Topic: 48v on UFX II analog inputs (1 to 8)?

Hello.

I'm sorry if this is a dumb question...

I've bought an UFX II, and I notice that analog inputs (1 to 8) doesn't have 48v. Is that right? I can't plug microfones on that inputs?
The only inputs with 48v are 9 to 12?

Thanks for the help!

2 (edited by ramses 2017-06-02 23:07:29)

Re: 48v on UFX II analog inputs (1 to 8)?

> I've bought an UFX II, and I notice that analog inputs (1 to 8) doesn't have 48v. Is that right?
Yes because these are Line Inputs and not Microphone inputs, see manual.

> I can't plug microfones on that inputs?
Not directly, because these are line inputs and not Microphone inputs, see manual.
Its possible if you have an external Mic preamp with analog outputs.

> The only inputs with 48v are 9 to 12?
Yes but only if you enable 48V in TM FX for these inputs.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: 48v on UFX II analog inputs (1 to 8)?

Thanks for the quick reply.

Yes, I know I have to enable 48v on TM.

Ok, so I can only have 4 mics on UFX II.
Now, do RME have external Mic preamp? And how do I plug it on UFX?

Thanks, once again.

4 (edited by ramses 2017-06-03 12:58:28)

Re: 48v on UFX II analog inputs (1 to 8)?

http://www.rme-audio.de/products/overview_preamps.php

Plugged in usually via ADAT.
ADAT has 8 channels à 44.1/48.
With 88.2/96 multiplexing is used and then you have only 4 channels.
192 = only 2 channels.

So if you want to max the number of channels you can connect
2 XTC with in total 16 additional Mics @44.1/96.
Or 1 XTC with 8 Mics @88.2/96 using ADAT1 and ADAT2.

With an UFX+ you could have plugged up to 8 XTC via MADI.
MADI allows for 64 channels via optical fiber which can be up to 2km long.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: 48v on UFX II analog inputs (1 to 8)?

Thanks again for the reply, ramses.

So, if I buy an OctaMix XTC and plug it via ADAT with the UFX II, I can have 12 mic inputs with top quality @96kHz (4 with UFX II and 8 with XTC)?
And all this controlled by TM, correct?

And what about the OctaMic II? Can I plug it with UFX II and have similar quality?

Thanks.

Re: 48v on UFX II analog inputs (1 to 8)?

-yes
-yes the XTC is the only preamp AFAIK which fully integrates into the TM FX instance of your UFX II
so you can control the gain settings and some other stuff and store all this digitally in snapshots
this remote control works via MIDI.
If you would have chosen UFX+ then this all would go straight over one fiber cable which can be 2km long
and MIDI control signals are sent also via MADI by using some unused bits in the protocol.

So if you have the flexibility / budget, I would suggest to upgrade to UFX+ to reduce the amount of cables
and to enable for even more channels in the future.

Otherwise all is fine, keep UFX II, get XTC, get 2 ADAT Cables (can be up to approx 15m), get Midi Cable to get the remote control working, you need to configure the XTC as so called "AUX device" in the TM FX instance of your UFX II.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

7 (edited by ramses 2017-06-04 14:24:21)

Re: 48v on UFX II analog inputs (1 to 8)?

No I mean Midi cable between UFX II and XTC to be able to remote control the XTC as a so called "AUX Device".

XTC handbook Chapter 11.

You need 2 cables in fact, for ingoing and outgoing control / status messages.

There is also a RME application "Midi remote control" for completely remote controlling the XTC,
but you can only do one at a time,
- either to use it as an AUX device or
- using midi control

I would use the variant via AUX Device as its smarter being able to digitally store the Gain settings,
panning, phantom power in TotalMix.

The XTC is the only preamp which supports to be controlled as AUX device.

See also here my blog article, its in german though, but you can see i.e. a screenshot of this RME application:
http://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/inde … Cber-MADI/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: 48v on UFX II analog inputs (1 to 8)?

Oh, ok, sorry. Got it. Just with UFX+ via MADI, we don't need the MIDI cable.

Thanks for all the help. If something else comes by (when I buy XTC), I'll ask for your help again. :-)

Re: 48v on UFX II analog inputs (1 to 8)?

You're welcome, have fun.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: 48v on UFX II analog inputs (1 to 8)?

Ramses, sorry, one more question:

If I want to use the XTC mic inputs with my UFX II, and remote control it (midi only):
. UFX II MIDI out --> XTC1 MIDI in (connecting XTC1 ADAT out to UFX II ADAT in)
With this setup, I can use and remote control the extra 8 mic input on TM, right?


Now, if I want to remote control two XTC with my UFX II?
. UFX II MIDI out --> XTC1 MIDI in (connecting XTC1 ADAT out to UFX II ADAT in)
. XTC1 ?? --> XTC2 ?? (connecting XTC2 ADAT out to UFX II ADAT out2)

Many thanks.

Re: 48v on UFX II analog inputs (1 to 8)?

Look

UFX II - MIDI OUT  ---------------------------------> MIDI IN - XTC
UFX II - MIDI    IN <--------------------------------  MIDI OUT - XTC

UFX II - ADAT1 IN <--------------------------------- ADAT OUT 1 - XTC
UFX II - ADAT2 IN <--------------------------------- ADAT OUT 2 - XTC

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

12 (edited by Ricardo Verdelho 2017-06-05 12:12:45)

Re: 48v on UFX II analog inputs (1 to 8)?

Thanks.

And if I want one XTC with UFX II @96kHz (8 mic inputs), I'll have to plug ADAT out 1 and ADAT out 2 to UFX II (S/MUX format), right?


Ramses, the more I talk to you, the more I read the manuals, the more I'm confused if I keep the UFX II or switch to UFX+.
Ok, here some questions that will make me decide if I switch the interfaces or not (sorry the boring...):

- Does the UFX+ and UFX II have the same top quality preamp and conversion?

- When using MADI connection, whats the higher sample rate, if ONE or MORE XTC are plugged with an UFX+? All @44.1/48 or 96kHz, no matter the number of XTC connected (with 8 mic inputs) (double and quad speed)?

- ADAT stay at no higher than 44.1/48kHz. To put @96, we have to use ADAT out 1 and 2. Does MADI have this same issue?

- Whats the thing with "sample delay" on MADI connections? If I buy a XTC and use MADI, do I have to do something manual (on XTC or TM)? Does ADAT have the same "delay" thing?

- I have a Mac Pro with USB 2.0. Is the UFX+ 3.0 full compatible with Mac? Can I use the 3.0 cable too?


I'm very sorry with all this questions, but I have to make a quick decision in the next days.
Thanks!

13 (edited by ramses 2017-06-05 12:48:30)

Re: 48v on UFX II analog inputs (1 to 8)?

To your questions:
- yes according to RME the only difference is USB3, TB, MADI
- MADI has more channels 8 XTC @48, 4 XTC @96, 2 XTC @192.
- You can run one ADAT channel only, but then you have 8ch @48, 4ch @96, 2ch @192
   so with one XTC you have @96 only 4+4=8 instead of @48 4+8 = 12 channels
- XTC can be setup to perform delay compensation on its own "Options->MADI settings-> Auto-CA"
  see XTC manual chapter 10.   https://archiv.rme-audio.de/download/octamicxtc_e.pdf
  With my 2 XTC I simply used "Auto-CA"
- You will need USB3 to be able to use also the MADI channels
  I think you could use the same PCIe card as me if your Mac Pro has a x4 PCI socket free
  this card gives you 4 USB3 controller so that each of the port supports full USB3 speed
  http://www.sonnettech.com/PRODUCT/alleg … 3pcie.html
  https://www.heise.de/preisvergleich/son … 79334.html
  And according to the UFX+ handbook the Fresco Chip is fully compatible with the UFX+.

This article might help you to identify, whether your free PCIe sockets support 4-lanes.
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/m … slots.html

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: 48v on UFX II analog inputs (1 to 8)?

Hmm... I have several friends who tried to put an PCIe USB 3 into a Mac Pro, and the results were not good at all (Apple…). 

Anyway, here’s my last 2 questions (I hope):

1. I can order an UFX+ and use the MIDI, ADAT and USB2, as it were an UFX II (full compatibility)? I expect to buy an new PC (with usb3) in 1 year or so. When that time comes, I switch to MADI with usb3. What do you think? Can I really use UFX+ with USB2 slot and cable on my Mac with any issues?

2. Now, for main question, this is what I REALLY need to my studio:
UFX (II or +) -------- 4 mic inputs @96kHz
XTC -------------------8 mic inputs @96kHz - ADAT out1 (1 to 4), ADAT out2 (5 to 8)
Basically, I need 12 mic inputs @96kHz with UFX and XTC.
Is it possible, right?

Many thanks!

15 (edited by ramses 2017-06-05 15:56:01)

Re: 48v on UFX II analog inputs (1 to 8)?

yes and yes

UFX+ Handbook p. 113:
"The Fireface UFX+ also supports USB 2, where MADI record and playback channels are no
longer available (MADI can still be accessed via TotalMix FX). Good performance and click-free
operation even at low buffer sizes are indeed possible on current computers. However, using
older computers a simple stereo playback might cause a CPU load of more than 30%."

I still would try to get an USB3 card with a fresco chip, by this
- you can be more relaxed to buy a new machine and
- make your 1st steps with MADI

Also this makes cabling so much easier. Only 2 optical cables for MADI (incl. MIDI over MADI).
Otherwise you need 2 ADAT and 2 MIDI cables.

Get both cards, try them out.
If you are worried about CPU performance of the bigger card with 4 USB3 controller on it,
then simply take the smaller card for half the price. BTW .. You can even use this card later in your PC !
Therefore I would choose 4x with USB3 controller.

http://www.sonnettech.com/PRODUCT/alleg … 3pcie.html
https://www.heise.de/preisvergleich/son … 79334.html
Mac Compatibility
-Mac Pro® (with card slots)
-OS X® 10.8.5+
-macOS Sierra compatible
PC Compatibility
-PC desktop (with PCIe slots; PCIe 2.0 slots recommended)
-Windows® 10, 8, 7
-Windows Server 2016, 2012, 2008
Thunderbolt Compatibility
-Mac or PC via a Thunderbolt-to-PCIe Card Expansion System

http://www.sonnettech.com/product/alleg … 4port.html
https://www.heise.de/preisvergleich/son … 48037.html
Mac Compatibility
-Mac Pro® (with card slots)
-OS X® 10.8.5+
-macOS Sierra compatible
PC Compatibility
-PC desktop (with PCIe slots; PCIe 2.0 slots recommended)
-Windows® 10, 8, 7
-Windows Server 2016, 2012, 2008
Thunderbolt Compatibility
-Mac or PC via a Thunderbolt-to-PCIe Card Expansion System

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: 48v on UFX II analog inputs (1 to 8)?

Ramses, many, many thanks for your support!

I think you've convince me to switch to UFX+. And I'm going to try the USB 4x with USB3 controller, as you suggest. :-)
Anyway, if it fails, the UFX+ is a 2.0 compatible and ADAT possibility until I buy my next machine.
And then, of course, the incredible expandability up to 4 XTC @96kHz with MADI...

By the way, just curious, what's the sample rate you're using on your studio?

Thanks!!

17 (edited by ramses 2017-06-06 05:47:37)

Re: 48v on UFX II analog inputs (1 to 8)?

> Ramses, many, many thanks for your support!

You're welcome, have fun !

I am mostly recording at 44.1/24, rarely 88.2.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: 48v on UFX II analog inputs (1 to 8)?

I've found myself printing and indexing "how to" comments into a secondary manual.

this exchange of ideas and information has been very enlightening and valuable...thank you to you both.  Of course, most of the forum exchanges prove to be equally valuable.

Babyface Pro, UFX+ via Thunderbolt, Win 10, Cubase 9.5 Pro, Asus Z270 i7700k Guitarist-1961

Re: 48v on UFX II analog inputs (1 to 8)?

Good idea ;-) Do you make it public ?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: 48v on UFX II analog inputs (1 to 8)?

Thanks, Knuckled47.

Ramses, I've order the UFX+. Is on his way. :-)

This question is off topic (if you want, I can make a new post):
When I'm mastering and mixing, I should not use UFX EQ and Compressor on the MAIN OUT of Total Mix with my DAW Cubase 9, right? With that, I can create an illusion and double the EQ and comp. used on TM + Cubase, and when I export/bounce to WAV, the EQ and comp. of RFX are gone, right?

(I've already send UFX II, so and can't do this kind of tests).

Tks!

Re: 48v on UFX II analog inputs (1 to 8)?

Simple answer no you shouldn't cause it would indeed not be included in the final mix if you render from cubase. But if you use the eq to correct your speakers/room you should leave it enabled. But you really got to know what you are doing, things are easily messed up big time.
If for some reason you like the TMFX's you can record them to a file with them included.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632

Re: 48v on UFX II analog inputs (1 to 8)?

Thanks, vinark.
Honestly, I was almost sure about that. I just want to hear from you, guys.

Just to inform, I've suggested RME to two producers with studios, here in Portugal.
Continue the excellent work. ;-)
Thanks for all the support.

23 (edited by knuckle47 2017-06-07 17:09:41)

Re: 48v on UFX II analog inputs (1 to 8)?

Ramses, I figured it's all here posted for all to read. The stuff I've printed lies bound next to the UFX+ and Babyface Pro manuals.  Easier for me to find dumb simple stuff without searching a manuals' index. 

Sadly, the stuff I usually need is simple setup, how to get headphones working, ... but escapes me because I don't do it every day.

I still maintain my thoughts about a quick start guide smile but that's just me. So I've started compiling my own. OR...if you or Vincent find yourself near New York City, drop by and spend a week lol

OFF Topic Note:  ran those Passmark tests on the i7700k setup I use.  99th percentile on all

Babyface Pro, UFX+ via Thunderbolt, Win 10, Cubase 9.5 Pro, Asus Z270 i7700k Guitarist-1961