1 Topic by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,582

Topic: The official Babyface Pro Thread

This thread should provide a lot of details, questions and answers on RME’s new Babyface Pro. Let me first state that the BF Pro started as a simple update to the old Babyface, over a year ago, and ended up as a completely reengineered unit, where nothing inside (as well as outside) is the same as before. It took longer than expected, it needed more resources, and became more expensive than planned. But the final product is just worth everything that we had to fight with during development. It is phantastic, beautiful, convincing, rock solid, perfect sounding, easy to use, robust, and everyone who had the chance to play with it fell in love immediately!

During development we had to fight with two topics all the time – power consumption and cost. We wanted to improve the technical specifications, lower THD, increase I/O levels, add 2 analog channels, add more LEDs and buttons – but still tried to keep the mobile aspect of having it run bus powered on every computer without an additional, external power supply.

The result is quite impressive. We accomplished everything from the wish list, and current drawn rose only by 100 mA (equaling 0.5 Watts). As a comparison: that's 80% less than our first prototype!

Some of the new technology used generates higher cost compared to the old Babyface. Still we think that the price increase, seeing the vast improvements and additions, is worth it. Once the unit starts shipping you will agree that it is not expensive, but compared to what you get the price point is typical for RME - high quality at an unusual low price point.

The above points also led to the exclusion of Dynamics. That would have required a bigger FPGA plus an additional DSP chip, resulting in too high cost as well as too high power consumption. Sorry.

So we took our first final samples to the Frankfurt Musikmesse to show them to the public, and got much more positive feedback than we ever expected. Thank you all for that!

Of course there will always be people who need something different than what the unit offers. You really need Dynamics? Please consider a UCX then. You want the old breakout cable back? Then you are quite alone with that. ADAT on the side is terrible? Interestingly no one of the development team liked the idea. You have to see it live and use it on your desktop to realize: 2 thin cables going away from the side, very flexible so they can be bent to the back easily, are simply no problem at all. We did our best with the included 90° angled USB connector to keep cables not spreading out everywhere, but in real-world it simply isn’t an issue at all.

In a forum someone complained about the phones outputs on the right side, claiming that these have to be at the front. This would have the disadvantage of your wrist/hand lying on them all the time while using the big knob or buttons…one can’t be more wrong than that, it seems.

We, the development team as well as a few experts from our global distribution network have the pleasure to use the Babyface Pro daily. While some would call it ‘testing’, we enjoy it as listening to music, doing recordings, operating the simple user surface (without having to read the manual), changing between online modes on Mac and PC, stand-alone mode and Class Compliant operation, easily, quickly, and with no hassle at all. This unit is more fun than anything else we ever built. And you need serious threats to get a unit back from those who had the chance to try it!


Now here is the first bunch of question and answers. Feel free to come up with more.

- What an ugly plastic housing!
We were quite shocked to read comments like that. The 600 grams housing is machined from 2 blocks of aluminum with highest precision, no comparison to the old die cast housing. The reason for such comments lies in another superior technology used here. The final aluminum halfs, top and bottom, receive a special surface treatment similar to sand-blasting. But in this case small steel balls are jammed at it. These compress the upper part of the aluminum and make it more scratch resistant. At the same time it gets a smooth finish that makes people think about plastic fakes from HiFi amps that try to look like metal – when just looking at the renders that we published to the press. Take the Babyface Pro in your hand, and a fraction of a second later you know you got the real deal.

- How come the new BF Pro can work more reliable on USB bus power when it even draws more current than the old one?
The old Babyface had ‘simpler’ line regulators and tried to work as good as it could with the power coming out of the USB socket. If such sockets, or the cables used were keeping the voltage below 4.6 V the Babyface started failing. In the Babyface Pro a special power circuit re-generates the internal power lines and lets the Babyface work down to 3.6 V!

- Still you draw more power than the USB spec allows (500 mA).
True, but you won’t find any computer these days that has a problem with that. Even older ones happily supply at least 900 mA, some even more, and that is not a case of modern power specs or smartphone charging. It simply worked like that. The only ‘problem’ was that the voltage dropped to around 4.6 volts or lower, which was a no-go for the old Babyface, and then required either the use of the Y cable, or of an external power supply. Additionally, we live in times of USB 3, where these sockets provide more than 900 mA anyway. Also to any connected USB 2 interface.

- RME was the first to come up with USB 3 and now the new Babyface Pro has only USB 2?
Do you really want to pay a lot of money for something that doesn’t give you any advantage? USB 3 does NOT reduce latency at all. It just delivers more bandwidth to transfer more channels. RME can easily transfer up to 70 channels I/O over USB 2 (MADIface XT, MADIface USB). The Babyface has just 12 channels I/O. USB would have made it significantly more expensive due to a bigger FPGA and a special USB 3 phy required – for nothing.

- Why can’t I charge my iPad in Class Compliant mode?
This functionality requires MFi certification with modifications in hardware and software, plus a special USB to Lightning cable. As this would have added substantial cost to all users, regardless if they need and use it or not, we opted to not add this functionality.

- Why didn’t you use a nice modern LCD or even touch screen as display?
Simply because they come with a hefty price tag, and once you played around with the new 4 bar LED display (which is even optimized for low current consumption) you will realize that it is all you need. The new operation modes and the signalling through the LEDs cover everything, from status to guidance, shown in an intuitive, easy to understand way. The only criticism I would accept is that we should have had some of these ideas already with the old Babyface. Taken.

The last three questions had a common topic - cost. Note that we decided to put all the money into the sound quality. Better SNR, THD, professional I/O levels, more powerful phones output, stunning frequency response and top-notch stable operation were more important to us than the three topics raised above.

- How far can I throw the device?
Farther than any other audio interface. The reason is the shaped bottom that equals a plane's wing shape, causing the so called uplift effect known from aviation. Note that after its flight the Babyface Pro might no longer be working as expected.

- Does turning the wheel too much make me feel dizzy?
Definitely. You can increase the effect by adding a spiral sticker as known from the Time Tunnel tv classics.

- Can I use two headphones at the same time, and why aren’t both outputs low impedance?
The headphones get the same signal (channels 3/4), but have separated driver circuits, so one isn’t affecting the other, two headphones is no problem. Providing ample current at high voltages is, especially in a bus powered device like the Babyface Pro. The output with the higher output level (+13 dBu) has a serial resistor as short-circuit protection of 10 Ohms, equaling its output impedance. The small TRS output delivers only +7 dBu output level, therefore the short circuit protection can be much smaller, in this case 2 Ohms. Level and output impedance make it work perfectly with low impedance phones as they have become popular with the smartphone virus, and are now available even as HiFi Hi-End versions with less than 80 Ohms, but increased efficiency, so the lower output level is fully sufficient.

- I want to know everything about the new Babyface Pro. Give me more details – ANY details!
As usual with RME the manual has ALL the details, on 94 pages, available in English and German. Read it here:

https://archiv.rme-audio.de/download/bface_pro_d.pdf

https://archiv.rme-audio.de/download/bface_pro_e.pdf

- Is the unit still the same as when presented in Frankfurt?
Of course not. RME never stops development nor adding improvements, new ideas and useful features. The manuals are on the very latest state already, and mention:
- mic gain now adjustable in steps of 1 dB over a range of 65 dB (plus 11 dB PAD)
- optional output copy mode for iOS operation
- special display easter egg (written with invisible ink)

- I like videos!
We too. Here is one in English and one in German that give a good impression and overview on the Babyface Pro.

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2015/04/ … ave-video/

http://www.delamar.de/musik-equipment/r … -mm-27850/

(Sorry for all the other teams that came along in Frankfurt. There are lots of videos available, this is just a random choice. And one correction: the stand in the video is not self-made, but available from König&Meyer, Design microphone table stand 23250).

- When is it shipping?
We cannot give an exact date, currently it is said end of June. Note that the first two production runs are sold out already, so make sure your dealer reserve one for you upfront.

- Other threads about the Babyface Pro so far:

https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=22017
https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=22162
https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=22123
https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=22009

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2013-08-25
  • Posts: 5

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

MC wrote:

In a forum someone complained about the phones outputs on the right side, claiming that these have to be at the front. This would have the disadvantage of your wrist/hand lying on them all the time while using the big knob or buttons…one can’t be more wrong than that, it seems.

On the slight chance that it was me you were calling out, I'd like to clarify. I did say the following in a thread about the Babyface Pro on another forum:

UltimateOutsider wrote:

Also, after seeing the Babyface Pro more closely in the Sonic State video, I am more concerned about the placement of the jacks. For a desktop interface, the front of the unit makes more sense to me for a headphone jack, and while the angled USB connector is nice, at least on my desk, I don't currently have room for something with cables hanging out both sides and the back. I use the analog, ADAT, and MIDI on my MOTU Track 16, and that means I'd have cables plugged into three sides of the Babyface Pro.

For reference, here is a picture of my desk:

http://i.imgur.com/s0f8MgE.jpg

That's the Track 16 interface wedged between my monitor and desktop speaker. You can see that on my desk, in my situation, my headphone jack is in no danger of being bumped or squashed by my hands, and there really isn't room for me to have cables hanging out the left, right, and back of an interface. In my post I wasn't dictating how I felt all interfaces should be designed. Rather, I was expressing personal disappointment that the new Babyface probably wouldn't physically fit on my desk. That's all. I still think it looks great. (And actually I'm thinking of getting a different desk this summer so I can fit a bigger keyboard on it, and I might end up with more real estate for a Babyface Pro. We'll see.)

If it wasn't me you were talking about, then I apologize for the confusion. I am a customer and advocate of RME; just wish I had a bigger desk!

  • From: Houston, TX
  • Registered: 2007-05-11
  • Posts: 1,191

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Was lucky enough to see the BF-Pro demo @ NAB in April (also got to meet Jeff Peterson - What a great guy! ).  Needless to say, it was totally unexpected, and had my jaw dropped to the floor.  You are great keepers of secrets over in RME land!

Seriously pondering upgrading my trusty old MF-I in my home Desktop DAW PC with the BF-Pro when they become readily available.

One additional question I posed to Jeff at NAB:
Can you configure any of the physical buttons to allow Speaker A / Speaker B switching (like I do from the ARC + MF-XT at the studio)??  Mains = XLR's, Speaker B = 3+4 1/4".


UltimateOutsider wrote:

I am a customer and advocate of RME; just wish I had a bigger desk!

Mount those LCD monitors on cheap Monoprice VESA Wall Mounts.  Real estate problem solved smile


Rock on RME! cool

MADIface-XT+ARC / 3x HDSP MADI / ADI648
2x SSL Alphalink MADI AX
2x Multiface / 2x Digiface /2x ADI8

4 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,582

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

@UltimateOutsider: Well, it looks to me as if the BF Pro would fit perfectly even on that desk. Anyway, this one got me ROFL:

> more real estate for a Babyface Pro.

Change interface - buy new house... smile

@Randyman:
>Can you configure any of the physical buttons to allow Speaker A / Speaker B switching (like I do from the ARC + MF-XT at the studio)??  Mains = XLR's, Speaker B = 3+4 1/4".

Of course.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • From: Houston, TX
  • Registered: 2007-05-11
  • Posts: 1,191

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

MC wrote:

@Randyman:
>Can you configure any of the physical buttons to allow Speaker A / Speaker B switching (like I do from the ARC + MF-XT at the studio)??  Mains = XLR's, Speaker B = 3+4 1/4".

Of course.

Sweet!  I think this capability hadn't been solidified when I saw the BF-Pro demo unit @ NAB.  This is an additional motivator for me to upgrade smile (Like having a built-in ARC for Speaker-B selection!)

cool

MADIface-XT+ARC / 3x HDSP MADI / ADI648
2x SSL Alphalink MADI AX
2x Multiface / 2x Digiface /2x ADI8
  • tpcjk
  • New member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2015-06-15
  • Posts: 2

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Looks like a great unit. Only one disappointment...why are inputs 3 & 4 unbalanced, hi-Z only? I can't be the only one who would want to hook up an external preamp for another two mic inputs, so this is less than ideal.

Wouldn't it have made more sense to make the TS on the combo jacks (1 & 2) the unbalanced, hi-Z, and then make 3 & 4 balanced TRS line-in? Then you would still have hi-Z for those who need them, but also have 4 balanced channels available, too.

  • From: France
  • Registered: 2013-10-18
  • Posts: 55

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

The input 3 & 4 are two instrument/line inputs. Not only Hi-Z. And yes, they are unbalanced. So you can use this inputs for any preamp or synth.

Bertrand Allaume

Megalobass's Website

  • From: Darwin, Australia
  • Registered: 2011-06-05
  • Posts: 23

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

I haven't checked here for a while. I am really happy to this new Babyface. I have been through nearly all the small footprint interfaces and constantly come back to the RME babyface.
So you can imagine, very pleased to see this unit.
Also I am glad you didn't go for a "nice modern LCD or even touch screen as display". They are not "optimum" (to me), and present difficulties in conditions such as where I live: The Tropics.

Anyway. Excellent news, can't wait.
smile

The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.

~ Albert Einstein
  • tpcjk
  • New member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2015-06-15
  • Posts: 2

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Megalobass wrote:

The input 3 & 4 are two instrument/line inputs. Not only Hi-Z. And yes, they are unbalanced. So you can use this inputs for any preamp or synth.

The marketing material describes 3 & 4 as instrument/line, but the tech specs in the downloadable manual say that the impedance on 3 & 4 is 470 kOhm. Some clarification from RME would be helpful.

Regardless of the impedance, the fact that 3 & 4 take unbalanced inputs, only, is still less than ideal if you're in a high RF interference environment. My original point stands: I understand the need for an unbalanced input for people connecting electric guitars directly. But ideally you would have 4 balanced inputs with the option for unbalanced on one or two of them. The original Babyface had  separate XLR balanced/TS unbalanced jacks into the same AD converter for channel 2. Other manufacturers have combination XLR/TS jacks, with the XLR balanced and the TS unbalanced. Either of these would have been a better solution than leaving the 2 channels unbalanced only.

10 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,582

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

tpcjk wrote:

Looks like a great unit. Only one disappointment...why are inputs 3 & 4 unbalanced, hi-Z only? I can't be the only one who would want to hook up an external preamp for another two mic inputs, so this is less than ideal.

Wouldn't it have made more sense to make the TS on the combo jacks (1 & 2)

There are no 'combo' jacks (???).

tpcjk wrote:

The marketing material describes 3 & 4 as instrument/line, but the tech specs in the downloadable manual say that the impedance on 3 & 4 is 470 kOhm. Some clarification from RME would be helpful.

A line input can have any impedance. Just because it has 470 kOhm does not mean it can not handle line signals perfectly. As long as THD and SNR are as expected (looooow) it will work in the same way as an input having only 10 kOhm input impedance.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

11 Reply by DjSinae (edited by DjSinae 2015-06-25 20:32:49)

  • Registered: 2011-05-30
  • Posts: 21

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

I CANT BELIEVE YOU DIDNT GIVE 4 balanced line out.. 

that card would be perfect for live use with dj mixers but it need 4 balanced out but now it's just a real mess of compromise..

Also the dac of the babyface was quite harsh and the good reviews about it was clearly made by deft peoples.

i hope you fixed that ear peircing dac

Now if you don't have 4 lineout you have to give us a way to use that card 4 out with djmixers and that both channel sound exactly the same.. TELL ME HOW!!!???

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
  • Posts: 9,770

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

The Fireface UC or UCX both feature 4 (and more) balanced outputs. With a suitable splitter cable, you can also connect the BF's phones output to the mixer, the sound quality will be the same.

As for conversion quality, there is no known issue that needs to be "fixed". That said, the BF Pro has got different and newer converters, but there is no specific or intentional change to the sound quality.


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

  • Registered: 2009-05-02
  • Posts: 105

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

MC wrote:

- Why can’t I charge my iPad in Class Compliant mode?
This functionality requires MFi certification with modifications in hardware and software, plus a special USB to Lightning cable. As this would have added substantial cost to all users, regardless if they need and use it or not, we opted to not add this functionality.

Soooo important! I am a little bit disappointed, although RME devices for years are my first choice. I am convinced, not only for me this is the future in ever more (mobile) audio productions in all genres: no Laptops/Desktops anymore but tablet-PCs and Smartphones with audio interfaces that for sure have the ability to charge the mobile devices for unlimited access.
So why not a product concept with optional lightning cable to charge iOS-devices? Or a second more expensive product line with MFi onboard (similar to Apogee)? Schade…

There are only less than a handful interfaces on market with this important ability, but they exist. I am not a hardware developer but for me it seems not only a must of MFi certification?! What about connectivity's "iconnectAudio4", that seems to work without MFi certification? Or iRig PowerBridge (not available yet) that perhaps also will do the job without certification?!

Perhaps the next time with Babyface Pro2 or even better with RME'S new Fireface UMX with Durec, 8 Mic-Inputs and Hardware OSC in form factor of UCX tongue

Davon ab ist alles aus dem Hause RME allerdings unvergleichliche Spitze cool

  • Registered: 2012-09-07
  • Posts: 29

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Is this still due out in July?

  • Registered: 2015-07-13
  • Posts: 1

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

miscend wrote:

Is this still due out in July?

I´ve received an email from Sweetwater guy telling me that it would be ready by the end of August, just a few days after that "prepare your gear" email sad

16 Reply by gregerlindberg (edited by gregerlindberg 2015-07-15 21:07:14)

  • From: Sweden
  • Registered: 2009-09-27
  • Posts: 62

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Dumb question i guess. But is the BF pro daisychainable with the fireface800 in some way shape or form? To utilize some extra channels if one would want to?


"edit" And why the heck does it say AD/DA expert under my name! Haha, thats the least thing i am...
And i cant seem to change it either..

17 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,582

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

The BF Pro can be used as stand-alone AD/DA converter, connected via ADAT to the FF 800. That gives you 4 more ins and outs at up to 96 kHz. If that is enough for you then the beauty in this solution is that you get a second, mobile audio interface, so you are more flexible in operation and working. The BF Pro manual has a detailed description about using it in stand-alone mode.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • From: Sweden
  • Registered: 2009-09-27
  • Posts: 62

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Excellent, thank you for that!
Just gotta wait for the release now then. big_smile

  • Registered: 2014-11-13
  • Posts: 4

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Hi. I was wondering when the new babyface pro be released? I sold my old babyface and I can't wait!

20 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,582

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Yesterday it was party time for us at RME because the first end-production and to be shipped Babyface Pro (with sleeve, manual etc.) left the shrink wrap machine at the factory! So we are up and running and in full swing to deliver the Babyface Pro as soon as possible.

The official shipment is in about two weeks, producing many BF Pros until then, and will be sent out all over the world. Due to the high demand and many pre-orders I don't think it will show up as stock in stores before the end of August. Hope you had yours pre-ordered as well.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2015-07-31
  • Posts: 7

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

really happy when MC told that the date of shipment is about to come!
I'd like to ask how to make a pre-ordered? I'm in China and I've been pre-register on babyface pros website.
Hope to hear from RME soon.

22 Reply by HJD

  • HJD
  • New member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2015-08-01
  • Posts: 2

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Congratulations to RME with the first production Babyface Pro leaving the factory! smile

I am wondering if I could use a Babyface Pro to improve the audio quality of the recordings I make with my Roland R-26 field recorder? I record voice over / dialog and use a field recorder for easy location recording and to avoid having a computer fan turn up in the recordings. I usually record in very quiet non reflecting environments and I get a slight background hiss which i believe comes from the preamp in my recorder. I guess I could use the Babyface Pro in standalone mode and connect it through line in on the Roland and thus almost bypass the preamps on my recorder, but I would still end up with the A/D conversion being handled by the R-26, wouldn't I? I'm still learning the technicalities of recording. I also wish RME made a field recorder! :-) There appears to be an empty void between budget field recorders made by Zoom, Tascam and Roland and the very expensive professional grade recorders from Sound Devices. It would be great if RME could fill that void with a high quality and reasonably priced field recorder. I'm sure there are also a lot of videographers that would rejoice if that happened.  Is there any way to suggest this other than posting here? And do you have any other tips on using the Babyface Pro for recording in standalone mode?

Congratulations once again on the new Babyface Pro! big_smile

  • Registered: 2015-08-01
  • Posts: 1

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

I'm so happy that the BF Pro is finally coming. I've seen on a bunch of Japanese website that it will be released on 18th August, will it be the same in Europe ?

  • Registered: 2015-08-06
  • Posts: 4

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

I've been trying to find out what the impedance of the headphone outputs is. I currently have the Sennheisers HD650's and they are 300 ohm. I pre-ordered the babyface pro hoping I could have one solution rather than having a headphone amp and my DAC.

25 Reply by Max

  • Max
  • Max
  • Moderator
  • Online
  • Registered: 2007-05-09
  • Posts: 315

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

HJD wrote:

almost bypass the preamps on my recorder, but I would still end up with the A/D conversion being handled by the R-26, wouldn't I?

Yes. You should test it. Depending on the internal design and components of the R-26, you might achieve better sound quality with the Babyface Pro. When you record in real quiet locations, you need a lot of gain in order to avoid having to normalize the converter noise of the R-26 along with the signal after the recording (if you left a lot of headroom). Avoiding that headroom by using higher gain reduces the converter noise in relation to the signal you recorded. The Babyface Pro has a gain range of 76dB (65dB in 1dB steps + 11dB PAD to offset that range).

jforkner wrote:

I've been trying to find out what the impedance of the headphone outputs is.

Specs are in the manual: 2 ohms on the 3.5mm jack, 10 ohms on the 6.3mm jack. The HD 650 will therefore work fine on both ports and not sound different, except that the 6.3mm jack is louder.

  • Registered: 2015-08-06
  • Posts: 4

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Max wrote:
jforkner wrote:

I've been trying to find out what the impedance of the headphone outputs is.

Specs are in the manual: 2 ohms on the 3.5mm jack, 10 ohms on the 6.3mm jack. The HD 650 will therefore work fine on both ports and not sound different, except that the 6.3mm jack is louder.

I feel like I'm missing something. How would 10 ohms power 300 ohm headphones adequately?

27 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,582

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Just by doing it, as every other phones output does. You must be confused somehow.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

28 Reply by HJD

  • HJD
  • New member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2015-08-01
  • Posts: 2

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Max wrote:
HJD wrote:

almost bypass the preamps on my recorder, but I would still end up with the A/D conversion being handled by the R-26, wouldn't I?

Yes. You should test it. Depending on the internal design and components of the R-26, you might achieve better sound quality with the Babyface Pro. When you record in real quiet locations, you need a lot of gain in order to avoid having to normalize the converter noise of the R-26 along with the signal after the recording (if you left a lot of headroom). Avoiding that headroom by using higher gain reduces the converter noise in relation to the signal you recorded. The Babyface Pro has a gain range of 76dB (65dB in 1dB steps + 11dB PAD to offset that range).

Thanks for your reply Max! smile
I usually record with levels peaking around -6 or -9dB, but last time it was -12dB. I make a noise profile in post and when I reduce the slight hiss with 9dB or so, I am usually quite satisfied with the result. It would,  however, be nice to get even cleaner audio to begin with - unless adding an external preamp would end up complicating things too much. Yes, I might just give it a try, I guess that's the only real way to find out. Thanks for your input!

  • Registered: 2015-08-22
  • Posts: 2

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Hi,



Would the rme Fireface ucx be better in terms of sound quality, depth and dynamics compared to the new Babyface Pro to drive Genelec 8050's?
I'm quite worried for it being usb powered. I'm kinda looking for an audio interface pure for audio playback, and my main need is an spdif in.

30 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,582

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

The Babyface Pro does have a power supply socket, no need to use it bus powered. And it is a perfect DAC for your Genelecs. So if your SPDIF is optical - perfect solution. If not, converters coaxial/optical are cheap and easily available.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

31 Reply by Dimoroc (edited by Dimoroc 2015-08-22 20:45:37)

  • Registered: 2015-08-22
  • Posts: 2

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

I will connect it from my creative x-fi titanium hd soundcard through spdif optical to the audio interface. Will this work? Does it then play high res audio 24bit 192kHz?

How's the sound quality of the Babyface Pro, compared to the FF uxc? Are the dynamics equal? Is it an upgrade from the old Babyface, as I read the older version compared to the FF ucx, the FF ucx had slightly more dynamics?

And is RME NT-RME-2 the power supply that's working with the Babyface pro, which is not included in the box?

32 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,582

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

1. Yes. But I do not know if the X-Fi can play out 192 kHz via its optical port.

2. The Pro is a clear upgrade to the old Babyface, with both improved analog circuitry as well as AD/DA converters (clearly described in the first post of this thread)..

3. Yes, but you can also use most other similar power supplies for it (in case you have one lying around).

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2012-03-21
  • Posts: 30

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Hi Matthias,
has the shipping to Italy of the BF Pro started? If not, when is it suposed to take place? ... need that info for financial tweaking!

Thanks in advance

  • Registered: 2015-08-28
  • Posts: 3

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

I got my Babyface Pro last week and I am totally in love with it. Just one thing I noticed: the input 3 is a bit too close to the small headphones out. When you have a bit thicker jacks both can't be connected at the same time.

35 Reply by rexet (edited by rexet 2015-09-03 14:52:20)

  • rexet
  • rexet
  • AD/DA expert
  • Offline
  • From: Paris
  • Registered: 2007-05-08
  • Posts: 66

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Hi there,

I just sold my Babyface yesterday and one hour later I purchased the Babyface PRO instead. I previously owned a Multiface and a Fireface 800 (RME addicted).

The device looks great and robust. My only complaint regarding the design is the two buttons SELECT and DIM that are not very accurate. Indeed I have to press them in the right corner to activate them. For instance if I click on the lower part of the button I can actualy feel and hear the mechanical "click" but nothing happen. It works better when I press on the upper part of the button.

I am wondering if I have a "bad" unit but it was actualy the last one in stock at my local shop so I didn't get the chance to check another unit.

Ok now let's play with it to see how it performs smile !

Current: RME UCX II
Previous: Multiface > Fireface 800 > Babyface > Babyface Pro > Babyface Pro FS
  • tom72
  • New member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2015-09-04
  • Posts: 1

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Hi Rexet,

I have the exact same experience with the buttons SELECT and DIM. Hopefully this will not escalate further. On the other hand, no doubt ... this is a small technical masterpiece in a very strong case.

Matthias, your excellent explanation gave me confidence and took all my doubts in the quest for a perfect interface!!

Just now, I still want to find a suitable power supply for use with the IPAD.  It doesn't work with the AC adapter of my BOSS guitar pedals (INPUT: 120VAC 60Hz 9W     OUTPUT: 9.6V DC 200mA + ---C--- ).

RME Babyface pro

37 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,582

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

You need 9 V and at least 500 mA with + center pin.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • rexet
  • rexet
  • AD/DA expert
  • Offline
  • From: Paris
  • Registered: 2007-05-08
  • Posts: 66

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Thank you tom72 for your feedback that confort me of not having purchased a bad unit. I guess it is just a very small design flaw and when you get use to it is not a very big deal.

By the way, I don't remember well but I recall that I had more gain on the instrument jack input of my Babyface v1. I was able to set up the gain to reach the -3db with my guitar without any problem. But now with the Babyface Pro I only have 9db max gain and it is not enough for my Fender Telecaster. What am I missing here?

Current: RME UCX II
Previous: Multiface > Fireface 800 > Babyface > Babyface Pro > Babyface Pro FS

39 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,582

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

The switch from +4 dBu to -10 dBV. In the TotalMix FX Tool panel.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

40 Reply by rexet (edited by rexet 2015-09-05 09:32:11)

  • rexet
  • rexet
  • AD/DA expert
  • Offline
  • From: Paris
  • Registered: 2007-05-08
  • Posts: 66

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Thank you Matthias but even with the switch set on -10 dBV, the gain at +9 and the volume of my instrument set to the max I am not able to saturate the input level which was possible on my previous Babyface if I remember well. Meaning I can't fine tune to reach the best input level.

Current: RME UCX II
Previous: Multiface > Fireface 800 > Babyface > Babyface Pro > Babyface Pro FS

41 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,582

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Your telecaster should reach 0 dBFS already at +4 with 6 dB Gain. Guirar cable defective? Vol pot turned down? Foot pedal in-between? To check the BF: simply connect the big phones output channels as loop back to the Inst inputs. At +4 dBu with 0 dB gain they will match, nearly same I/O level. If the input is not sensitive enough (defective) you would see a much lower input level.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

42 Reply by rexet (edited by rexet 2015-09-05 23:49:33)

  • rexet
  • rexet
  • AD/DA expert
  • Offline
  • From: Paris
  • Registered: 2007-05-08
  • Posts: 66

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Thank you Matthias for you help.
- Guitar cable defective? > I will try another one
- Vol pot turned down? > no, up to the max
- Foot pedal in-between? > no, just the guitar directly in the BF with an unbalanced jack cable

I tried what you mention.
I play a -18 dBfs 1kHz sine wave file, I connect the big phone output to the Inst Input 3 (with the same guitar cable). I set the channel to +4 dBu with 0 dB gain. Like you said, all the level seems to match:

http://rexet.free.fr/images/babyface_loop.jpg

Could it be my guitar?

Current: RME UCX II
Previous: Multiface > Fireface 800 > Babyface > Babyface Pro > Babyface Pro FS

43 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,582

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

I don't know. All I know is that all guitars that I ever tried can easily reach 0 dBFS in +4 dBu setting with none or just a few dB gain. Setting it to -10 dBV with 9 dB gain means 18 dB lower level! A guitar with such low output level seems not normal to me.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • rexet
  • rexet
  • AD/DA expert
  • Offline
  • From: Paris
  • Registered: 2007-05-08
  • Posts: 66

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

I may have the opportunity to try 3 other electric guitars today, I will keep you informed.

Current: RME UCX II
Previous: Multiface > Fireface 800 > Babyface > Babyface Pro > Babyface Pro FS
  • rexet
  • rexet
  • AD/DA expert
  • Offline
  • From: Paris
  • Registered: 2007-05-08
  • Posts: 66

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Well I tried two other guitars this afternoon.
They do have a higher output than my Fender Telecaster and on most pickup configurations I am able to reach the 0 dBFS. But when I select only a single coil pickup configuration I have to switch to -10 dBV and crank up the gain quite a lot.

Noob question: why does the gain is limited to 9dB for these 3&4 line input? What is the difference with the Instr Input of the Babyface v1?

Current: RME UCX II
Previous: Multiface > Fireface 800 > Babyface > Babyface Pro > Babyface Pro FS

46 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,582

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

They are separated inputs with their own ADC, no longer using the mic preamp channel. Please note that using a guitar you need quite some headroom. It is easy to have short peaks reaching or exceeding 0 dBFS, while your normal playing might stay below -9 dBFS. Therefore I expect -10 dBV with 9 dB gain to be fully sufficient even with a single coil.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

47 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2015-09-07 07:13:18)

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 13,183

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Did you test by pushing the strings very hard with open strings, power cords and "pumping" play style where the right hand alternatively dampens the strings. It can create higher peaks.

If you record with 24bit resolution, you have such a high dynamic range, that its probably better to have the headroom and not reach the 0db for certain.

If you have a mix of different tracks and you are using comp, eq, etc .. then the signals add up. You need also some headroom later for mastering being able to use summ compressor, multiband compressor etc etc.

So if you end up with your setup to produce a guitar track that delivers -9 dB, then this is just right, otherwise you have to turn the volume down anyway in the mix ....

Another thing might be, that the height of the pickups (distance to the strings) might require little adjustment.
But keep it as it is, if it sounds well with your amp.

I am Gibson style player. When I got my 1st Telecaster it also sounded a little bit thin to me. As it was a cheap Squier ("bad weather and backup guitar") I decided to use pickups of higher quality and higher output. Along with that I also used a wiring with 4-way switch that additionally allows to put the 2 PUs in series which even delivers a little bit more output. Maybe an option for you as well:

http://www.thomann.de/de/fender_texas_s … ele_pu.htm
http://www.rockinger.com/index.php?cat= … 2213df5572
Used it for this model:
http://www.thomann.de/de/fender_squier_ … b_2013.htm

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • rexet
  • rexet
  • AD/DA expert
  • Offline
  • From: Paris
  • Registered: 2007-05-08
  • Posts: 66

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

I used a Bare Knuckles Brown Sugar pickup set on my Telecaster. With the Babyface Pro set to -10 I have enough signal to work with but I was just wondering why I was not able to have a better input level.
Matthias > regarding the SELECT and DIM buttons that are tricky to use because of the manufacturing, does it impact all the BF Pro (since tom72 seems to have the same exprience) or should I exchange it for another unit? I don't want to sound picky but I am used to a to notch manufacturing from RME.

Current: RME UCX II
Previous: Multiface > Fireface 800 > Babyface > Babyface Pro > Babyface Pro FS

49 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
  • Administrator
  • Offline
  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 25,582

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Please contact your local distributor, they will exchange the unit for you.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • rexet
  • rexet
  • AD/DA expert
  • Offline
  • From: Paris
  • Registered: 2007-05-08
  • Posts: 66

Re: The official Babyface Pro Thread

Thank you Matthias. I will follow your advice and will bring the unit back to the shop this week. It is actually out of stock but I will wait for the new batch to arrive. I'll keep you informed if the buttons have the same behaviour.

Current: RME UCX II
Previous: Multiface > Fireface 800 > Babyface > Babyface Pro > Babyface Pro FS