I already did this - I turned the volume setting of my monitors to the minimum, and can't reduce it any further. As said, even then I can only use them at TotalMixFX's -10dBV setting with the mixing matrix dimming another -15dB or so.

(Monitors: http://studio.ksdigital.de/de/produkte/ … d-606.html ). But my monitors are not special in this regard, I have stumbled about other active ones which have very high sensitivity and can't be dimmed further. Manufacturers probably want to ensure that you can also use them with -10dBV interfaces.

Particularly bad in this regard is, that my monitors, apart from the peak limiter, don't have a particular LFE protection for the bass driver - the manufacturer states that this is not necessary as apart from the EXTREME sound pressure level, typically distortion will be heard before they are clipping, so naturally you won't overdrive them - which is true for a normal mixing desk, where you typcially fade up the master volume - but not for a software solution where you can accidentally and instantly clear all safety nets (pads/reference level) and thereby push the levels by 30dB(!) or more, sending connected gear to instant clipping. And I'm not even speaking of the possibility that someone uses outboard equipment with -10dBV reference level which will be overloaded in any case! (e.g. on the Speaker B output, I connected a typical home user's 2.1 active speaker system instead of an Auratone).

My only solution would be to buy a pre-amp; apart from the unnecessary costs, this will degrade the signal. It should be possible to hook up the Fireface 802 directly to all kinds of gear without constantly worrying about overloads?

Another - probably not that elegant - solution would be for TotalMixFX to provide some output -x dB pad configuration setting for the master and speaker B outputs that is never ever touched or reset through presets, hotkeys, the main GUI, software update procedures, or something else. Of course, that would render that basic output reference level setting redundant. But the latter is not safe and reliable at the moment.

Thanks for getting back to me. Both are not a good solution for a customer buying a € 1.300 audio interface, because

a) the nearfields manufacturer won't be able to fix my problem and can argue that the high sensitivity has it's applications (which is correct). Most probably, they will react like you, tell me it's not their problem and suggest to complain to the audio interface manufacturer or get some pad resistors. And as you say, that this topic arises from time to time in the forum, underlines this is not an "exotic" error from part of manufacturers, many of them do this. No solution for me here. And there could also be studio monitors without any volume control (maybe just a -10dB pad setting) at all.

b) while technically feasible I'm not sure if it is a good idea to buy pad resistors for every output - what attenuation should I choose? My preferred reference level plus some headroom? Will I find something suitable without soldering around myself?

I consider it as big as a wrongdoing not to build usable volume controls into active monitors. But sensitive monitors are only one part of the problem. Your software is wrong in this regard too. As described, it is some kind of "minefield" that provides too many ways to - accidently or due to bugs - reset the output reference level to +4dBu. And regardless of the volume control of external gear, it should never happen to drive anything that is e.g. spec'd for -10dBV with +4dBu level! So why are you implying this default value is a good idea?

I don't know exactly why you do not just ship the software with defaults at -10dBV reference level. This would hot hurt anyone and would be compatible with all kinds of gear from the beginning. The pro can deliberately set it to the +4dBu level, which is fine. If the software loses it's settings, as it does on my system seldomly, the worst thing that would happen is that everything is about 12 dB lower, and not 12 dB too loud.

Additionally, you could consider e.g. setting all default snapshots or the snapshots numbered 2 to 8 to mix gains at -20dB as you do with the headphones output faders. I'm sure no-one would find this inconvenient in any case, because typically a user will set everything up (e.g. the reference level) and continue storing his snapshots from there. It's a very bad idea providing default maximum level snapshots that can be selected just by accidently clicking 5 pixels below something. If you think about potential solution for this case, one would be e.g. to provide a "snapshots do not change reference level" configuration option - a good option for people with a fixed installation setup; they wouldn't expect a snapshot to change the reference level anyway; as on many common audio interfaces, the reference level is a global setting.

On my system, the handling of workspaces and the storage of the configuration exhibited several bugs (e.g. the grouping of faders sometimes misbehaves and sets them to wrong levels, configuration is sometimes lost altogether etc.), which has caused 50% of the cases I've overdriven my nearfields. I know from a developers perspective it is not easy to fix such stability issues, but sensible default settings are a no-brainer and no problem to implement at all. So I sadly consider your reply completely unsatisfactory and negligent.

By the way, yesterday I updated TotalMixFX to the latest version and guess what happened: the "prevent double-click fader actions" configuration reset itself to ON despite the rest of my workspace settings seemed to be unchanged - fortunately I was already paranoid enough to check that. I feel like TotalMixFX is already "parenting" me to behave as it intends, not the other way round!

I also read in this forum that you often tell your users they should read the manual when such things happen: why are there no big red warning statements in the manual then that

• such configuration losses happen within upgrades;

• that if someone stores a snapshot with lower levels (and -10dBV reference level), he/she should also make sure to configure the other empty snapshots to prevent damaging level jumps?

• the double-click actions of the output faders are on by default, and can cause severe volume jumps (especially for touchpad users)

(Every appliance has proper warnings in the manual if there are potential risks for health or equipment. Your manual seems not to care about that. It's cynical to refer to the manual when someone has just popped his ears with his midfields.)

I know why there are no warnings in your manual: because they would sound strange - they would point out that they are caused by an indeed somewhat strange and unnecessary design decision from your part that is by no means any better than nearfields manufacturers who do not provide a proper gain control.

As said, I bet it's easy to fix for you in a logical and easy way - no programming, just preset settings. And can solve the problem for a lot of users.

If this is not solved sooner or later, I will do the only thing a customer can do - updating my positive reviews for the interface and software at the online music retailers, mentioning these issues and your problem-solving approach.

Sorry for venting but I'm frustrated.

Apart from the instances of the few (tip of the iceberg?) users complaining about this problem here. And apart from this problem not being a minor nuisance, but hazardous and harmful. And apart from a -10dBV default config that would also fit most users perfectly without anyone complaining. Whatever, point taken.

I can't believe I have to explain/argue that this statement is false. Yes, your interface is a pro audio interface, and pro equipment delivers standard pro reference levels. BUT your interface is advertised to provide numerous output reference levels, particularly -10dBV. I think I don't have to quote your specs/website "Aanaloge(sic!) Ein- und Ausgänge lassen sich individuell auf die seit Jahren bewährten Pegelreferenzen -10 dBV, +4 dBu [...] umschalten." And the main problem is that this configuration can too easily be changed (default snapshots, undo function), and sometimes changes itself (software updates, configuration loss), which should never happen in an installed studio environment.

While your interface remains a pro audio interface, it is advertised and INTENDED to be safely connectable to equipment using the -10dBV reference level. That has nothing to do with "pro" applications - one can also connect consumer level equipment to it, which is typical even for professionals (see my comment about the -10dBV consumer active speakers I use on speaker output B for Auratone-style mix referencing.) If I - legitimately - connect equipment that uses -10dBV, such as my consumer desktop speakers, you suggest I should take the configuration resetting hazard/snapshot changing to +4dBu into account, not use the provided -10dBV software setting and buy some pad resistors here too? Why do you advertise and offer the -10dBV setting in the first place then, when you now say this interface is meant just for "standard pro reference levels"?

So I will look to buy some 20dB pads for my main monitors (as far as I've seen, a non-DIY solution is pretty expensive with around € 35 for a single symmetric connection, maybe you have some recommendations here) and for my -10dBV Speakers B - and potentially all future -10dBV equipment I might connect to the other outputs. Of course, considering this hassle, I will update my reviews of this otherwise excellent interface.

See above, the interface should be safely connectable to -10dBV equipment, as advertised. Without soldering or buying expensive pads per channel. Without worrying that it resets itself to a reference voltage or full blast configuration that may potentially damage the connected equipment.

Anyway, thanks. Concluding this thread, you won't change anything. I will no longer considering upgrading to the UFX.

I will use the suggested "solution" for my main monitors, but this problem also applies to any consumer/-10dBV equipment in general, such as my speakers connected to the B outputs. The reference voltage should be a global setting on the "safe side", same as the 120/240V mains voltage selector on some equipment: it should NEVER EVER change by itself. Or be too easy to inadvertently be switched.

The output reference voltage should be of a "screwdriver"-type, that is, protectable setting in the software. If you reflect a bit about this, no further arguments are necessary.

I particularly chose the 802 since it provides all features necessary to be a fully-fledged monitoring controller. I am not happy needing to connect additional equipment such as a Level Pilot or other volume pot/monitor controller to it.

It depends where your master fader is located at - the difference is not dramatic at comfortably low listening levels, but if you are already at an 80 dB SPL listening level, this is lots of gain power-wise. And if you are already driving your -10dBV gear near the -10dBV reference level, then a ~12dB jump can be harmful.

I agree with you on the errors and bugs thing. But I'm not asking for perfect safety, just an acceptable level of safety. At the moment, due to the combination of bugs/human error potential, particularly with the operation of the snapshots, hotkeys etc., the safety is far from being remotely acceptable, and could be improved greatly without a fundamental re-design. Even if I get my pad resistors into the main speakers chain, I expect I will overdrive my -10dBV speakers on output B at least twice again within this year. And this would be so easy to fix for you. Nobody is hurt by a more safe reference voltage default configuration, to account for bugs and glitches. Particularly, for snapshots 2 to 8. Here is a lot of potential for user error and I safely bet almost everyone using more than 30% of the software's features will sooner or later experience this. In most cases, it's harmless, but in those few cases, there is big and unnecessary damage potential. The right solution of course would be to create a "lock setting" that stays this way. But as you said, errors can happen and this won't be reliable too. So the default config is a fail-safe in this regard.

Basically, that's a good suggestion - I already saved my entire workspace configuration (using Save/Load Workspace) for exactly that purpose. However there are some bugs here too, and my setup is not always restored properly, particularly fader grouping and the grouped faders' levels get messed up - don't know why. Particularly, after a totalmix/device settings mismatch. After yesterdays experience, loading my last backup resulted not in the configuration I remember saving it. Some of it is OK (layout, eqs/fx, channel names, snapshot names), but the most vital thing, grouped fader levels are not.

Additionally, some preferences do not seem to be saved (double-click fader actions...).

Of course, I will now pay more attention to configuring the other snapshots right.

No really, don't get me wrong, I would not even have thought about complaining if the workspace/snapshot configurations were reliable, but the config bugs in combination with the reference level setting and the mix default gains makes this a very annoying problem for me. But maybe it's just my system...

I'm using Windows 10 Professional x64, Fireface 802, latest drivers (1.098) and firmware from December 2016.

I will try to re-create the workspace saving/restoring problems deliberately and file a separate bug report if I find out what configuration in particular triggers this.

I know this situation super well. I also had this very unpleasant moments. I really recommend getting the dedicated analog monitor controller or something rather simple like this: http://www.tcelectronic.com/level-pilot/

I use the small mixer right at my fingertips, have my soundcard output maxed and don't touch / forgot about it.

My level pilot is fine, have it for quit some years now.

+1. Now I see how much I miss master level knob on my 802

I just read it on the ARC USB page. Do I understand it right, buttons don't operate immediately? It just can't be real, is it?

Wow, thank you very much for your answer and especially for being so polite. I asked a normal question. It was definitely not clear to me what it means on that page. Yes, English is not my native and I may have a language barrier. I still don't see on that page the explanation of what is 'ARC 1 s op'. No need to call me a troll. Yes, I was overly excited about RME products...

Thank you.

> It just can't be real, is it?

Meaning: I understand that it just can't be that way that it appeared to me, but I ask for the confirmation. Explanation on the page is very clear for the person that already know this stuff in and out. For a stranger like me it is not. Yes, after reading it several times I was able to understand it more or less.

- LOL, love it!

OK, thank you and I'm sorry for the inconvenience.

Nano patch plus or Palmer Monicon or similar are more than enough.

I don't think it's reasonable to expect an interface that has some convenience monitoring functions, but is not marketed as a specialized monitor controller, to account for every loudspeaker scenario.  Get an attenuator, or buy some professional monitors with incremental level controls, like mine below.  Take responsibility for your own setup.

rip_my_hearing, your solution is a partial, faulty solution. i.e. no solution.  It doesn't account for every situation where users have been blasted due to their poor setup, and it introduces issues of it it's own.  "No sound bro!  what'd I click?!"

Hello!

I'm, happily, using a Nanopatch+ , that I had purchased 5 years ago, but only recently started using it with my DF Usb via a Presonus Digimax FS for AD/DA.

This way, I don't have to worry about the Main Output Fader, anymore. +0dB, it is!!

But, I can relate to this situation. So, I thought of this:

How about adding a "Speaker Protection" checkbox(or radio button) underneath the "Mixes" section, with an "Assign" drop-down menu box next to it.

At the drop-down menu, a list of all the Stereo Outputs of each interface would be visible.
The user can "tick" every stereo Output, that needs to be "protected".
A fixed value of -30 dB(faders get set to -30dB) is applied to those Outputs, for every SubMix.

If no Output is selected, then the "Speaker Protection" Option is disabled.
If one or more Outputs are selected (at the "Assign" menu), then the Option becomes active(but not enabled)
Then, the user can enable it, if he wants to.
When the user disables it, faders return to last known position.

I don't know if this can be implemented and I don't know how it will work with the larger channel counts interfaces(UFX+, Hdsp-e MADI FX),
but this came to my mind, at the moment!!

Hi:
I've been using my RME Fireface UFX for 5-6 years, the last two with the RME ARC Usb. I really love how it works, also totalmix for no latency issues has been really useful.
At the same time, I agree on most of which was said on the first post. I don't really understand what's the point in having so many shortcuts which can get all the faders up to 0dB. Would be great if Total Mix had some kind of reworking so that this wouldn't happen.
Also, sometimes I have to disconnect the ARC usb and connect it again because it suddenly doesn't respond, and this sometimes also leads to that it responds weirdly and turns the faders up

Hello,
I was looking for information on the net about how to limit the volume on the Babyface Pro FS and unfortunately only came across this discussion, which is very robust in tone.

I only skimmed the discussion because I'm not so interested in the technical details.
I think I'm more of a consumer than a professional, maybe I shouldn't have bought the Babyface in the first place because it's rather difficult to use. But now it's here and I'm basically very happy with it, but I've had my ears filled with far too loud music more than once because I accidentally pressed the wrong button in TotalMix. And surely that's not what software in the year 2023 really wants?

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

The BF Pro FS has a switch on the bottom to attenuate the output signal by 15 dB, especially added for over-sensitive monitors. No more KABOOM...

I would like to just make a quick suggestion,  I too have accidentally clicked to an incorrect snapshot and blasted monitors at me.  Maybe not necessarily harmful to my system, but not very pleasant,  I also had the inclination to wonder why this would be the case. 
Would it not be fairly simple to have a default fader level that can be assigned in the options menu.  So that if users are encountering this issue they can just set that to whatever level is desired. 

I am a software product manager, and I do understand that there are always a ton of issues in the backlog, but also the amount of time that has been spent here bickering with paying customers,  you could have thought about a reasonable solution, and let us know that it will get prioritized with everything else (whatever that timeframe ends up being).  I understand that the issue may not necessarily be something that RME MUST solve.  But if it has come up a few times (and if its come up a few times, there are tons more people whom have had the issue), then it would be something that shows that RME cares about customer concerns and will look to help where they can.

Because there is a heavy level mismatch in your hardware setup that needs to be fixed. Lower default faders is not the solution. More info here:

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=25399

But "quite loud" is still not as loud as the maximum level.

Furthermore, there might be a possibility, that you can access the switch of switchable attenuators.
I would try to switch the attenuation if it is feasible for you and doesn't require you to change too often to that vol level.
https://www.thomann.de/de/jts_ma_123.htm

The better and more comfortably solution is to use a monitor controller:
https://www.thomann.de/de/mackie_big_knob_passive.htm

Or alternatively, as I mentioned already, an ADI-2 DAC or Pro, which offers additional useful features.
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … our-Setup/
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/Ent … ses-EN-DE/
I am doing the same, and I am very satisfied with the functionality and that it also protects my ears.
Also useful, the ram-up of volume a) when plugging phones or b) when switching between monitors and phones by using a remapped front key.