Topic: Madiface XT buffer performance problems

Hi, I'm hoping someone can shed some light.  I have changed my studio over to madi in the past 6 months with the Madiface XT as my hub.  I have owned both the FF800 and UFX in the past.  both units have run completely flawless.  With the UFX i could achieve buffer sizes from 4096 to 32 samples.  I thought I'd be able to get the same numbers with the Madiface although I can only do 2048 to 256. I'm also  having serious issues with changing the buffer sizes on my madiface.  with the Madiface simply running an mp3 in a player I can smoothly change from 2048 to 256 samples.  If I change to 128 the audio keeps cutting in and out.  if I go to 64 it goes to complete white noise. 

a week ago my main CPU was a first generation i7 920.  I had originally believed it was a computer performance issue so this week I bought a new asus X99 sabretooth and intel 5820 chipset.  But the problem is exactly the same.  If I hookup the UFX which I use in a different room.....everything is super smooth all the way to 32 samples without a hitch.  My studio uses Cubase 8 and protools 10 native.  Input monitoring is often used for various synth and keyboard VSTs.  with only being able to go as low as 256 samples it makes this card unusable due to the delay. 

first off....is this normal for the Madiface XT?  if not....what can I do to fix the problem.

PS:  I have tested the performance in 3 separate PC's all with the same result. 

Thanks

Re: Madiface XT buffer performance problems

How is the unit connected, USB 2 or 3? If USB 2, try manually setting it to USB 2 mode.


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: Madiface XT buffer performance problems

It is connected to USB 3.  All drivers up to date.  I have tested both the USB 3.1, 3 and 2 ports.

Re: Madiface XT buffer performance problems

What's the USB chipset here?
http://www.rme-audio.de/en/products/madiface_xt.php#8

Regads
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: Madiface XT buffer performance problems

oh no.... it's ASMedia.  Are there any workarounds?  This computer I am on now is my second computer build this week.  I originally had an x99 MSI board that was having even worse performance problems.  I brought the Motherboard back and bought a much more expensive one hoping it would fix the problem. 

Are RME planning to release a driver with added compatibility in the future?

Thank you Dan....I totally missed those compatibility issues listed on the RME page.  My fault.

6

Re: Madiface XT buffer performance problems

All available motherboards include USB3 connectors coming from the native Intel chipset. Use these and it will work. On some motherboards the ASMedia serves only as hub to increase the number of ports. That works as well.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Madiface XT buffer performance problems

Thanks for the info Matthais.  I have tested all USB ports besides USB2.  running at 44.1 I can only get workable sample rates from 256 to 2048.  at 96 I can only do 4096 to 512.

while playing back a single video from youtube if I switch (below 256@44.1) or (below 512@96) the video and audio freezes and unfreezes every second.  while recording the audio drops out. 

all my motherboard drivers are correct and up to date.....and so is my bios.  Not to mention I am getting the same results on 3 different computers. 

Also....why is it possible to achieve 32-4096 on my UFX at 44.1  although the Madiface XT can only do 256-2048? 

is there a way to increase the performance.  In a mixing scenario with a 60+ track count it is very difficult for the computer to operate at such a low buffer size.  At this point I can't even open projects that were mix using the UFX due to the poor USB performance. 

I'm guessing this has something to do the Madiface XT track count?  Are there other ways to limit the bandwidth to get similar results to the UFX. 

I appreciate your assistance. 

Thank you!

Re: Madiface XT buffer performance problems

oh...I forgot.  If I use the Madiface through the USB 3.1 ports it is completely unusable.

sorry for the trouble.  But This is something I need to remedy asap.  I have already invested hours upon hours on my own time trying to fix this problem with out any success.  I'm not the type of person to run to tech support without exhausting all of my options first.

Re: Madiface XT buffer performance problems

Not sure about this configuration, but perhaps the 3.1 will indeed be troubled by the ASMedia chipset. There is nothing we could change in the driver to simply "add compatibility", sorry. This i more a matter of performance, making certain chips incompatible with full performance, so to speak.

Find a PCIe card with the Fresco chip or consider PCI-Ex connection....


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: Madiface XT buffer performance problems

Can you please answer some of my questions regarding the performance differences between the UFX and madiface xt....why is the performance so poor using the same system? In Buying a flagship madi system i would expect the performance to be the same or better.  Am I wrong in making this assumption.  I understand that you guys have to answer a ton of stupid questions from clients who dont even take the time to read the manual.  Which i'm sure is frustrating.  I love this madi system and i really hope i dont have to move on to something else due to poor performance issues.  Can you please answer some of my previous questions before reccomending I buy another Unit.  Again....sorry for the hassle. 

Thank you.

Re: Madiface XT buffer performance problems

Neither device has got any inherent "performance" when it comes to your DAW projects and VST instruments etc. The Madiface XT is not meant to provide better "performance" as such, although on a good system, overall performance should be similar. But as it appears, this system is somehow not as good as it might be for some reason. No similar performance issues are known in connection with the XT otherwise. If this PC can not provide uninterrupted audio at lower buffer settings with the XT, then this will need to be fixed on the side of the PC, it is not the audio interface as such that "can do" a certain latency.

This might help identifying possible causes: https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=1704
Also, try reducing the number of WDM devices to 1 or 2.


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

12 (edited by fletcherMunchkin 2015-07-10 14:13:02)

Re: Madiface XT buffer performance problems

I understand what you mean.  Seeing i have tested this on 3 different computers....can you confirm that you guys are getting similar results with the UFX and Madiface XT on your end?  And if so can you please give me the specs of the computer you guys are testing this performance?  I have a degree in computer science and i'd like to optimize my computer hardware for optimal results.   Also, on your test machine what buffer numbers are you getting for 44.1 and 96?

I need this setup to be able to function at a minimal buffer of 64.
Can you guys acheive those numbers on your end?

I have already optimized my PC for Audio.  as well as reduced  the WDM.  I tried doing all of this before I even posted here in order to not waste any ones time.  i will run the tests on the link and see how it goes.

Thank you,

13

Re: Madiface XT buffer performance problems

I can use 64 samples on any of my computers, that is really nothing special - normally, so there is something seriously going wrong. 3 different computers would point to the XT being broken, but these 3 computers are maintained by you and therefore might all have the same problem. What you overlooked:

- If you set the input to Redundancy and the output to Mirror (in the Settings dialog) the channel count is reduced to 64.

- If you set the unit to USB 2 mode you could even compare it to your native USB 2 port performance with the UFX.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

14 (edited by fletcherMunchkin 2015-07-11 17:17:31)

Re: Madiface XT buffer performance problems

Thank you for the info mattias!  I have it operating at 64 samples now after some trial and error. 
2 last final questions and i will stop bugging you.

My system works at 64 samples.  But in or order for that to happen I need to close my project, change the buffer size and reload my DAW.  If i start a session @ 2048 i can switch the buffer size all the way down to 256 with out having to close the session.  If i change below 128 the audio become all distored and weird.  If i close the session....change the buffer to 64 and reopen....it works no problem.  It is not due to the system load.  I have to do this same process even just playing an mp3 or a youtube video.
Is this normal??
Secondly,  i can only acheive a maximum buffer size of 2048 @ 44.1 and 48.  Is that normal?  The UFX does 2x that at that sample rate.  Is that normal?

Thanks again

Ps:  i am using redundancy mode

15 (edited by Potscrubber 2015-07-15 22:38:31)

Re: Madiface XT buffer performance problems

Most of this has already been said but I'll sumarise it for you as it exactly tallies with my own experience for using the XT at lowest buffers.

Major:
- Use External PCIE over USB if you want maximum performance.  You can get an External PCIE card for a desktop, or an ExpressCard 34 for last generation laptops.  See this post https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopi … 62#p100162 for links. They are available from pro video suppliers.  A Matrox ExpressCard has worked flawlessly for me recording 32 channels at 96K.
- Set Redundancy and mirror modes in the driver (unless you want to use more than 1 Madi I/O)
- Set your DAW to use hardware monitoring if that suits your workflow.
- Setting my recording DAW (Sequoia) installation to use only a single core also brought less LAB's (lost asio buffers) at lower recording latencies.

Minor:
- Set MMCSS in the driver (actually that wasn't so minor in my case)
- Set low or no WDM devices in the driver

Simon

Madiface XT, Madiface, 3x Micstasy, ADI8QS
Sequoia 17, W10 x64
https://bsound.co.nz/tools-nix

16

Re: Madiface XT buffer performance problems

Changing the buffer size does indeed cause a short-time high system load, and with critical computers and/or heavier projects that will cause trouble. ASIO has to be stopped and started while the DAW tries to continue to work - which can cause failing synchronization of USB after its restart, as that one happens in a problematic moment.

And Postscrubber is right - PCIe will get you rid of all this.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Madiface XT buffer performance problems

Thank you both for your input. 

can you please answer my last question?  What is the maximum buffer size the Madiface XT can operate @ 44.1 & 48?

18

Re: Madiface XT buffer performance problems

2048. As mentioned in the manual the XT uses a different transfer method than most other RME interfaces (isochronous streaming). In this method higher buffer sizes do not bring any further advantage. If it fails below 512 something is already wrong.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Madiface XT buffer performance problems

I see.  Ok, thank you for you help matthias.

Re: Madiface XT buffer performance problems

Updated my post #15

Madiface XT, Madiface, 3x Micstasy, ADI8QS
Sequoia 17, W10 x64
https://bsound.co.nz/tools-nix