• Registered: 2017-05-13
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Topic: Is "Steady Clock" really that good ??

I'm a fan of the original Alesis blackface ADATs . I like the sound of them , but don't want to use them as a stand alone recorder because the maintenance and upkeep of keeping the ADAT recorder working is a lot of work .

So I want to use the Blackface ADAT as my converters to record to the computer .  Problem is I've tried them through the ADAT connection with a couple different audio interfaces and the clocking is never good and the audio quality always suffers .

RME though got my interest . They have Steady Clock . How good is Steady Clock ?? Will it be able to sync up with the Alesis ADAT as the Master Clock and I won't suffer from poor audio quality ??

I'm not talking just eliminating clicks and pops , the usual problem of poor clocking , but will Steady Clock not degrade the audio quality like all the other audio interfaces I've tried ?

I want to get the same sound recording into the computer as I do recording to the tape .

Out of all the RME products which one would be best for the job if this is possible ?? RayDat ?? Babyface ??

2 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
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Re: Is "Steady Clock" really that good ??

They all have the same ADAT clock receiver inside. I am a bit sceptical about your statement. The ADAT clock usually does not cause other converters (or interfaces) to change their sound. The Blackface audio converter quality is the one to be questioned here, it is very outdated and did not even reach top specs at the time it was built. Aynway, you will not find a better ADAT receiver including jitter suppression than ours, IMHO.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • vinark
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Re: Is "Steady Clock" really that good ??

Can you discribe what you like about the sound and what you loose with other converters?

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
  • From: Leicester UK
  • Registered: 2015-02-11
  • Posts: 109

Re: Is "Steady Clock" really that good ??

Hi!

Sorry to jump in but I have wondered about SteadyClock.
and clocking in general.

Since the UCX unit came out has SteadyClock been upgraded? Is there a SteadyClock I, II or III?

If I were to clock to an external clock, say a Microclock IIIxb would SteadyClock be disengaged or would the Microclock just feed through SteadyClock?

In all honesty, I'm just wondering as SteadyClock is more than good enough.

Kind regards

Rodney

Rme Ucx + Rme Adi-2 Dac Fs

5 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2017-05-13 17:02:44)

  • ramses
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Re: Is "Steady Clock" really that good ??

Any RME interface with 2 ADAT ports IN will do an excellent job.
The question is whether you prefer a PCI, PCIe card for a desktop computer or something USB/Firewire based.
Or of you require also analog ports on such a card or would connect other D/A converters via ADAT.
And ofc And whether you want to have other options as well.

PCI: HDSP 9652: 3x ADAT, 1x SPDIF, 2x Midi, WC: with possibility to add 4x analog IN or OUT channels with expansion boards
PCIe: RayDAT: 4x ADAT, 1x AES, 1xSPDIF, 2x Midi: with the possibility to add WC module
USB: the new Digiface USB could be of interest with 4x ADAT/SPDIF, 1x Phones, completely USB Bus powered
        802, UFX, UFX II, UFX+

If you want i.e. to connect to a digital mixer in the future via MADI (see i.e. from Behringer or other)
or if you want to expand, then the UFX+ would be the best choice.

UFX, UFX II and UFX+ with Durec would also give you standalone capabilities combined with the possibility to record standalone or in parallel to an USB stick, shall the DAW get issues, you would be still save.

As the UFX II and UFX+ got nice extensions for Durec (Real Time Clock and support for even laggier disks)
I would propose to go for either
UFX II - fully USB2.0 or
UFX+ - USB3 (all I/Os), USB2 (all -MADI), Thunderbolt, with MADI support.
So the UFX II is the smaller sibling without MADI / USB3 / Thunderbolt

To sum up ..
1) most flexible solutions UFX II and UFX+
2) If you want to have analog ports as well
2a) on the card, then you need to go PCI with the HDSP 9652
2b) or with PCIe card like the RayDAT, but then you need to add a D/A or ADDA converter

3) if you need an excellent headphone Amp as well with reference classe D/A converter
    Get RayDAT and ADI-2 Pro, see here: http://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/inde … ort-DE-EN/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2017-05-13
  • Posts: 4

Re: Is "Steady Clock" really that good ??

MC wrote:

They all have the same ADAT clock receiver inside. I am a bit sceptical about your statement. The ADAT clock usually does not cause other converters (or interfaces) to change their sound. The Blackface audio converter quality is the one to be questioned here, it is very outdated and did not even reach top specs at the time it was built. Aynway, you will not find a better ADAT receiver including jitter suppression than ours, IMHO.


So I'll get the same ADAT performance with a digiface USB that I would get with Raydat ?

The USB interfaces will perform the same as the PCIe cards ?

I wasn't saying the ADAT clock changed the sound of other converters , but that running the Alesis through another audio interface to transfer audio to the computer and back , the audio quality took a hit and I didn't like the result .

The interfaces I tried were a Digi 002 and a Motu from the early 2000's .

  • From: Leicester UK
  • Registered: 2015-02-11
  • Posts: 109

Re: Is "Steady Clock" really that good ??

Hi!

Sorry to jump in but I have wondered about SteadyClock.
and clocking in general.

Since the UCX unit came out has SteadyClock been upgraded? Is there a SteadyClock I, II or III?

If I were to clock to an external clock, say a Microclock IIIxb would SteadyClock be disengaged or would the Microclock just feed through SteadyClock?

In all honesty, I'm just wondering as SteadyClock is more than good enough.

Kind regards

Rodney

Rme Ucx + Rme Adi-2 Dac Fs
  • ramses
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Re: Is "Steady Clock" really that good ??

ADI-2 Pro comes with SteadyClock III.

For i.e. the UFX+ or UFX II its not documented and I also got no answer on this forum.

In terms of UCX its also not documented and I cannot tell.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

9 Reply by diegomayfield (edited by diegomayfield 2017-05-13 17:39:40)

  • Registered: 2017-05-13
  • Posts: 4

Re: Is "Steady Clock" really that good ??

vinark wrote:

Can you discribe what you like about the sound and what you loose with other converters?

Ha , you must be in total shock to hear someone say they like the ADAT sound .

They sound punchy , kinda hard aggressive and pointy . I like how drums and bass sound through them . Cymbals though , high frequencies, sound ok , but not great .

Also the sound is 3-D like its jumping off the speakers . Glen Ballard has said this too in an interview saying he kinda misses the sound .

  • ramses
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Re: Is "Steady Clock" really that good ??

Interesting.

Could you kindly upload a sound example please,
1 time with and if possible 1 time with another A/D converter, but same project.

That would be very interesting to better understand what you want to adchieve, what your personal preferences are.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2017-05-13
  • Posts: 4

Re: Is "Steady Clock" really that good ??

ramses wrote:

Any RME interface with 2 ADAT ports IN will do an excellent job.
The question is whether you prefer a PCI, PCIe card for a desktop computer or something USB/Firewire based.
Or of you require also analog ports on such a card or would connect other D/A converters via ADAT.
And ofc And whether you want to have other options as well.

PCI: HDSP 9652: 3x ADAT, 1x SPDIF, 2x Midi, WC: with possibility to add 4x analog IN or OUT channels with expansion boards
PCIe: RayDAT: 4x ADAT, 1x AES, 1xSPDIF, 2x Midi: with the possibility to add WC module
USB: the new Digiface USB could be of interest with 4x ADAT/SPDIF, 1x Phones, completely USB Bus powered
        802, UFX, UFX II, UFX+

If you want i.e. to connect to a digital mixer in the future via MADI (see i.e. from Behringer or other)
or if you want to expand, then the UFX+ would be the best choice.

UFX, UFX II and UFX+ with Durec would also give you standalone capabilities combined with the possibility to record standalone or in parallel to an USB stick, shall the DAW get issues, you would be still save.

As the UFX II and UFX+ got nice extensions for Durec (Real Time Clock and support for even laggier disks)
I would propose to go for either
UFX II - fully USB2.0 or
UFX+ - USB3 (all I/Os), USB2 (all -MADI), Thunderbolt, with MADI support.
So the UFX II is the smaller sibling without MADI / USB3 / Thunderbolt

To sum up ..
1) most flexible solutions UFX II and UFX+
2) If you want to have analog ports as well
2a) on the card, then you need to go PCI with the HDSP 9652
2b) or with PCIe card like the RayDAT, but then you need to add a D/A or ADDA converter

3) if you need an excellent headphone Amp as well with reference classe D/A converter
    Get RayDAT and ADI-2 Pro, see here: http://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/inde … ort-DE-EN/

Thanks for all the info . I didn't know much about the UFX and how it can record in stand alone mode . Wow , that is really cool . RME has some great gear . The baby face with an iPad has my interest as well .

12 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2017-05-13 18:05:07)

  • ramses
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Re: Is "Steady Clock" really that good ??

Durec is a dream.
As Cubase becomes slower and slower these days I like to record guitar together with playback coming from PC.

So if there is perhaps an "orb" which playing / improvising / practising, then I have it on my USB stick. I do not need to mess around with DAW, I simply start playback with Music Bee, and record the music, and i.e. 2 Mics in front of the amp with Durec.

The best thing is ... I have now a special setup with an UFX+ in my guitar rig, which also allows me to record my Guitar playing.

So I connect the guitar to the UFX+, from there I go out to something like a tube screamer, which supports for decend sound with bedroom levels. From there I send Preamp back to UFX+.
From there I send the signal straight back into the amp to retain the punch of the preamp.
AND .. I also feed the signal to 2 Multi Effects, and their returns I also send to the amp.
So I create a parallel Effectloop by this ...

It sounds amazing, and as I also record my direct E-Guitar signal, I can of course also easily reamps via TotalMix.
In totalmix you can select the channels which become played back if you recorded smth on an USB stick.
Its so easy now to
a) find the proper sweet spot
b) optimize the effects

Have a look here how flexible you can work with it.

And with an ARC USB connected to UFX+ or UFX II you can even select different profiles or totalmix snapshots.
But as I just got the ARC USB I need to look how I can make best use out of it.

Also interesting is, that I can change the level between Guitar and Amp, can make the pickup a bit hotter, without having a hot pickup .. I could even use the EQ of the UFX*
The same in the communication between UFX+ and the Effect Return which goes to the amp.
I can make it hotter or not so hot, and balance this a little with the Master volume of the amp.

So many possibilities ... if you are interested in Durec, simply do it, its amazing !

Sorry, article only in german
http://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/inde … arren-Rig/

But here the diagram with the signal flow, maybe this explains it better to you.

http://www.tonstudio-forum.de/index.php/Attachment/1859-01-UFX-for-Guitar-Rig-png/


And look for a full digital Mixer like the Behringer like this (smaller / cheaper models available)
https://www.thomann.de/de/behringer_x_3 … 2_259395_0

You get such a MADI module:
https://www.thomann.de/de/behringer_x_madi.htm

Then you can use the UFX+ even in standalone mode as recorder .. wink

The UFX+ is a beast :-)

Here description of the advantages over the UFX and latency of the driver compared to other products
http://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/inde … 8-RME-UFX/

And here what nice things you can do with MADI in general
http://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/inde … Cber-MADI/

Sorry the last 2 only in germany, but maybe you understand a little and I provided diagrams.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • From: Leicester UK
  • Registered: 2015-02-11
  • Posts: 109

Re: Is "Steady Clock" really that good ??

Hi Ramses,
Thanks for the input smile

Looking at jitter figures, which I am hazy on btw, are there big performance differences between a clock rating such as 8 ns compared to 3 ns?

Or as a proconsumer am I looking at things in too much depth?

Kind regards
Rodney smile

Rme Ucx + Rme Adi-2 Dac Fs
  • ramses
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Re: Is "Steady Clock" really that good ??

Where are the 8 where the 3ns btw, to which devices do you refer to ?

Do you know these articles on that topic ?

http://www.soundonsound.com/people/rme-designs

https://www.rme-audio.de/english/techin … yclock.htm
https://www.rme-audio.de/techinfo/steadyclock.htm

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • vinark
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Re: Is "Steady Clock" really that good ??

diegomayfield wrote:
vinark wrote:

Can you discribe what you like about the sound and what you loose with other converters?

Ha , you must be in total shock to hear someone say they like the ADAT sound .

They sound punchy , kinda hard aggressive and pointy . I like how drums and bass sound through them . Cymbals though , high frequencies, sound ok , but not great .

Also the sound is 3-D like its jumping off the speakers . Glen Ballard has said this too in an interview saying he kinda misses the sound .

No not at all! I don,t know which part of the blackface causes that sound. Could be ad or da or both. So it might need some experimting. Maybe you could even record through the ad and then play back through the da of the recorder.
The effect of lower quality ad da is hard to replicate  with fX.
Interesting is you could record it analogue outputs with good ad and then retain the sound without the adat. Just as you can record a punchy 8bit sampler with 24 bits ad.
Cheers!

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
  • From: Leicester UK
  • Registered: 2015-02-11
  • Posts: 109

Re: Is "Steady Clock" really that good ??

Hi Ramses,

I have read those articles before, however my question was hypothetical. I understood the main principles but because it is so specific and detailed I found it difficult to place the concept objectively.

I'm happy enough with SteadyClock.

Regards

Rodney

Rme Ucx + Rme Adi-2 Dac Fs