08:03:09)

  • ramses
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Re: All ways to connect Fireface 400 firewire to modern computer

Thanks for the flowers, but what is now the conclusion for you of this all ?

I could additionally recommend you perhaps this company, which seems to build some nice PCs based on some quality components and using/offering a wide range of Xeon CPUs.

http://www.deltacomputer.com/hochleistu … -1200.html

But even then .. firewire is still a bitch .. I would sell the 400 and get UC or UCX.

Here some more details why I started to hate it ...

Even after
- buying now a much better Firewire card
- building a PC based on workstation components (Supermicro board, Xeon CPU, etc)

I still observe, that with the UFX and latest drivers its with firewire still not possible to use any possible combination of Sample Frequency and ASIO Buffersize.

With USB it simply works and if I may trust Cubase 7 / 8 then the latency is even a little bit smaller when using USB.

Some time ago, before getting the UFX, when I had a Focusrite LS 56 you could have described me to be a Firewire advocat, as this protocol appeared to me from design perspective the better protocol.
Devices with own intelligence. Which lead to a smaller less compless and cpu intensive driver on the host side.
But even there with the Focusrite I had to struggle to get a proper device in terms of chipset, but it worked.

When switching to RME with rock solid low latency drivers I experienced this issue, that not all sample frequency/ASIO buffer size combinations worked. Then the "dance" began ... find out why ... Not that the unit didnt work, but as a techie its kind of unacceptable to this undeterministic behaviour.

Then I found out, that switching to different PCIe Slots on the old mainboard (P55 GD65) lead to slightly different results. Finally I was really sick of this and as I anyway intended to upgrade my system I did a system upgrade by using workstation components, as in an other forum there was an advocat of using server components and he recommended a certain company, which unfortunately simply was to expensive for me.

Now with the new system I hoped/expected to get entirely rid of this firewire problematic.

The new system works phantastic, but one thing remained, its still not possible with firewire to use all possible combinations of Sample Frequency and ASIO buffersize.

I am really tired of this topic and it simply nerves as from my perspective something like this shall not happen.

Bought many different Firewire quality cables, Firewire interfaces with VIA and TI chip etc etc ...

So it can still  be everything .. RME Driver, Firewire Chipset, Design of mainboard, or even the phase of the moon.

I became pragmatic and am using USB now. At least for me this "undeterministic behaviour" is somehow unacceptable .. Good-bye nicely designed protocol, but in practice behaves like a bitch...

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,693

Re: All ways to connect Fireface 400 firewire to modern computer

There are good FW implementations and not-so-good ones... If FW were generally as bad as you describe it here, the FF400 and 800 could not have been what they are, both in terms of reliability and performance.

@ mrhuge, option 2 can not work, as these "adapters" are really only USB devices, not real Expresscards...

Thunderbolt is really the only option in the absence of a direct FW connection.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Registered: 2008-07-26
  • Posts: 30

Re: All ways to connect Fireface 400 firewire to modern computer

Even more trickier, if you buy a Laptop only with an internal CPU Graphics. Then audio loss is even much more likely.

Good remark! Ramses, looks like you continue to have issues even with USB UFX ))

The new system works phantastic, but one thing remained, its still not possible with firewire to use all possible combinations of Sample Frequency and ASIO buffersize.

You've come a long thorny way with firewire battles and I admire it, but do you really need all possible frequency/buffers combinations in your everyday sound work? As I've said, the main thing is just to get the result you need - record and master a great mix.

Good you've mentioned audio optimized PC desktops, because I came to a conclusion that it's maybe the best budget option to go with firewire.

11 Reply by mrhuge (edited by mrhuge 2014-12-09 00:38:05)

  • Registered: 2008-07-26
  • Posts: 30

Re: All ways to connect Fireface 400 firewire to modern computer

@ mrhuge, option 2 can not work, as these "adapters" are really only USB devices, not real Expresscards...
Thunderbolt is really the only option in the absence of a direct FW connection.

Daniel, thank you for joining us and answering the key questions! I see that USB/expresscard adapters won't work.

There are good FW implementations and not-so-good ones... If FW were generally as bad as you describe it here, the FF400 and 800 could not have been what they are, both in terms of reliability and performance.

Agreed that you've created one of the best audio interfaces ever, and FW is just a method to make it work.

Now I see these basic modern ways to get things done with Fireface 400:

  1. For Mac users
    Thunderbolt -> Thunderbold to Firewire 800 adapter -> Firewire 800 to 400 cable -> Fireface firewire
    http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/17840/38405437.35/0_b12e8_c69c894c_M.jpg
    http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/16118/38405437.35/0_b12e9_9f187764_M.jpg

  2. For PC users
    PC laptops with expresscards or 1394 ports are not actual, so we don't look there.
    PC desktops is the best way, as Randyman mentioned. Assemble inexpensive DIY desktop with PCIe 1394 board on Texas Instruments chipset and be happy! Music making/mixing isn't such demanding for computer perfomance, and good TI interface will allow firewire to work without big latencies.

If you'll get succesfull with your composing/mixing, earn money and will need live perfomance - just switch from budget option 2 PC desktop to elite option 1 and buy Macbook Pro with Thunderbolt. But at this time these expenses will be justified.

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/15584/38405437.35/0_b12e7_e6142b5e_XL.jpg

12 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2014-12-09 00:13:36)

  • ramses
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Re: All ways to connect Fireface 400 firewire to modern computer

True, I do not need all combinations of samplerates and ASIO buffersizes.

But with the UFX its possible with USB! Only via Fw a few combinations do not work.

Yes I could live with it, but this is from an end user perspective and technical standpoint not really satisfactory.

I hoped to get it fixed somehow, believing, that the RME driver are superior and that there is something wrong with my hardware. Finally my last PC upgrade costed > € 2300 with quality server board and Xeon CPU (as I wanted to upgrade anyway), so I tried something completely different.

But same sample frequency / ASIO combinations do not work even there like with my cheapo consumer board.
Til the end I thought its maybe the mainboard .. but appearently no ...

So after all this testing there are only 2-3 choices.
- Either TI hardware sucks completely, not matter what you buy
- or the Windows driver does something wrong
- or RME has a problem with its driver

But slowly I got sick of this trying to nail this down and am using very pragmatic USB.

I wished I would have kept my old Firewire Recording interface to cross check, whether it works there or not.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

13 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2014-12-09 19:25:20)

  • ramses
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Re: All ways to connect Fireface 400 firewire to modern computer

RME Support wrote:

There are good FW implementations and not-so-good ones...

If FW were generally as bad as you describe it here, the FF400 and 800 could not have been what they are, both in terms of reliability and performance.

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Hi Daniel,

I used many different brands of cards and the initial very big problems were caused by a bogus TI Chip,
which has been confirmed by Matthias (Carstens).

Now I am using a chip which has been recommended by Matthias, but on the old and on the new system
(with new system I mean the new one based on Supermicro Server board, Xeon CPU, etc etc)
still its not working 100% as could be expected.

Maybe other users only use other combinations of samplefrequency and ASIO buffer size, which do not trigger the issue.

After the desaster with 3 different Fw 400 cards all having this unfortune TI chip (XIO2200A) on it
I am still having issues with the new Fw 800 card (2x800, 1x400) with XIO2213B chip on it
connected to the RME UFX, when I use the following combinations

Cubase 7.5.30 project @32 kHz, UFX Fw Driver set to 48 samples
Cubase 7.5.30 project @48 kHz, UFX Fw Driver set to 48 samples

I validated this now again with Cubase 8 on the new system with supermicro board, new and from MC recommended
TI chip, and I get the same results. Fw error counter increasing at about 10 errors per second.
Reducing i.e. the amount of Fw channels do not make any difference.

Windows 7 SP1 Ultimate, Cubase 7 + 8, RME Fw Driver version 3.10, HW Revision 3.42 from 7.11.14.
System description here:
http://www.sysprofile.de/id185813
http://www.passmark.com/baselines/V8/di … 0705512678

Would be interesting if you could kindly check these 2 combinations of Samplefrequency and ASIO buffersize with your equipment. I have a certain feeling that this is a generic problem and would be glad if it could be fixed, although I switched now entirely to USB for that reason.

And it makes somehow no sense that everything up to 192 KHz works with a "nobrainer project" (in terms of load) with only 1 Micro connected to it set to monitor mode and only these 2 frequencies at real low sample frequencies do not work (crackles, fw driver error counter incrementing rapidly at about 8-10 errors per second).

Yes I rarely use these combinations, but shouldn't it work regardless whether you need it or not "at the moment" ?!

Would be interested to know whether other UFX user using Fw connection also have issues with these 2 combinations above. Fw, 48 Samples ASIO Buffer @32 and 48 kHz.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2015-05-31
  • Posts: 1

Re: All ways to connect Fireface 400 firewire to modern computer

Hi,

I am planning to by a Zbook 15 G2 (J8Z45ET#ABD) laptop to use it with my good old FF400. I was wondering if you've heard any success stories about this particular combination.

Prozessor: Intel® Core™ i7-4710MQ Quad-Core , 2,5 GHz, bis zu 3,5 GHz
HDD: 750 GB 7200 U/min SATA
RAM: 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3L SDRAM (2 x 4 GB), max. 32 GB
Graphics: AMD Firepro W5170M (2 GB dedizierte GDDR5) + Intel HD 4600
Express Card slot
Thunderbolt 2
Win 7 64 or Win 8.1


I thought it would be a good choice to have BOTH ExpressCard and Thunderbolt, in case one of them won't work properly with the FF400. But still, I am not sure if this laptop would be the perfect one...

- Can you recommend this machine?
- If yes, with Win 7 or 8.1? (Any differences regarding its stability with the FF400?)

Any advice would be highly appreciated.
Thanks a lot,
Greetings from Budapest

RME FF400, Elitebook 8560p, Cubase 6.5
  • Registered: 2008-01-01
  • Posts: 3,025

Re: All ways to connect Fireface 400 firewire to modern computer

Just to mention it: The Apple Thunderbolt->Firewire adapter does work on Windows based PCs.

  • Registered: 2015-10-10
  • Posts: 1

Re: All ways to connect Fireface 400 firewire to modern computer

Timur, is this why I'm having no luck with my FF800 and thunderbolt equipped ASUS PC laptop.. It's stuttering like a boneshaker on a cobbled road!

17 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2015-10-11 12:36:00)

  • ramses
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Re: All ways to connect Fireface 400 firewire to modern computer

Balazs wrote:

Hi,

I am planning to by a Zbook 15 G2 (J8Z45ET#ABD) laptop to use it with my good old FF400. I was wondering if you've heard any success stories about this particular combination.

Prozessor: Intel® Core™ i7-4710MQ Quad-Core , 2,5 GHz, bis zu 3,5 GHz
HDD: 750 GB 7200 U/min SATA
RAM: 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3L SDRAM (2 x 4 GB), max. 32 GB
Graphics: AMD Firepro W5170M (2 GB dedizierte GDDR5) + Intel HD 4600
Express Card slot
Thunderbolt 2
Win 7 64 or Win 8.1

I thought it would be a good choice to have BOTH ExpressCard and Thunderbolt, in case one of them won't work properly with the FF400. But still, I am not sure if this laptop would be the perfect one...

- Can you recommend this machine?
- If yes, with Win 7 or 8.1? (Any differences regarding its stability with the FF400?)

Any advice would be highly appreciated.
Thanks a lot,
Greetings from Budapest

Try it out. If you have issues send it back.
From notebookcheck review (I found one in German) this looks good.
http://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-HP-ZB … 982.0.html

Be lucky that it also offers Win7 as an option. I would avoid Win8 and later.
Win 8 GUI is a joke.  They stole all useful for work and good looking (Start menu, sidebar widgets, Aero). With Win10 there are still issues with Cubase and other products. And Aero and sidebar widgets didn't come back you need to install add-on tools to get it back.

In terms of privacy and security. With Windows 8 and 10 they introduced, that the TPM environment (if you have the hardware inside) can't be deactivated. This is all more friendly to the industry than to the user in terms of subsystems which enable to enforece DRM and taking control over your system.
References (in german sorry):
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Platform_Module
https://netzpolitik.org/2015/wir-leaken … computing/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjAhrsC … e=youtu.be
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/ … 07013.html

I bought an expensive machine based on Win7 with workstation parts, and if it runs as well as the old consumer PC, then I hope I can stay on Win7 for the next 6+ years. Until then I hope the situation becomes hopefully better, but only if this is somehow supported by law.

IMHO, if you can get something where Win7 still runs be happy. Look that you get at least Win7 professional, otherwise you might be limited to 16 MB DRAM. Some shop still offer some Windows 7 OEM licenses (software builder).

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2016-03-24
  • Posts: 2

Re: All ways to connect Fireface 400 firewire to modern computer

Hey,

I have the same problem. I've replaced my Macbook Pro ( with  thunderbolt & firewire ports ) with a NEW  Powerfull Clevo P771 Laptop with 6700k desktop processor with thunderbolt 3.0 ( USB 3.1 type C) port.

I understand that it is premature to expect finding USB 3.1 Type C / Thunderbolt 3.0 accesories.

All I need is a Thunderbolt 3.0 to firewire adapter/ cable... or an Ethernet to FireWIre adapter.

Is there any chance to use my FireFace 800 in the future or it's time to throw it in the trash ???

Thanks

RME USER since 2002
  • cyrano
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Re: All ways to connect Fireface 400 firewire to modern computer

Universal Audio made it very simple: Want Thunderbolt? Buy a Mac. Need Windows? Use USB.

My FF400 was declared dead by the dealer who wanted to send it in to RME for a board replacement, costing around 600 euro. The owner, who made the transition from OSX to Windows was fairly fed up with the trouble the interface had caused him. So he bought a Yamaha.

I checked the FF400, that seemed to be working, but lost connection after seconds to half an hour. Then I connected it to an old PB G4 I sometimes use for recording. It worked, just like that. No dropped connections. I used it like that for several weeks, without any problem. I was already on the lookout for a second PB G4, as I liked the FF400 very much, even if i couldn't use it on a "modern" Mac.

Then I decided to try again on an Intel besed Mac. After half an hour of fiddling with OSX, it seemed stable. I've been using it like that for over six months now without any problem. It still doesn't work reliably with Windows, as I've found out last week.

The dealer obviously tested on a Windows machine too.

If you want firewire, buy a Mac.

If you want Windows, use USB.

And take care which computer you buy. I support several people who are on their third, fourth or fifth Windows laptop because previous ones didn't do it for audio. And it's not like buying the most powerful/expensive one will get you there. It's more like playing the lottery...

When it comes to desktops, I can tell you which one to buy or build. When it comes to (new) laptops, your guess is as good as mine.

MB Pro - 2 X FireFace 400, FF800 & DigiFace USB
ADAT gear: Korg, Behri, Fostex, Alesis...

cyrano's Website

20 Reply by tzzsmk (edited by tzzsmk 2016-03-24 22:34:47)

  • tzzsmk
  • tzzsmk
  • AES/EBU artist
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  • Registered: 2016-03-14
  • Posts: 139

Re: All ways to connect Fireface 400 firewire to modern computer

(not going to read all the long posts above, so my apologies in advance if I repeat something already mentioned)
I do PC hardware and software consulting way beyond audio world, so let me share my point of view:
at current situation of hardware manufacturers not really knowing what will come up next, best way is to look for something versatile,
there is actually one best option, which is PCIexpress - means you'd need to build/buy some mini desktop PC, with at least one PCIx16 slot - this would let you to plug whatever expansion card you think of, leaving "all choices open" for plenty years ahead - you can get USB-C 3.1, USB 3.0, FireWire 400, FireWire 800, maybe even Thunderbolt, eventually some RME HDSPe card (AiO, RayDAT, MADI FX - huge advantage here is that PCIex slot is communicating with computer processor directly, not through additional bus like USB/FireWire which helps a lot in terms of reliability and latency)
and regarding Windows (7) vs Mac OS X, it does not really matter, because it's actual hardware and drivers optimization which matter, and basically depends if the software you use is available on particular platform - my decent PC Windows 7 workstation (overclocked i7-5820K to 4.3/4.4GHz, 32GB 2666MHz DDR4, ASUS X99-S, EVGA GTX980Ti 6GB GDDR5, Samsung 850 EVO 500GB SSD, pair of 2TB Seagate 7200.14, RME HDSPe AIO..) beats 5300$-worth-MacPro for about half price and honestly there is absolutely nothing to justify Apple hilarious prices...
OH and about USB-C connector, beware - it can be either USB 3.1, or power input, or Thunderbolt, or external PCIex or any combination of those at once

HDSPe AIO, ADI-2 DAC, Fireface UFX, Octamic D, Octamic II
Reaper, Windows 11, M2 Studio
  • Registered: 2008-03-16
  • Posts: 21

Re: All ways to connect Fireface 400 firewire to modern computer

Bogdan Pop wrote:

All I need is a Thunderbolt 3.0 to firewire adapter/ cable... or an Ethernet to FireWIre adapter.

check this: https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopi … 84#p115284

  • Registered: 2008-01-01
  • Posts: 3,025

Re: All ways to connect Fireface 400 firewire to modern computer

Apple's new, small and *bi*directional Thunderbolt3-to-Thunderbolt2 adapter for $49:

http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMEL2 … r?fnode=4c

  • Registered: 2008-07-26
  • Posts: 30

Re: All ways to connect Fireface 400 firewire to modern computer

Guys, anyone found a good working solution with PC laptop for FF400? So pity to throw FF400 away - such a workhorse still now.

As for info above - even new macbook pro users complain their Thunderbolt 3 > Thunderbolt 2 > FW800 > FW400 doesn't work

Any PC laptop with thunderbolt 3 successful setups?

Maybe some dock station with thunderbolt will work?