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RME User Forum → TotalMix FX → Can I change the resolution to the volume wheel on the ARC?
Currently one "notch" on the wheel is 2db-2.5db (haphazardly switches between 2db and 2.5db) 
I'd like one notch to be lower like .5db or 1db.
Possible? Please say this is possible because the resolution is just way too low. I need more detail in raising and lowering the volume.
It should be possible because encoders can be tweaked via firmware.
I agree with this, I found the same haphazard encoder behaviour on my UFX+ (on the main volume encoder). It needs to be more precise!
It depends on the fader position - around 0 dB it is 0.5 dB steps. The ARC USB will always work differently than the mouse or a hardware control. Nevertheless one feature is currently missing: holding down the shift key while turning the mouse wheel changes the step-size to fine mode. We will try to add this feature for the ARC USB as well.
Encoder should retain its precision all the way, IMHO... It would be great to at least have an option for this, if possible, to always have 1 dB or 0.5 dB precision for one "click" of an encoder.
It depends on the fader position - around 0 dB it is 0.5 dB steps. The ARC USB will always work differently than the mouse or a hardware control. Nevertheless one feature is currently missing: holding down the shift key while turning the mouse wheel changes the step-size to fine mode. We will try to add this feature for the ARC USB as well.
Thanks guys.
Yes, the encoder(volume wheel) does .5-1db intervals near 0db. But that's way too hot to be a comfortable listening level for my Focal6s' and Avantones. I'm always down at -35db/-40db to achieve a comfortable listening level. Is that normal?
Yes, the encoder(volume wheel) does .5-1db intervals near 0db. But that's way too hot to be a comfortable listening level for my Focal6s' and Avantones. I'm always down at -35db/-40db to achieve a comfortable listening level. Is that normal?
No, it's a wrong setup. Read here:
https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=25399
Encoder should retain its precision all the way, IMHO... It would be great to at least have an option for this, if possible, to always have 1 dB or 0.5 dB precision for one "click" of an encoder.
What you describe is thought-less implementation of some manufacturers, not something that you really want. 0.5 dB steps all the way down make a level control unusable. Technically it is not possible at all as you don't have enough pixels on your screen for the fader to move in such small steps. There are many reasons why faders have special logarithmic 'curves' to maximize their operation.
This is not a fader, though, it's an endless encoder, the screen doesn't matter here. All I want is to be able to go from -24.0 dB to -23.0 dB in two clicks. But UFX+ often disobeys and sometimes jumps to -21.0 dB with just one click. This is not right!
Watch this, please. All I'm doing to the UFX+'s volume knob is one click back, one click forwards. It should always alternate between just two values (previous and next), but in reality it doesn't, it goes lower, and lower and lower. This is not right!
Don't mix unrelated things. The encoder is nothing else than a remote for a fader, the one in TM FX. And the remote will not change that fader's behavior whatever you program the encoder to do.
The other issue (only going down) is unrelated and I will check it.
Checked: I cannot reproduce this (are you on TM FX 1.42?). Well, I can somtimes reproduce it if I do not let the wheel competely nudge into the dent, which causes the electrical contact not to happen.
Also you seem to have overlooked that I responded already that we will try to add the fine mode via shift key.
Checked: I cannot reproduce this (are you on TM FX 1.42?)
Yes I am on latest TMFX. But this has nothing to do with TMFX, it happens with my computer turned off as well - it's the behaviour of the hardware encoder itself, even when UFX+ is running in standalone mode, on its own! (Perhaps this issue should be moved to UFX+ subforum, as it seems hardware related.)
Don't mix unrelated things. The encoder is nothing else than a remote for a fader, the one in TM FX. And the remote will not change that fader's behavior whatever you program the encoder to do..
Sure. It doesn't need to change the behaviour of the fader in TMFX (I know that it can't!). What I want is for one click of the HARDWARE encoder to always be 0.5 dB. And always be precise and not skip values.
Well, I can somtimes reproduce it if I do not let the wheel competely nudge into the dent, which causes the electrical contact not to happen.
In the video a click can be heard every single time when I go left-right with the encoder. The electrical connection HAS been made, for sure - isn't that what the click is guaranteeing? Otherwise if a connection wasn't made, the value shouldn't even change, no?
Also you seem to have overlooked that I responded already that we will try to add the fine mode via shift key.
Fine mode via shift key is cool, but that only helps if I'm moving TMFX sliders via mouse, not the front panel encoder. The imprecision that is bothering me is with the encoder, as I showed in the video.
I have some other products using detented encoders, and none of them have this precision issue (and they costed way less than 2800€ - it's not that I'm unhappy with my UFX+, but this encoder thing is severely annoying considering the size of investment I did... Waldorf Blofeld's patch changing encoder which is also "clicking" doesn't have this issue, and that Blofeld is like 300€)... Doing single left-right encoder turns always goes between exactly the same two values there...
Well, I can't see the video, seems to be set to private...that's why I didn't get that you have that problem on the UFX+ itself. I don't have that specific problem on my UFX+, on any of the three encoders, but let me see that video first.
Ah sorry, I set it to private. I changed it to unlisted now, so please revisit the link
Sadly the prev-next encoder notch issue I can see on all 3 encoders on mine.
I can confirm that it happens also to me and also when turning off the PC.
So it doesnt have to do with the driver or TotalMix FX.
Only for reference here: 2 UFX+: both SW v37, Driver 0.9610, TM 1.42
To trigger the issue: you simply need to turn the know left/right 1 position repeatedly.
Around 0 - -15dB no deltas, but the lower you get the more deltas you get up to 10dB around -40 / -50 dB.
But it was never a problem for me, as I turned down the volume of my Main Monitors so much,
that 0dB are loud, but do not hurt my ears.
For Main Out and Phones I use these settings:
Main Out:
- Output Level: +4 dBu
- Fader Level: -20dB
Phones:
- Output Level: Low
- Fader Level: -25dB
By this I have enough headroom
- starting from relatively quiet when just powering on the system
- up to good listening volume
So I would advice you to work on the Levels and bring this more into balance.
In the case that somebody has Monitors without Volume Potis this might become nasty, as some monitors have very high output to get very good sound at normal levels. These of course could force a user to work with -40dB where this issue could lead to noticeably volume differences.
If RME could find a solution for this would be nice.
I think this is more SW / Firmware related, as at the end you turn an encoder always between 2 states.
The behaviour changes with the volume range in which you do the left/right movements.
I also get deltas even in the higher range... They start at around -6...-5 dB. Above that is fine.
So, after some confusion and a 'problem' that is not related to the thread title at all I have to conclude: there is no problem.
What the video shows is very simple to explain - you toggle much too quick. Do it a little bit slower and it will work as you expect.
The reason that it changes the value when turning the encoder more quick is the accelleration that it has when you move the knob more quick - it then uses bigger steps, which is fully intuitive. That is standard behaviour on all our units (and others). Without this accelleration you would need to turn the knob 6 times to get from -65 dB to 0 dB...
I did a cross check now and turned only in one direction from 0 to -60.
You will notice up to -30 all is quite right and the the same speed then of all sudden bigger and bigger deltas come in.
Also when you start at -30?
Ah, clever idea, but also there.
You also need to take into consideration, that nobody dials one step, make a short break, then the next step.
If you need to have it louder or more silent, then your finger get used to, how much to turn the wheel.
If the monitors are loud and (maybe because they have no potis) much to loud at 0dB, then you might get into trouble when always operating in the area between -60 - -30db.
The only solution I see I told already, to turn down volume on speakers to be able to operate from -25 to 0dB.
Alternatively or additionally use of attenuators, as had been suggested already by Matthias in another case.
The question simply is - whether the bigger jumps in the lower volume range is intentional or something which could be fixed in the code to make the behaviour more unique so that its more equal if you do the same at around -10 or at around -40 dB to put an example.
So, after some confusion and a 'problem' that is not related to the thread title at all I have to conclude: there is no problem.
What the video shows is very simple to explain - you toggle much too quick. Do it a little bit slower and it will work as you expect.
The reason that it changes the value when turning the encoder more quick is the accelleration that it has when you move the knob more quick - it then uses bigger steps, which is fully intuitive. That is standard behaviour on all our units (and others). Without this accelleration you would need to turn the knob 6 times to get from -65 dB to 0 dB...
I guess I would like this accelleration as an on-off option, then!
Or, accelleration algorithm should be smart enough to detect that the change happening is in the same direction (always down-down-down or up-up-up) before it even starts accelleration - THAT would be more logical, instead of accellerating regardless of the direction encoder is being turned in!
While we could add such a detection you have to ask yourself - who toggles quickly between the same two values? Is that a valid way of operating the unit? IMHO we better use our time for more useful additions and fixes. Also we are already working on improving the encoder response in a different way which might be helpful for you as well.
You make a good point.
Well - eager to test the improved encoder response then!
I understand there are a few slightly different issues being discussed in this thread, but with regards to the idea of ARC (and ARC USB) encoder acceleration, I thought I'd just add my thoughts briefly below. (In the long run, I guess it might be better to find another thread if there is one, or start a new one.)
I am quite happy with the default acceleration behaviour of the ARC USB encoder, but I'm a fan of endless configuration, so I would also be very happy to see some options (presumably in TotalMix FX somewhere) for alternative acceleration settings to be applied.
For example, it could be something like a simple dropdown:
Encoder wheel acceleration:
- Default
- Slow (more turns required to create the same amount of change)
- Fast (fewer turns required .. !)
- One click = x dB
- etc.
Plus a single input box: "Encoder wheel dB change: [ x ] dB"
Just some ideas. Looking forward to whatever RME come up with in the meantime!
Cheers.
Those options would be awesome! Especially "one click = x dB"
Any news on this? I'd like to be able to change my speaker volume by specific dB amounts per click on my ARC USB.
Interestingly enough, using the Main Knob on my UFX in Standalone Mode, each "click" is 0.5 db. Love to do that with my ARC USB.
RME User Forum → TotalMix FX → Can I change the resolution to the volume wheel on the ARC?
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