1 Topic by fiddler2007 (edited by fiddler2007 2017-05-02 08:10:33)

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Topic: UFX and Windows 10 64bit and Firewire booting problem

BUMPED and NOT SOLVED:

Topic: UFX and Windows 10 64bit and Firewire booting problem

My UFX (recently sent in for repair since it "died" just within the 24 months warranty) always worked fine with windows 7 64bit, also when i upgraded from within Windows 7 to 10 from within win 7.

Of course using the Legacy 1394 driver with Windows 7. PCIe VIA 1394 compliant Firewire card. I especially bought the UFX for Firewire, as don't like USB for audio: to many issues especially with dongles, external drives and also experienced dropouts with a Yamaha 01v96i digital USB mixing board connected.

However i finally decided to do a fresh install of Windows 10 64bit. Now half of the times booting my PC the UFX is not recognized by the card. Drives me crazy. It's with both the "standard" 1394 compliant drivers AND also the Legacy version i just installed. WHAT CAN BE THE PROBLEM? TotalMix won't start either. Windows Taskmanager shows TotalMix and RME settings have started (2 different ones, probably USB and Firewire). Only a reboot of the PC fixes it mostly. ASUS x99 USB 3.1 mainboard, latest BIOS installed.

BTW, After the free repair service, thanks RME Benelux, i had no information on what was broken,  the UFX's firmware is 1.63, 1.61 makes no difference.

PS connected via USB, and a USB 3.0 port to boot. it works flawlessly ..... I am forced now to use the UFX with USB, but really would like the Firewire 1394 issue fixed.

Thanks F

  • ramses
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Re: UFX and Windows 10 64bit and Firewire booting problem

I would try a quality firewire card with a "known to be working good" TI chipset, listed as component in my blog article:

http://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/inde … mponenten/

https://www.heise.de/preisvergleich/exs … 75938.html

On the other hand RME reaches very good performance and reliability with USB.

In earlier days I also thought like maybe you do, that Firewire is the superior technology compared to USB. Sure there are some aspects that Firewire devices are more intelligent, thus lex complex drivers etc ..

At the end it turned out to me that also the wonderful world of firewire definitively can have its challenges without now wanting to go into details.

As you can do firmware upgrades anyway only via USB it ended that I got rid of firewire entirely without any bad impact for me.

If you look to my other blog article comparing different products and connection types to PC you will even notice that the fron driver reported latencies in Cubase between USB2/3, Fw, Thunderbolt and PCIe are very very close to each other.

Look at the Excel Picture in my blog article about the UFX+:
http://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/inde … 8-RME-UFX/

In particular this image:
http://www.tonstudio-forum.de/index.php/Attachment/1931-UFX-UFX-RayDAT-Latencies-jpg/

Of course feel free to try out the other Firewire card, but should it remain tricky with your board and/or Win10 then I would simply be relaxed and very pragmatic and continue to use USB.

With my system I can playback 400 Audio tracks via UFX+ using USB3 with only 32 Asio buffers without any stutter. DRAM ("only 32 GB") was here the limitation (using Win7 without pagefile).

Shall you then come into issues with USB by eventually the mix of many different USB peripheral stuff ... then you have still the option to use i.e. this phantastic card with Fresco USB3 chips which are i.e. recommended in the UFX+ habdbook.

I took the more expensive card which has 1 dedicated USB3 controller for each of the 4 USB3 ports ...
https://www.heise.de/preisvergleich/son … 79334.html

So ... I hope I could help to show you options / alternatives.

BTW .. If you have still a disk image of Win 7 ... I would stick to Win 7 a little longer...

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2007-04-10
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Re: UFX and Windows 10 64bit and Firewire booting problem

If it works fine with USB, what advantage would you expect from the Firewire connection?

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

RME Support's Website

4 Reply by fiddler2007 (edited by fiddler2007 2017-05-02 15:52:57)

  • From: Netherlands
  • Registered: 2014-06-18
  • Posts: 82

Re: UFX and Windows 10 64bit and Firewire booting problem

Thanks both for your answers, and especially Ramses for your extensive one. For USB i have been now using an ASUS U3S6 card, has as far as i understand with also 2 separate USB 3 busses. I must say as user of 1394 a (and even b in the past) firewire related video hardware i experienced less hassles with 1394 compared to USB.

ramses wrote:

  .... BTW .. If you have still a disk image of Win 7 ... I would stick to Win 7 a little longer ...

Hanging on to Win7; I was doing that, and BTW Firewire worked fine there, but seemingly Windows 10 had improved a bit since it's release, and was recommended to me for speedy booting etc. Having also Windows 8.1 running on a laptop for quite a while without problems, i tried a conversion first from within Windows 7. That seemed working OK. So i decided to do a clean install of 10, and after taking out all the unnecessary Microsoft comedy with tools like 00SU10 and Win10Privacy, it seems to be running very stable and boots quite a bit faster, but that can also be since the registry of course is not filled with junk just yet. - regs, F.

  • ramses
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Re: UFX and Windows 10 64bit and Firewire booting problem

Win10 is not really booting faster they are doing trickeries which sometimes even cause trouble.

Sad thing is you cant control amount of upgrades anymore, like "only security upgrades", this makes Windows to a too quick changing system. We all know based on experience that too many changes easily can cause issues and who wants that where performance and reliability is what we all want ..

Another sad thing for me is still privacy .. changed Microsoft terms of usage which have far too many advantages for Microsoft and with the Upgrade installation they got already tons of private information, where the average user still was not aware of it.

Another thing which is still very wrong is the start menue which still missing the old finctionality to pin many applications onto it in a very efficient way "line by line" to be able to get a submenue of last used files. Rudimentary its again there but bad implemented which renders it to be unuseable. Same to sort every startmenue entry alphabetically. They simply crippled a good thing.

Last but not least they mixed the style of administration menues which looks very ugly / inconsistent.
And I also very much dislike the style of the new menues which look still as if they strip information down so that it fits also Tablet and Smartphones.
For me these kind of administration menues appear still crippled for true Desktop systems.

This is nothing which interests me as power user it renders an OS to become a toy.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2008-01-01
  • Posts: 3,025

Re: UFX and Windows 10 64bit and Firewire booting problem

You can disable the Windows Update service all together, though, and then manually download updates. wink

https://www.catalog.update.microsoft.co … windows+10

Have not used the catalog myself for quite a long time, though.

  • ramses
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Re: UFX and Windows 10 64bit and Firewire booting problem

Thanks but not my taste TBH to make this on my own.

I expect from M$ to deliver security patches automatically and to let me choose whether I want to stay more compatible to the last Major OS release train like "Win7 SP1 plus Security Patches" or whether I want to have every kind of extensions.

I areas like recording where we know already that most big changes are causing problems. So I really can not understand and support Microsoft in the way they are doing now with 10.

I think if I would have to start with 10 in perhaps 5 years, then I would try to install a Minimum System (tools are already available for this) and install only a very much stripped down version in the hope to disable by this also most of the "privacy robbing" features .. maybe then more add on tools are available then to "purify" Win10.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

8 Reply by Timur Born (edited by Timur Born 2017-05-02 22:11:34)

  • Registered: 2008-01-01
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Re: UFX and Windows 10 64bit and Firewire booting problem

To be fair, you do get this in Windows 10 as "Defer Upgrades", which practically is what you ask for, albeit the term "several months" is rather vague.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/ins … windows-10

  • ramses
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Re: UFX and Windows 10 64bit and Firewire booting problem

Timur Born wrote:

To be fair, you do get this in Windows 10 as "Defer Upgrades", which practically is what you ask for, albeit the term "several months" is rather vague.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/ins … windows-10

Sorry, but this is not the same.

Security updates ensure, that programs and subsystems are not changed, that only security related bugs become fixed.

This makes it much more easier for all companies writing drivers and applications  to test against i.e. Windows 7 or Windows 7 SP1.

With the windows as a service approach Microsoft created a too frequently changing OS.

A 4 month delay leads to a situation where every 4 month you get a shitload of changes installed accumulated, if you want or not.

The funny (or more tragic) thing is, that the last big ISO a few months ago didnt even allow a nee Indstallation on my PC.

TBH  ... such a crap quality I never saw before with any version of Windows for an official ISO.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13