• Registered: 2014-08-14
  • Posts: 29

Topic: UCX based piano rig crashes regularly after two years of loyal service

Hi RME users,

I just sent a mail to the RME support about this issue, but perhaps you have also some profitable experience to share regarding it.

I am the very happy user of an RME UCX, that I exclusively use for my digital piano rig based on a Kawai VPC1 piano controller and a Gigabyte GB-BXi7-4770R NUC PC running Windows 7 64bit and the Ivory II American D virtual piano. The Kawai VCP1 has its own power supply and the PC too. The PC and the UCX are connected through one of its four USB 3.0 connectors, while the Kawai keyboard is connected to the UCX through a DIN MIDI connector.

During the past two years, my setup worked like a charm without internet connection or upgrades. No problem, so no need to change ANYTHING to my setup !

OK, no problem, except sometimes, when opening or closing my motorized rolling shutter. In this situation I often get a crash of Ivory Cantabile which is part of of the Ivory II American D virtual piano and which runs the VST. Ivory Cantabile crashes when the UCX doesn't respond anymore, because its sound engine relies permanently on it. Restarting Cantabile after the rolling shutter issue, worked fine until now. But a few weeks ago, things went more difficult, because of crashes with a higher rate and even without opening or closing my rolling shutters. Indeed, now, whatever I do, when playing and after a while... the app crashes. Only Cantabile crashes, while Totalmix always goes on to work without crashing. It is sometimes very sudden, and sometimes some noise is produced before the app crashes. After a crash, it is sometimes enough to restart Cantabile to make my setup work again. But some other times, it is even not enough to shutdown and power off everything before restarting the piano rig to make it work again. I then have to power off everything and wait a certain time until I can play again.

In order to make things better, I added an APC 325A surge protector and battery backup device on my piano rig, but it didn't change anything. I was so sure that my UCX could be cleared of suspicion, that I bought a brand new computer of the exact same model and only reused the SSD and RAM for testing purposes. And the result is that I still have the same crashes !

I am now suspecting the UCX :-(

I didn't check the firmware or driver version I use, but it is probably old enough for you to give me the advice to upgrade it. But remember that my setup is isolated from the rest of the world and it worked like a charm during the two last years.

Any idea for helping me to diagnose what could be wrong with my piano rig ?

2 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2017-05-15 15:24:48)

  • ramses
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Re: UCX based piano rig crashes regularly after two years of loyal service

Its a good idea to upgrade, because no company would make fixed to old code.
And there is always a chance that newer code covers something that might have been introduced by upgrades of windows or one of the drivers or applications.

Another advantage is, that in the newer TM version you have a new TM FX feature called DAW mode.
It removes TM FX as mixer in Windows, so that you make then everything in the DAW.

Not that you shall get rid of using TM FX .. But in this case here it brought at least some insight,
that the recording interface is working to encourage the user to reinstall something in the area
of application, and now of all sudden everything works.
https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=25520

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2014-08-14
  • Posts: 29

Re: UCX based piano rig crashes regularly after two years of loyal service

ramses wrote:

Its a good idea to upgrade, because no company would make fixed to old code.
And there is always a chance that newer code covers something that might have been introduced by upgrades of windows or one of the drivers or applications.
https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=25520

Hi Ramses, thanks for your answer, but this is exactly the only answer I didn't want to read ;-)
My piano rig didn't change at all from the very beginning of its installation. I never installed any OS or software upgrade since the initial installation and my PC was never connected to the Internet. I just wanted a stable EP. So my software setup didn't change during the two last years. From the first week of use it works exactly like an EP. I start it, I play, and I stop it afterwards, that's it.

I never changed my software setup, I just replaced the hardware of the PC this week for testing purposes, so to tell you the truth, I am now suspecting a hardware issue of the UCX which went worse with the time (power supply, RME USB hardware, I don't know...). I am not sure that a software upgrade will change the relationship between my rolling shutter and my piano setup ;-)

So I am not against upgrading TM or the UCX firmware, but then I will have some software change with regard with my previously working setup. Really, no idea to check the hardware before I modify something to the software that I never changed and that worked perfectly during two years ?

4 Reply by MC

  • MC
  • MC
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  • From: Germany/Thailand
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
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Re: UCX based piano rig crashes regularly after two years of loyal service

The UCX power supply is a good bet. Easy to check...

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2014-08-14
  • Posts: 29

Re: UCX based piano rig crashes regularly after two years of loyal service

MC wrote:

The UCX power supply is a good bet. Easy to check...

Hi Matthias,

It is easy to check if you work at RME ;-)

Thanks for the advice. I bought my UCX by thomann.de and to be exact it will be two years only in July, so it is still officially under warranty.

Do you think I could ask Thomann for a replacement of the power supply unit (on the basis of your diagnostic) without sending the UCX back ?

  • vinark
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Re: UCX based piano rig crashes regularly after two years of loyal service

It is easy in the sense it can be any power supply that meets the specs, they are in the manual! Even a laptop/netbook power supply will do if it is within the specs.

Vincent, Amsterdam
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BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

7 Reply by David-san (edited by David-san 2017-05-25 15:26:54)

  • Registered: 2014-08-14
  • Posts: 29

Re: UCX based piano rig crashes regularly after two years of loyal service

Well, well... so I borrowed a 12V 2A power supply and replaced the original one, but it didn't solve the problem. As I am still suspecting an hardware issue I tested the RAM using memtest86, and it detected some errors when testing for a long period, using two memory sticks together, but not when using them separately. So I started my piano rig with only one memory stick, and after two hours of gig, still no problem!

I am now away from my home until next week, and it has to be further tested, but perhaps that I have got it...

  • Registered: 2014-08-14
  • Posts: 29

Re: UCX based piano rig crashes regularly after two years of loyal service

- replaced the power supply => no change
- checked the memory of my PC => pairing issue, I use only 8Gb for the moment => no rolling shutter issue for the moment but still have crashes

Activating the Ivory Cantabile error log files, the following  error .log file was produced just before crashing :
==============================================================
18:27:53 [K2]: asio - OnAsioMessage: 3 - kAsioResetRequest
18:27:53 [K2]: asio - Reset Request
18:27:53 [A2]: AudioEnvironment - Engine Stopping (hard)
18:27:53 [A2]: vstrackitem- Ivory VST - Stopping
18:27:53 [A2]: audrec - Stopping...
18:27:53 [B2]: audrec - Writer thread finished
18:27:53 [A2]: asio - Stopping driver...
18:27:53 [A2]: asio - Disposing buffers...
18:27:53 [A2]: asio - Stopped.
18:27:53 [A2]: midiin - UCX Midi Port 1: Device stopped
18:27:53 [A2]: midiin - UCX Midi Port 1: Device reset
18:27:53 [A2]: midiin - UCX Midi Port 1: Buffers released
18:27:53 [A2]: midiin - UCX Midi Port 1: Device closed
18:27:53 [A2]: midiin - UCX Midi Port 2: Device stopped
18:27:53 [A2]: midiin - UCX Midi Port 2: Device reset
18:27:53 [A2]: midiin - UCX Midi Port 2: Buffers released
18:27:53 [A2]: midiin - UCX Midi Port 2: Device closed
18:27:54 [G2]: AvRevertMmThreadCharacteristics succeeded
18:27:54 [C2]: AvRevertMmThreadCharacteristics succeeded
18:27:54 [D2]: AvRevertMmThreadCharacteristics succeeded
18:27:54 [E2]: AvRevertMmThreadCharacteristics succeeded
18:27:54 [E2]: AvRevertMmThreadCharacteristics succeeded
18:27:54 [H2]: AvRevertMmThreadCharacteristics succeeded
18:27:54 [I2]: AvRevertMmThreadCharacteristics succeeded
18:27:54 [A2]: AudioEnvironment - Engine stopped.
18:27:54 [A2]: asio - Releasing asio driver
18:27:54 [A2]: asio - Initialising on thread 2252...
18:27:54 [A2]: asio - Driver created OK
18:27:54 [A2]: asio - init() OK
18:27:54 [A0]: asio - getChannels() failed - ASE_NotPresent (0xfffffc18)
18:27:54 [A2]: asio - Releasing asio driver
18:27:54 [A2]: AudioEnvironment - Engine Starting (hard)
18:27:54 [A2]: AudioEnvironment - 32 Bit Audio
==============================================================

Here is an analysis from the Cantabile developper :

"To explain... the ASIO driver will issue a reset request if it decided for some reason that it's unable to continue processing in it's current mode and needs to be reset.  Sometimes this can be a normal operation caused by changing hardware or perhaps in an attempt to resync clocks.  More often than not however it's a symptom of a more fundamental hardware problem - which is reinforced in this case by the driver to reporting errors ("not present error") when Cantabile tries to restart the driver.

My best guess here is some kind of audio hardware issue.  Is this a USB audio device you're using - perhaps check for faulty of loose cables and make sure you have the latest drivers for it installed."

The USB is the original one from the UCX, I can change it but honestly, I am convinced it will not change anything.

I would be very curious to understand, why does the ASIO driver ask for kAsioResetRequest !

Any idea ?

David

9 Reply by David-san (edited by David-san 2017-06-07 23:42:20)

  • Registered: 2014-08-14
  • Posts: 29

Re: UCX based piano rig crashes regularly after two years of loyal service

Finally, I decided to update the UCX firmware and driver => no change :-(((

10 Reply by MC

  • MC
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Re: UCX based piano rig crashes regularly after two years of loyal service

My guess is that any kind of electrical noise over the power lines resets the UCX. Maybe the UCX is gotten too old and that effect now got worse. Or you changed something in your home, maybe got a new fridge some time ago that causes this kind of electric power noise when switching on and off.

Of course usually the UCX is not so sensitive to this kind of noise (our forum would be full of such posts).

Note that the driver issues a kASIOResetRequest when buffer size or sample rate changes. When the driver looses the hardware the same will happen, and as you can read in the log after the reset the ASIO channels are not existing anymore so Cantabile immediately stops further action. With the above theory that would make sense.

Unfortunately the only way to check this out further might be to get a second (new) UCX and see if that changes the behavior on your system.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • From: Leicester UK
  • Registered: 2015-02-11
  • Posts: 109

Re: UCX based piano rig crashes regularly after two years of loyal service

If it is electrical noise you could try using a power filter.

Furman is generally the main recommendation.

Regards

Rodney

Rme Ucx + Rme Adi-2 Dac Fs
  • Registered: 2014-08-14
  • Posts: 29

Re: UCX based piano rig crashes regularly after two years of loyal service

So if I summarize, it seems that my UCX unit could be sensitive to some kind of electrical noise leading to a reset of the unit which then becomes unresponsive and therefore looses its connection to the driver, leading to a crash.  As the UCX is not supposed to be sensitive to electrical noise, my unit seem to be faulty.

OK, I just ordered a brand new UCX to try to confirm this assumption.

Well, well, not exactly the cheapest diagnostic I ever made...

  • cyrano
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Re: UCX based piano rig crashes regularly after two years of loyal service

A powerline analyser would have cost about ten times that big_smile

MB Pro - 2 X FireFace 400, FF800 & DigiFace USB
ADAT gear: Korg, Behri, Fostex, Alesis...

cyrano's Website

  • From: Leicester UK
  • Registered: 2015-02-11
  • Posts: 109

Re: UCX based piano rig crashes regularly after two years of loyal service

Powerline Analyer or Power Filter?

Two different things....Power Filters start from about £150 -€175

Rme Ucx + Rme Adi-2 Dac Fs
  • Registered: 2014-08-14
  • Posts: 29

Re: UCX based piano rig crashes regularly after two years of loyal service

I am still not 100% sure or the origin of my issue, but until now :
- I replaced the PC by the exact same model (apart the SSD, the RAM and the USB cable)
=> No change...

- I replaced the UCX power unit
=> No change...

- I checked the memory and it appeared that the memory sticks are faulty, but only when used together (bad pairing). So, for the moment, I removed one 8Gb stick for testing purposes.
=> I never had the issue with the motorized rolling shutter anymore (I don't know if it is really related to the memory or not).
=> But still had crashes of Cantabile.

- I updated the UCX firmware and TotalMix
=> Less crashes, but still, and it is perhaps very suggestive

- I ordered a brand new UCX and in the meantime I came to the idea I could change my old USB cable
=> The new UCX is not yet installed, but it seems that I don't have crashes anymore. Could it be that I had a faulty USB cable... hmmm... perhaps!

I will go on using my piano rig with the new USB cable and if it crashes again, I will test with the brand new UCX.

16 Reply by fiddler2007 (edited by fiddler2007 2017-07-04 14:20:07)

  • From: Netherlands
  • Registered: 2014-06-18
  • Posts: 82

Re: UCX based piano rig crashes regularly after two years of loyal service

My experience sofar: for both Firewire and USB the quality of the cables seem crucial, especially with longer ones. And these rather sensitive cables do get damaged due bending, being stepped upon etc. F