• Registered: 2011-04-26
  • Posts: 37

Topic: Thunderbolt or USB3 for a Fireface UFX+ ?

The Fireface UFX+ might be my next audio interface. So I am wondering how best to connect it to my Windows 10 PC. I have an Asus Z97-A board that offers optional Thunderbolt connectivity. Will it be worth buying the TB expansion card or can I just as well stick with USB3?

I've read in the UFX+ manual the sections about USB3 and TB. From what I understand, TB would be the way to go if I want the best possible performance in terms of latency and stability.

Can anyone confirm that? And does anyone happen to have experience with Asus TB cards?

2 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2017-01-03 19:04:16)

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 13,179

Re: Thunderbolt or USB3 for a Fireface UFX+ ?

With USB3 its already nice, but Thunderbolt you can regard as an expansion of your PCIe bus.

Compare the numbers from my interfaces ... have no thunderbolt though ....

The whole article: http://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/inde … caf12bb0d0

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96192996/tonstudio-forum.de/blog/RME%20UFX%2B/UFX%2B_UFX_RayDAT-Latencies.xlsx.jpg

Information about UFX+ / XTC via MADI: http://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/inde … Cber-MADI/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2010-07-17
  • Posts: 62

Re: Thunderbolt or USB3 for a Fireface UFX+ ?

ditto what Ramses says,
Yes I can confirm.
I just got the UFX+ and I'm running it on TB and USB3.
I'm still learning as the UFX+ does way more than the FF800 I've been used to.
My unscientific analysis:

TB will give better performance as it is bus-direct, so for DAWs this is the way to go if you intend to max things out.
I use an Asus gaming computer with TB. it works fine. It's really all about the chips used so check out other UFX+ treads for that info.

That being said USB 3 is fine for most applications, including tracking and the majority of DAW stuff, Totalmix. Durec, etc
I'm using a maxed out surface book on Win 10 and it works great for that.

SamProX23 Suite-RME UFX+,FF800;X-Touch,21" Acer Touch,ASUS ROG G750JH-DB71-Win8,MSSurfbook-Win10
  • Gary
  • AD/DA expert
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2011-08-05
  • Posts: 61

Re: Thunderbolt or USB3 for a Fireface UFX+ ?

Strictly from a numbers and capability standpoint, TB will give you significantly more throughput.  What it really boils down to, is two questions:

1.  Is hardware/software compatible and tweaked out properly to take advantage of that additional throughput?
2.  Will *you* be able take advantage of that additional throughput, or is USB3 already plenty for what you're doing?

That being said, if you have both TB and USB3 capability, I would go TB.  I say that for three reasons:

1.  You might as well use the fastest connection the UFX+ has available, whether you need it or not.
2.  If using USB, you really want to make sure the UFX+ is isolated on it's own USB Bus.  One less thing to worry about with TB....Unless you're using a TB hub and have other things connected in addition to the UFX+.
3.  Far more things use USB connections that TB connections.  Using TB where you can, frees up a USB connection for other things.

  • Registered: 2012-04-15
  • Posts: 90

Re: Thunderbolt or USB3 for a Fireface UFX+ ?

This is very interesting.  I'm currently using a UFX, planning to upgrade to UFX+ but need to add TB.

Is the UFX+ TB2 or TB3?

Anybody using the UFX+ on Asus Sabertooth X99 with the ThunderboltEX card?

6 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2017-01-04 13:25:21)

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 13,179

Re: Thunderbolt or USB3 for a Fireface UFX+ ?

> Is the UFX+ TB2 or TB3?

It doesn't matter, its compatible to all, see handbook.

I agree with Gary to use TB if its available on your board.

Although I have a nice server board with Intel C612 chipset, I noticed that USB devices like bluetooth adapter can impact stability of other USB connections. Dunno why. I found finally a combination of slots to use, but I think you have more silence in this regards when going TB which is like PCIe.

See this thread: https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=24757

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2011-04-26
  • Posts: 37

Re: Thunderbolt or USB3 for a Fireface UFX+ ?

Gary, you made some good points there. In my case, it's not that I need the TB bandwidth. Even USB2 is good enough for me in terms of throughput. (I am currently using a FF802.)

What I am after is the lowest possible latency, the highest stability and the lowest impact on processing power.

With the Fireface 802 (which I haven't had for long) I am noticing a higher system load in Cubase 8 than with the Multiface 2 that I had before (i.e. I can run less tracks at the same latency setting). I am guessing this is in part because it's USB instead of PCIe. So I would be hoping to be able to use the same low latency settings with the UFX+ via TB as with the Multiface 2.

The Asus TB card that I would have to buy for my mainboard is around 90 EUR. I guess I am going to make this small investment so that I can try out TB once I'll get the UFX+.

  • vinark
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2009-06-05
  • Posts: 2,776

Re: Thunderbolt or USB3 for a Fireface UFX+ ?

hammerton wrote:

and the lowest impact on processing power.

For sure that is with TB. USB always uses some CPU (AFAIK). If it is a meaninfull difference in practice is a different question and can only be answered by rigorous testing.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
  • Gary
  • AD/DA expert
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2011-08-05
  • Posts: 61

Re: Thunderbolt or USB3 for a Fireface UFX+ ?

> Is the UFX+ TB2 or TB3?

My motherboard has TB2 .  I'm fairly certain TB1 and TB2 share the same type of connector, but TB3 is, I think, a different physical connector.  I'm not 100% sure on that though.  Assuming the TB3 is a different connector, the connection on the UFX+ is TB1/TB2.  Just FYI...My motherboard is a Gigabyte GA-Z97X-UD7 TH, and has TB onboard.  This machine was built around March of 2015, so it's not old, but it's not new.

>What I am after is the lowest possible latency, the highest stability and the lowest impact on processing power.

TB should give you lower transfer latency between machine and interface, but again, I go back to making sure your machine is tweaked to take advantage of that.  Also, make sure if you're experiencing latency issues, that you know for sure where the bottleneck is so you can properly address it.  A faster connection to your interface won't do you much good if the bottleneck is within the machine itself.

10 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2017-01-04 15:12:14)

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 13,179

Re: Thunderbolt or USB3 for a Fireface UFX+ ?

If you look at my figures then you will notice, that you can't expect big jumps in terms of latency anymore.
RME USB and Firewire adapters are already much optimized.

USB3 is already better than a RayDAT with an UFX in front as preamp.

I compared CPU load between UFX (USB2) and RayDAT (PCIe) on the same Cubase 8 Pro project.
A few VSTs (superior drummer, trillian, B4) and a few audio tracks and VSTs for mixing and mastering.

You do not see any impact in terms of CPU load between the two.

And yes true TB 1/2 would save you an adapter cable which I think is not unimportant if the cable shall be longer.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Gary
  • AD/DA expert
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2011-08-05
  • Posts: 61

Re: Thunderbolt or USB3 for a Fireface UFX+ ?

I think probably the most significant impact from using TB, would be if you were monitoring through your DAW as opposed to through the interface, particularly if you're using plugins while tracking and wanting the plugins in the monitor mix.  Of course, it certainly can't hurt on high track count projects and incorporating outboard gear during mixdown either.....

12 Reply by clusterchord (edited by clusterchord 2019-03-13 14:34:20)

  • From: Croatia, Zagreb
  • Registered: 2011-02-28
  • Posts: 9

Re: Thunderbolt or USB3 for a Fireface UFX+ ?

hi chaps,   i'd like some advice on what TB3 to TB2 adapter to use for my UFX+..


currently i am driving UFX+ on my old Win10 I7 machine via USB3.  while workable, its worth noting that my acceptable latency figures are worse than my previous setup with UFX running FW.


now i am setting up a new Win10 I9 machine in parallel,  with ASRock Taichi Mobo and got their AIC TB3 card.  and to overcome usb3 cable lenght limitation and possibly decrease the cpu load, i would like to connect the UFX+ directly via TB.   
UFX is TB2 mDSP, and ASRock AIC is TB3.

which adapter is proven to be working ?  anything else to be careful off when setting this up?   never used TB before..


i can get the Apple one locally: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207266,  but reading posts here and other places i am doubtful if it will work.


thanks

www.babic.com - music for theatre, film and television

clusterchord's Website