1 (edited by taccess 2017-06-02 06:42:10)

Topic: Babyface Analog inputs HELP

I am trying to connect my kawai to my daw but there is a major issue.
Firstly i have midi playing out to the kawai which is no issue .
The issue is the sound quality from the kawai to the daw.

TEST A :Should work but does not
> I have connected 2 1/4 jacks from the  headphone outs of the kawai into the Babyface Analog Inputs XLR L+R.
However  there is this weird reverb effect on middle C outwards approx 1 octave its really bad !! WCIB !!! all other notes seem to sound correct .
Here is a picture of total mix fx with both XLR inputs into the babyface.
https://s4.postimg.org/x3cykqtkd/XLR_2_analog.png
TEST B : the only way i can get it  to work -
a)connect  kawai headphone output L > into  babyface XLR IN L  ( total mix fx = 9.0 gain )
b)connect  Kawai headphone output R > into  babface  INST IN    ( total mix fx =18.0 gain + inst ON )
Here is a picture of the XLR L + INST R inputs into the babyface
notice also in total mix fx the INST R gain needs to be up +9db to have equal output  with the XLR L ?
https://s30.postimg.org/ktc5bclhd/INST_and_XLR_R.png


Any help is appreciated i am sure there is a reason this is happening

2 (edited by ramses 2017-06-02 07:01:06)

Re: Babyface Analog inputs HELP

The pictures are too tiny :-(
Its hard to see, but it looks to me, as if the BBF has no FX enabled.

But what looks strange, why do you use XLR 1? in mono (L) and Line IN 4? mono (R) ?

The Kwai is a piano I guess and it has for sure asymmetrical line outputs to phone.

So you can not mix on the BBF symmetrical and asymmetrical inputs, that should be clear.

From the product specs the BBF Pro has:
2 analog inputs AN1/2 for Mic and symmetrical line in
2 analog inputs AN3/4 for asymmetrical line / instr inputs

So, please use the 2 asymmetrical line inputs AN3/4 for the Kwai and best in stereo mode, its a stereo signal.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

3 (edited by taccess 2017-06-02 11:05:20)

Re: Babyface Analog inputs HELP

Its a Babyface > Not A Pro > No AN3/4

So your saying with the  Baby face > don't use AN1/2 for instruments in > only for mic IN's ?

i guess my TEST 2 is the only way until i upgrade to a BBF PRO

Unless someone can point me in the right direction to connect 2 x 1/4 headphone jacks from Kawai kdp80 into the Baby face / has to be stereo input

Re: Babyface Analog inputs HELP

Ok, misunderstood, so BBF.
Then use Analog IN 1/2 in stereo mode.
And pls see handbook p.8, the comment when you use XLR inputs with an asymmetric connection:

"The Babyface has two analog microphone inputs that can operate as line inputs with levels up to  +12  dBu,  when  set  to  0  dB  gain.  The  electronic  input  stage  uses  a  servo  balanced  design  which  handles  unbalanced  and  balanced  signals  correctly,  automatically  adjusting  the  level  reference. When  using  unbalanced  cables  with  the  XLR  break
out  cable:  be  sure  to  connect  the  'ring'  contact of a stereo TRS jack, and pin 3 of a XLR jack, to ground. Otherwise noise may occur, caused by the unconnected negative input of the balanced input."

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Babyface Analog inputs HELP

yes that works

However i think the problem is when i connect the 2 x XLR /TRS from (TRS  Kawai OUT to XLR Anal L+R babyface IN ) the default Kawai sound " grand piano " seems to work though it still sounds slightly wrong at middle C . However as soon as i switch the Kawai sound to 'rock piano " or anything else still using the same connections the problem occurs really bad .

The only way around is for me to connect using my first post "TEST 2" which allows all the sounds to connect properly and to be honest it sounds so much more precise this way . I am not sure exactly why TEST 2 is connecting better ( or why the Inst Gain needs to be +9.0 above AN1 ) but hey it works and is obviously a work around for anyone else having similar stereo connection issues using the older babyface .

My BBF is the snow edition.

Thanks for all your help

Re: Babyface Analog inputs HELP

is there anyway to increase the gain on AN1 by 0.1 to 0.9 or is it only by 1.0's

Re: Babyface Analog inputs HELP

taccess wrote:

is there anyway to increase the gain on AN1 by 0.1 to 0.9 or is it only by 1.0's

You sit in front of your device.

If the gain can only be incremented by 1.0's then it is like it is wink
But why is it important for you to adjust your gain in 0.1 ???

When the input gain is in a good range that you do not get distortion by getting over 0dB
the rest is being adjusted by faders on Hardware Inputs and Outputs.

My UFX+ can increase the Gain by 0.5's and I am able to select between Lo Gain and +4 dBu.
Never had to change something bigger... Also not with the UFX which I had before.

My old Yamaha I simply connected and adjusted the volume mainly on the Yamaha to get a suitable input level.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Babyface Analog inputs HELP

The reason I want to increase the gain :

There is a 0.2db difference between the  XLR L =-20DB &  THE INST R = 19.8db in total mix fx .
I realise this is small just thought if it could be adjusted by 0.2 the I could balance out this PITA connection to my kawai.

Anyways like I said it's not even noticeable anyways

Thanks

Re: Babyface Analog inputs HELP

Why dont you use the 2 XLRs AN1/2 at the same level, why INSTR R ???

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Babyface Analog inputs HELP

>2 X Hoser cables / TRS's out from kawai phone jacks to XLR's IN'S AN1+ AN2 ( these are the cables )
>total mix fx - AN1 is set to stereo

It works - however middle C + 1 octave (approx ) either way is really bad ???
sounds like an overwhelming reverb that squashes the tone of the piano notes from middle C outwards either way approx 1 octave .

-So for example if I hit middle c on the piano all I hear is 90% reverb + 10% piano tone > (something is not right )
-When I go 1 octave up Or down to the next C note on the piano it is 100 piano tone ( working perfectly)

(Let me say that reverb sound is what it sounds like - like the tone is squahed to death and can't breath ) best way I can describe it - totally unusable .

Any suggestions ! Also why does it works with AN1 + INST flawlessly ? I think I have a dud snow edition !

11

Re: Babyface Analog inputs HELP

Play your middle C with only left channel XLR connected. Then play it with only R channel XLR connected. Then swap left and right. What happens?

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

Re: Babyface Analog inputs HELP

1) TRS L only plugged into the kawai ) to XLR L Analog BBF IN
RESULT : same result no good - middle c sounds like a smoker who can't
2) exactly the opposite to :1)
Result :  same result no good

3) swap of both : 1) & 2)
Result : same result no good

4) ok now I wondered something else  !?!?!? When I connect the  (TRS to XLR L  BBF )+ (TRS to TS R BBF INST )> we know it works this way BUT when I disable the ( inst - orange button in total mix fx , leaving only AN1 L now live - AN1 now works clearly - properly as it should !

Why will AN 1 L not work on its own
But when I combine it with INST R I have proper stereo and then when I disable INST in total mix fx I have proper AN1 L ? I am mind boggled

any suggestions what's causing this

13

Re: Babyface Analog inputs HELP

Do a TotalMix Total Reset.

If that doesn't help your cabling might be broken, maybe not the cables but the BF breakoutcable. Find a technician that can check all these with an ohm meter.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

14 (edited by taccess 2017-06-05 05:12:46)

Re: Babyface Analog inputs HELP

I can confirm you are right it's not the BBF

I pulled out the snow edition breakout cable and connected the kawai via rca and it works perfectly AN1 + AN2 .

Either the XLR breakout cable is broken or the cables I am using has issues . I will sort it thanks again for all your help .