• From: NYC
  • Registered: 2016-09-22
  • Posts: 21

Topic: New need Help and Hi!

Hi All, i am new here and also new to RME and the more complex Sound Cards.
I always used just straight FW Boxes and that was it, just some MOTUs with
FW cards but nothing really complex like HDSP and MADI stuff.

1. My needs are 8 to 10 Analog Ins for External Synthesizers, nothing crazy,
mostly Analog Synthesizers and Modulars, maybe one Microphone but nothing special.
Analog Outs we do not have much choices, 8 can do it, even less its ok. Maybe a TOSLink too.

2. I am on PC Win7/10 x64, i am using Cubase 8.5 Pro, Studio One 3 and Reason 9 plus
tons of other Software such as NI Komplete, u-He, total EWQL e tc.

3. Currently i have a TC Impact Twin which also has MIDI, i also use M-AUDIO MIDI Sport Uno
and i also use Novation SL61 MK2 and ZERO SL MK2. Might be adding a Preamp or Two.

4. My current Setup is:
Case: Fractal Design Define R5 Black Window Edition (with 3 Fans)
MOBO: ASUS SaberTooth X99 USB 3.1
GFX: ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC Edition 2GB
CPU: Intel I7 5820K
RAM: 4x8 GB G.SKILL Ripjaws 4 Series, PC4 21300
Cooler: Noctua NH-U14S (1Fan)
PSU: EVGA SuperNova G2 650
Storage:
SAMSUNG 850 PRO 2.5" 256GB SATA III 3-D
SAMSUNG 850 PRO 2.5" 256GB SATA III 3-D
SAMSUNG 850 EVO 2.5" 1TB SATA III 3-D
WD BLACK SERIES 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s
CD/DVD/BD: LG Black 16X
Plus a FW Card for the TC Impact Twin but that can be remove, i will not use it after i buy another.

I also have a problem with my computer and IO Cards, In Cubase and in Reason, i did not test Studio
One, there is no Latency if Audio is going straight in but there is Latency if you first record in
MIDI and then play that back. Meaning, on PlayBack MIDI is always too early. With many tests and with
Steinberg we established it is problems with the MIDI, noone knows why. Until i buy a new SoundCard
i will not know why, then i will also buy a bigger MIDI Interface and see what is going on...just mentioned that.

My Questions are:
1. I do not know anything about Cards such as the HDSP and MADI plus the expander or how that works at all.
I need to know if that is a better option and where do i start with it, i have some links here:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/OctaMic2
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HDSPe9632
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HDSP9652
My understanding is that you use the PCI/e Card on the computer and then you connect one of these expanders
to get the IOs ala MOTU PCI424 if i remember back in time...

2. My second option is to get one of the straight USB/FW RME Boxes but what is the advantage of having one
of the above mentioned PCIe and Expanders? Expandability in future is not a problem, more about quality and Latency.
If i go this route then what...does USB 3 have any advantage over USB 2 or FW e tc...its a big argument.
Something with all 3, USB 2 and 3 and FW would be good too, i don't know if my MotherBoard can handle Thunderbolt
to go that Route, to add a TB card later but here is another link:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/compare … refaceUCX)

Sorry for the long post, i tried to give more information, i hope someone helps me or points me somewhere to start.

Thanks
Nedim

I got enough.

BasariStudios's Website

2 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2016-11-16 19:07:42)

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
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  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 13,173

Re: New need Help and Hi!

What is your budget ?

UFX+ would be a nice solution for you.

If you do not require the 4 Mic inputs you will have 8+4 analog INs and 8 analog outs.

For more flexibility I would advise you to get additionally one (or more) XTC connected via MADI.

By this you get 8 additional MIC inputs.
4 of them (1-4) can be used as additional line INs (servo symmetric) and the support PAD
4 of them (5-8) can be used as instrument inputs
It also offers 2 Phones outputs and 4 AES outs
and can do format conversion jobs.

XTC can be remote controlled by TM FX of the UFX+ (XTC itself doesnt support TotalMix)
The remote control can be achieved by MIDI over MADI, so you do not require additional MIDI cables.

With MADI (Multimode fiber) you can connect the devices in a ring structure up to 2km.

So you could by MADI i.e. have the UFX+ in the Control Room, then i.e. a 40m fiber cable goes to the 1st recording room, then another cable of 50m goes to the second recording room with 2 XTC and from there back to the UFX+.

You can easily connect up to 8 XTC in ring structure to the UFX+ ... or all on one place.

Very flexible.

And when you remote control the XTCs via Totalmix of the UFX+ via MIDI over MADI, then you can save all the gain settings, PAD, etc in Totalmix to the so called snapshots and workspaces for later quick restore of a certain recording situation from yesterday or 2 day ago .. which speeds up the work progress / workkflow.

This I think would be a good investment and on top you have DuRec which you can run in parallel to your DAW to record all tracks in parallel, so shall your PC have an issue, then you still have the recording on an USB stick in safe harbor on your UFX+ ...

And .. via MADI this solution is very expandable to your current and future demands, so in total, no wasted money, you have by this money / invest protection.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • From: NYC
  • Registered: 2016-09-22
  • Posts: 21

Re: New need Help and Hi!

Hi Ramses, thanks. Budget can be around 2000$ but its more complicated,
i can stretch a little higher then that or squeeze a little lower then that,
depending on what i will get for the money...1800-2200? Maybe little more.

Thanks

I got enough.

BasariStudios's Website

4 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2016-11-16 19:08:38)

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
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  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 13,173

Re: New need Help and Hi!

See here my setup:

http://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/inde … Cber-MADI/

http://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/inde … 8-RME-UFX/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

5 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2016-11-16 19:13:32)

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 13,173

Re: New need Help and Hi!

Then I would stretch a bit more, get UFX+, live with the wonderful amount of channels and possibilities.

And shall you require more, then good news kicks in, you can expand up to 8 XTC or whatever you want.

This is a basement where you can base on for a long time.

Midi ports of course are also very good with RME ...

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

6 Reply by BasariStudios (edited by BasariStudios 2016-11-16 20:29:02)

  • From: NYC
  • Registered: 2016-09-22
  • Posts: 21

Re: New need Help and Hi!

Ramses, thank You,
one question though...would i be then missing on some advantages over the
MADI HDSP stuff the RME or other Companies have? What i understand is
that this unit is 12 Analog IN and 8 Analog Out of the box. USB 3.0 and TB.
Its a lot of money and, i was even thinking about the UCX or even UFX and 802.

I got enough.

BasariStudios's Website

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 13,173

Re: New need Help and Hi!

UFX+  is a MADI solution based on USB3 and Thunderbolt.
It offers you some cool features.
Mobility, Flexibility, Durec with timestamps, FX chip, optimized analog circuits, etc etc.

If you take a HDSP MADI PCIe card, then you can get one with and without FX chip.
But .. its a pure digital card per MADI with midi ports.

Then you need to buy MADI devices to get the required amount of channels in and out.
With that you might end up more expensive at the end and you need to have a Desktop with PCIe slot.

With this setup you can start and perhaps possibly already live for a long time without other expenses.
Ok, if you need the 4 Mic preamps, then you have only 8 analog ins.
Other analog ins or preamps you can integrate using the ADAT channels.
Although ADAT has always the problem with higher sample rates,
out of 8 channels @48 you can end up with only 4 or 2 @192.
https://www.thomann.de/gb/search_dir.ht … RME+UFX%2B                                €2585

With this setup you can expand already wonderful with an XTC
https://www.thomann.de/gb/search_dir.ht … RME+UFX%2B                                €2585
https://www.thomann.de/gb/rme_octamic_x … C_318924_0 €1866
The flexibility I described to you already, easily expandable up to 8 XTC !
or UFX+ and 2 x XTC with full capability for samplerates up to 192 kHz
or UFX+ and 4 x XTC with full capability for samplerates up to 96 lHz

With the HDSP card it looks like this:
https://www.thomann.de/gb/rme_hdspe_mad … arch_prv_6                  €1333
Now you need at least an XTC for getting 8 Micro preamps or 4 servosymmetric INs  €1866
XTC has only the 2 phones outputs as analog outs, so you need ad/da converter
https://www.thomann.de/gb/rme_adi_8_qsm … arch_prv_8                        €2966

Surely also a nice setup, but .. I think you get the most bang for the buck at this moment,
if your budhet has certain limits, when taking UFX+ maybe plus ARC USB.
And then eventually to expand I/Os per ADAT or MADI.
Very good choice is an XTC, because this device you can fully integrate into TM FX of the UFX+
and remote control via MIDI over MADI and store all digital gain settings etc in your TM snapshots and workplaces.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • From: NYC
  • Registered: 2016-09-22
  • Posts: 21

Re: New need Help and Hi!

Dear Ramses, thank you and thank you also for your time taking to answer.
I spent all night researching and reading on 4 of the RME units, UFX+, UFX, 802 and UCX.
I do not need the USB Recording Option, the FX DSP Option and also i do not need the
expandability Option either. I will never need more then 8-12 Inputs nor do i need ever
any digital Inputs at all. Leaving aside the UFX+ for a moment only, the UFX and the 802,
what are their main differences in Performance, Stability and Latency only, leave the Sound
Quality aside for a moment. Only the Stability and speed, USB/FW, on a Windos 7 and 10.
The UCX is only 200$ less in USA then the UFX so there is no reason to get the UCX for 200$
less, not a big save. If i left the UFX+ out of the equation i lean towards the UFX more then the
802, mostly based on its MIDI I/Os, this way i do not have my interface connected and have
my computer confused. Will there be any advantage or disadvantage using its MIDI Ports over
using a separate interface for MIDI? I read a lot on the internet...is the UFX really the best
in this category and price range even over the 802?

Thank you very much.

I got enough.

BasariStudios's Website