1 Topic by althemusicwizard (edited by althemusicwizard 2017-01-20 11:41:03)

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Topic: Could TotalMix be used in a live theatre?

I bought a Fireface UFX about a year ago to transfer multitrack recordings from analogue tape into PC. In conjunction with 2 Behringer ADA8200 it gives me a combination of 20 XLR pre-amps and 8 line inputs or 28 line inputs. Along with returning a possible 30 individual streams from my DAW (REASON 8) and being able to output to 18 XLR outputs and 10 jack outputs, this is more than a lot of digital mixers.

I'm working on staging a musical that I've written. We have 16 Sennheiser Radio Mics which could feed into line inputs. As of yet I don't know whether there will be resources for a live band. If so, then if V-drums are used, then we have another 10 inputs available for mics / lines for the band before thinking of an external mixer. It seems it could be done. If the show was run from backing tracks, then these could just be played back either as stems or a complete stereo mix.

What concerns me most, is the limitation of 8 snapshots for SCENE recalls. It might be possible given that the UFX also has 4 MUTE GROUPS. GROUPS themselves could be used as VCAs on a traditional FOH mixing console (or as DCAs on current digital mixers).

I wondered if anyone has done just this and how successful was it.

I work from touchscreens in the studio, but live it would be better to work from a tactile surface. Something that could advance to NEXT SCENE (Snapshot) would be great.

Any comments or advice gratefully received.

Thanks,
Al

2 Reply by MC

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Re: Could TotalMix be used in a live theatre?

You can easily load a new workspace with the next 8 snapshots via the W hotkey - quicker and easier than loading a new workspace file.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
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Re: Could TotalMix be used in a live theatre?

Hi MC,

Thanks for the response. I can't believe I've had the unit a year without really investigating what it can do. I've spent today going through it and as you say, I can order a workspace with SCENE 1 , SCENE 2,....SCENE 8 , then save it as WORKSPACE 1-8, and carry on upwards. The SCENE shifting is quick and quiet, while the WORKSPACE change loads in about 0.5secs. This will work well in the context I envisage. Thanks, Al

4 Reply by MC

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Re: Could TotalMix be used in a live theatre?

Be sure to save the Workspaces that you store as Quick Workspace also as correctly named files. This saves you the hassle to find the files behind the QW system if you need them as backup or want to transfer those to another machine.

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Matthias Carstens
RME

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Re: Could TotalMix be used in a live theatre?

I will do Matthias. Are there any customisations you can do to the look of TotalMix? I am thinking specifically of colouring the surface of channels, or just the faders? This would help with using groups. I personally find the 'grey' colour tiring on the eyes, but that just might be me?. Can the physical output faders be named (like the software ones can)? Can the program be opened without the Fireface being turned on as I haven't been able to do that?

Thanks,
Al

6 Reply by MC

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Re: Could TotalMix be used in a live theatre?

Currently there are no customizations apart from the Channel Layout feature (hide specific channels, show specific submix routings only etc), which might still be helpful in your scenes. Also setting TM FX to 'dark' will remove the grey tone.

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Matthias Carstens
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7 Reply by althemusicwizard (edited by althemusicwizard 2017-01-22 15:49:18)

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Re: Could TotalMix be used in a live theatre?

With a few tweaks this could be the only mixing platform I need, both for studio and live.

I don't know if you're aware of the Behringer X32 apps and software for their digital mixer?

Behringer themselves produce X32-Edit which has just had a serious re-vamp on version 3.1 to include 'USER' channels (where a bank of faders can be laid out to users specifics). They also do an i-Pad app but an independent programmer released an android app called 'Mixing Station' (probably about 6 months after the release of the X32 in 2012/2013). His app has been very successful and could do things the i-Pad app couldn't.

Whether the Behringer team have now caught up I'm not sure, but does a similar thing exist for Total Mix? As I said before, I can't believe I have had the unit in the studio rack for over 12 months and all it did was provide A-D conversion from the tape machines and playback from the computer.

With DuRec as well, this unit provides more out of the box than my X32 rigs did (ok.....that might be an over-statement in terms of mixing conventions....matrix busses etc, range of FX), but for the bread and butter (day-today standards) operations , the UFX and Total Mix give me compression, EQ, busses, physical inputs and outputs, control room facilities for studio use and a stand-a-lone use if required.

More importantly as well........its RME, which I know from my days with the Hammerfall cards means rock-solid clocking, no fuss operation.
It would be great if Total Mix was developed to enhance what is already a great product.
Thanks,
Al

8 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2017-01-22 13:18:41)

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Re: Could TotalMix be used in a live theatre?

Is your return key broken ? wink This very long sentence is extremely uncomfortably to read wink

I personally would only use a HW mixer as life mixer. In live situations you need IMHO to be able to react very quickly if something goes very wrong (feedback loop and what not).

You are much quicker to change something on real buttons and faders.

And what if your Windows or Apple PC becomes stuck in such a situation ? Then all might get into a nearly uncontrollable state.

You would loose precious time to react "in time", if there should be a big feedback loop that has the potential to blow up everybodies ears.

Maybe for a very small event this would be ok, when the overall volume is relatively low.

BTW .. what hinders you currently to use TM FX as life mixer ? Whats missing ?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
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Re: Could TotalMix be used in a live theatre?

Sorry ramses.....I've just edited it....that looks better, no?

If English is not your first language, then I can imagine my posting might have looked daunting. And my hat goes off to anybody who can communicate on a forum in a second language.

Being English has many disadvantages in this area.

I too thought for a long time that I could not do live work without a hardware solution (a real mixer). But after using the Behringer X32 RACK for a few shows, with a wired ethernet cable to a touchscreen PC (not just wi-fi) then the biggest problem was not triggering the touchscreen unintentionally.

Simple SCENE recalls worked fine and I can see myself moving more towards the ITB (in the box - computer) solution both for live and studio. As long as the engineer knows the show and the foibles of the equipment they are using,  then I think it is possible to run a show from TM.

10 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2017-01-22 16:53:55)

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Re: Could TotalMix be used in a live theatre?

> If English is not your first language, then I can imagine my posting might have looked daunting.

No its not the language wink If somethig has no visible structure by grouping stuff that belongs together into a paragraph, then its simply harder to read. We have punctuation for similar reasons.

In regards to your topic: I see your points. Its surely also a matter of environment and personal requirements / taste.

But still I would like to know from you, where you see limitations to use TM now for live mixing on i.e. laptop or tablet..
Maybe something could be implemented if it really would make sense.
On the other hand one should be careful not to put too much stuff into TM not to make it too complex or even buggy.
At the moment its more or lest "just right" what most people want to do with it.

I see eventually other options for you .. Since a couple of months RME added a new operational mode for TM: "DAW Mode - straight playback routing, no input mix"

It has been implemented because some people do not want to use TM and mix everything inside their DAW.

AFAIR there are 3rd party solutions for live mixing available. Maybe you can get such an application and use TM only in this new DAW mode and do everything with the Live Mixing Application.

To put some examples, where I don't know what is really "state of the art" in this area:
http://www.waves.com/mixers-racks/emoti … live-mixer
http://ampmix.net/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
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Re: Could TotalMix be used in a live theatre?

I think I need to play and explore TM more before I can make more constructive criticisms. The most immediate for me would be being able to customise the layout, make it friendlier on the eye with colour, sizing and labelling.
Al

12 Reply by MC

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Re: Could TotalMix be used in a live theatre?

Note: All I/Os can have user defined names.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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Re: Could TotalMix be used in a live theatre?

Thanks Matthias

  • From: Melbourne, Australia
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Re: Could TotalMix be used in a live theatre?

Let me add to this - but I am relating experiences for live mixing but in music performance.  And I have some specific remarks about using an iPad as the host for TotalmixFX so I will do this in a separate thread.

De gustibus - et sonus - non est disputandum
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Re: Could TotalMix be used in a live theatre?

Its this thread: https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=24965

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
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Re: Could TotalMix be used in a live theatre?

Thanks guys,

Just read all that, very helpful. At the moment I wouldn't dare to mix a show just from the touch of my finger....it's too hit and miss. It's the same with wi-fi (I'm thinking of mixers like the Behringer X32), I have to have a fixed ethernet connection. I have though mixed from a fixed connection, a touchscreen PC with a keyboard and mouse and with the use of SCENE recall, it's always gone ok.

Al

  • Registered: 2019-05-26
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Re: Could TotalMix be used in a live theatre?

althemusicwizard wrote:

Thanks guys,

Just read all that, very helpful. At the moment I wouldn't dare to mix a show just from the touch of my finger....it's too hit and miss. It's the same with wi-fi (I'm thinking of mixers like the Behringer X32), I have to have a fixed ethernet connection. I have though mixed from a fixed connection, a touchscreen PC with a keyboard and mouse and with the use of SCENE recall, it's always gone ok.

Al


How's it going so far using the touchscreen?