Re: Surprise Surprise - Babyface goes Class Compliant! (Update 12/10/2012)
Anyone having experience with the noname lightning extender offered at amazon? Or is using the lightning-USB CCK with a standard USB extension a reliable choice?
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Lightning extender? Link please!
I ordered one. BTW, your first post contains an error. If you use the Lightning to USB adapter (CCK), then you don't use a USB extension, but a normal USB cable to connect the interface.
Thanks for that hint. And does it work reliable using a USB cord or is the
Lightning extension to be prefered out of any reason?
The lightning extension would remove the connection hanging in the air near the iPad all the time. That is the only reason. With the former Dock CCK the CCK itself was much bigger and only available as clumsy connector directly at the iPad. There it was more obvious that a dock extension would make things more stable and reliable.
Back to the mobile power supply: the 14.400 mAh one is a bit too big for me, so I wanted to get the smaller 10.000 mAh one, also with 9V/12V output. For whatever reason Anker is selling that one, model Anker Astro 3
only in the US, and for some time now in the UK. But not for example in Germany. So I searched more and found that it seems not to be an Anker product, but chinese OEM, and is also available under other names. Here in Germany I got it as XTPower MP-10000:
This one has a few cm less length and around 80 g less weight, so is a bit more easy to transport and to stow away. Running time is currently under test, but will be lots of hours again (see former test with 14400).
The Lightning extension (see above) arrived today - and was quite disappointing.
1. The male connector is too loose compared to Apple's original when inserted into the iPad. It is also much too big.
2. Additionally the cable has double the diameter and weight of the standard cable. Together with the wiggling loose connector it makes the whole thing somewhat fragile. The normal solution, Apple's Lightning to USB (short cable version) plus a standard or a bit longer USB cable, is therefore preferable.
3. AFAIR the Lightning connector includes active electronics which switch some pins depending on which side of the connector is used. That would mean there will never be extensions with less cable diameter, as they have double the number of wires inside (fully passive pass-through).
4. Finally: as usual using such an extension raises the charging times. Charging an iPad 4 with the normal 12 Watts adapter and standard cable results in around 13 Watts power consumption on the AC side. Adding the Lightning extender brings it down to 6.9 Watts. That equals charging the iPad with the standard iPhone charger, needing double the time.
In summary this kind of passive cable extension is way overprized AND doesn't work as good as one hopes. Stay away from it. No comparison to the old Dock extender cables.
Thanks Matthias for that test!
If more distance from BF to iPad is needed as offered by the USB Y-cable supplied with the BF, what max lengths of an USB extension is recommended?
As stated already in this forum, USB extensions should be avoided, as their quality (and functionality) is unpredictable. Chances are bigger that it works the shorter the cable is.
Hi all, can't seem to get babyface to work in CC mode with ipad. Usually I can find solutions on line but have not found anyone experiencing the same problem - so here it is:
Using an ipad 4 (lightening connector) with iOS 6.1.3. RME Babyface snow edition with firmware 204. Apple camera connection kit (lightening to USB).
I can put the babyface into class compliant mode, and also connect to external power supply. When I connect to the ipad, the signal disappears from the headphone out and the speakers, but does not pass through to the babyface. Also when I push play in iTunes, the program just hangs without playing and a few seconds later resets to stop. I understand that the ipad volume should not function when the babyface is connected, but I can still move the volume slider in iTunes. Also the hard volume buttons on the side of the ipad will move the volume slider up and down (though there is no audible effect since the actual signal is not showing up anywhere)
I know that the babyface is in class compliant mode because when I switch it out of CC mode, the ipad shows the 'I don't recognize this device' window. I also know that the external power (from wall plug - not battery pack) is sufficient because when I pull the power the ipad tells me there isn't enough power to run the device.
I tried reinstalling the firmware and also setting the clock to internal 44.1 using fire face USB settings on my Mac. No change in behaviour. I've followed the cable hook up instructions as outlined in the RME PDF instructions and gotten the same result.
With everything connected, I have checked the ipad general settings to confirm that the camera connection kit is being recognized and it is.
Just for the record - the babyface works perfectly with my Mac...
So I'm kind of stuck! If anyone has any ideas or suggestions I'd love to hear from you! Thanks in advance,
I am having the EXACT same issue that John is having with my Babyface/iPad setup...
What's interesting is i, too, have the snow edition, which does not actually come with a y cable, just a regular usb. I had John from Synthax, who was extremely helpful, ship out a usb y cable for me, before I discovered that this setup would not give my ipad sound, no matter how many orders of plugging things in that my music partner and I tried.
We have a big show coming up and would really love to try to figure this out.
As John mentioned, iTunes just stalls and the time in the song stops or never starts at all once the babyface is plugged in. I even tried DLing Traktor, but same issue.
Could it be that the Snow Editions don't work with the CCK/iPad?
Any thoughts? Much appreciated!
The snow edition has a different case, not a different PCB. If your Babyface refuses to work in CC mode it might be required to exchange it. We have never seen that so far.
Thanks so much for the quick response. That would be unfortunate.. if that's the case, how would I go about exchanging my babyface for another one?
Get in touch with Synthax again. It would be nice if they receive your unit directly so that they/we have a chance to examine its behaviour, before this specific unit gets lost in the usual exchange/repair process.
Matthias, okay, I will call Synthax again today, and see if I need to do that.. Also, I just posted my issue on the RME Babyface Facebook page, and a babyface user replied with this:
"I've had similar issues but going into an Android phone. While in normal mode the Babyface takes power from USB, it does not in CC mode. you need a 12v external power source. Documentation on it is quite poor, so it took me a while (and a lot of experimentation) to find the solution. I use and can recommend the Anker external battery packs with 12v line out - it works perfectly! Btw before, the Babyface also turned on, leds were on and it was even recognized! Not working though - I bet it's a power problem. Good luck (and let me know if it worked for you! )"
Do you think I should try purchasing an external battery power pack as he indicated worked for him? I've seen people talking about their seemless set up using an external battery pack.. I found this one online with a 12v line out:
Maybe this would do the job? Or do you think the unit is defective and I should simply exchange it for a new one?
I am wondering now what this is all about. I expect people who jump into a thread claiming to have the EXACT same problem to have read that thread and tried all solutions and hints in it.
Just a few posts up I posted my experience with Anker batteries.
Did you ever try to use the Babyface in the way it is clearly described (nothing poor about it) in the special CC pdf and also in the latest update of the manual which can be downloded from our website?
Usually when connecting an external power supply to the external power supply input of the Babyface and connecting everything in the right order (CCK NOT into the iPad, but to the BF USB first) it will just start to work. Please confirm that you talk about EXACTLY this process not to work.
Just a few posts up I posted my experience with Anker batteries.
Yes, I have tried all of the above, and I have in fact read all of the thread. The only thing I have not tried yet was buying a separate power adapter for the Babyface which is why I was asking about it. Typically, I would imagine all audio interfaces would have a readily available compatible power supply on their site that's able to be purchased. Yes, I have tried exactly this process you mentioned. My music partner and I literally spent over an hour connecting the Babyface and the iPad in every order possible including the one you mentioned. I've spoken with Synthax again, and Jeff mentioned that if plugging an external power supply into the Babyface doesn't help the problem, then I should indeed exchange it. I'll keep you posted on my progress if interested.
For those of you that were interested in the anker (astro 3)with the 9v output as found by M.C, but live in countries where they are hard to get / import, i have found this on ebay:
I've ordered one, so I'll post back wether it's dud or not.
Can you watch the video? is it ok for connecting the babyface like this and how many watts do i need for the aa cable to connect between the ipad charge?cause i live in Turkey!!
For all Linux users out there: http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/hw/rme_babyface
can anyone confirm that bf works in cc mode with windows (vista,7,8?) - I ask because I envisage using this as a soundcard with other folks' pcs, work pcs etc where installation of drivers will be disliked... - the first post in this thread suggests yes, but the pdf manual suggests no....
It doesn't. And that is found here in post 1:
> All further information is found in the pdfs (german and english) that can be downloaded here...
hmm, ok thanks for that - my confusion stems from this line, also in post 1:
"The latter describes a standard that is natively supported by operating systems like Windows, Mac OSX and Linux. No proprietary drivers are required, the device will be directly recognized when CC mode is activated. "
So might I ask why it doesn't work with windows? is there an issue with windows and class compliance?
//edit - ok so i suppose it's windows' lack of UAC2 compliance, fair enough. Wonder why they drag their feet about it so much.
also what then would be the most minimal driver install to allow 2-out functionality (copy mode) on a windows PC? just so that system sounds, media etc could be played.
Our hardware only uses USB 2, so not possible to use it under Windows.
Is it possible to have an update on the use of BabyFace in CC mode with Android phones. Reviewing current history here is not really conclusive.
The reason - I will soon have an iPad Air2, but I am also moving into smartphone territory. I can either let the ghost of Steve Jobs totally rule my life, or go for diversity and take the Android path (the Galaxy Note 4 is high on the list).
luci broadcast software is also available for Android - and is being used here (quite well, I may add) on an LG phone, but only via the TRRS socket. I wonder if anyone has had recent experience using the Babyface in CC mode as the audio interface in similar circumstances.
I do not think there is or will be anything "conclusive". Success may vary from phone to phone, and possibly generation to generation. Other than individual customer reviews or so, there will not likely be specific recommendations or so.
I may have to enlist the aid of my son - 600km away - who has a Note 4 (but no real interest in audio ...).
Update - problem no longer exists.
Said son co-ordinated a family Christmas present of an iPhone 6Plus 64GB. Now wondering why I need an iPad ... ))
Well, it does. TM FX will not run on a iPhone, only on an iPad.
Err ... yes! The main issue was getting high-quality audio into the phone (iOS or Android). I am still working my way into iOS and I haven't an occasion to try input from the BabyFace yet. For my application (remote reporting), I expect I can handle the basics from the control wheel on the BabyFace ... time will tell.
Just for infomation, why will TMFX on iOS run on the iPad but not the iPhone (yes, I know they are different configurations, but is it hardware or iOS)?
It's the missing graphics/surface which needs to be made completely new for the small screen.
Understood. Thanks, MC!
On Linux, Lubuntu 14.10 (Ubuntu with LXDE desktop, Kernel 3.16.0, ALSA 1.0.28 and PulseAudio) the RME Babyface works "plug and play", when the Babyface is set to 'Class compliant mode.
That is, the two analog inputs and two analog outputs are available as stereo ins and outs for programs that "talk" PulseAudio like Audacity and the usual media players.
Just what I needed (for now), thus I am happy.
RME's manual states that ALSA had a bug "at this time" without stating when that was true. (Nor does the manual state a date for latest update og publication). The referred bug mentioned in the mail thread at
http://www.mail-archive.com/alsa-user@l … 28901.html
seems to be fixed in Linux kernel version 3.4.29 according to this list of changes:
https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel … Log-3.4.29
which was released in February 2013.
When searching via Google, as I did after reading that note in the manual about the ALSA bug, this old thread appears. It seems the bug is fixed, and ALSA is no longer a showstopper.
Hello again -could anyone let me know whether the babyface in class-compliant mode can work ok with a PPC mac? (I'm assuming that there never were drivers for PPC for babyface, if that's wrong let me know!)
Has anyone tried that with happy results?
Back to the quesion of powering an iPad while BF/BFPro is being used in Core Compliant mode.
It is designated as a USB3 device but they note that the new Ipad Pro 9.7" only works in USB2.
The adpater end appears to have USB3 conector and a micro USB which I presume allows for an externa power supply, and appears to be both for the iPad and the connected USB device
I haven't definitively checked whether a USB3 socket is totally compatible with a USB2 cable, but it would seem logical.
Is this new adapter an addition to the cpapbilities of the BF/BFPro?
Seems so. Charging problem in Class Compliant mode solved...
OK. I now have a "Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter" and have gotten round to trying it out. Good news and bad news (of sorts).
First, good news: it is indeed now possible to use a USB interface and supply power to the iPad, via a charger or USB 5V battery pack, connected to the Lightning port on the adaptor. And indeed the iPad and BabyFace do seem to communicate as intended.
Now not so good: Despite the statement in the User Guide for their adaptor that it will "charge your camera battery while you import photos" (note that it says nothing about charging the iPad), it appears it will NOT supply power to the BabyFace, or at least not enough to turn on.
I cannot find a specification for the maximum power that can be supplied via the USB port. I am also assuming that the USB 3 port will actually supply power via a USB 2 cable (I tried both a bog standard USB A/USB B cable and the USB cable originally supplied with the BabyFace). Ho hum!
However, a satisfactory result was obtained by using a 10,000mAh dual-port USB battery (max. 2.1A), with the one port connected to the Lightning input on the adaptor, and the other for the "power" connector on the original BF USB y-cable.
So we now have a way of battery-powering both the iPad and the BabyFace while USB recording. But it still would be interesting to find out what the limitation is on also powering the BF via the adaptor.
(ps. Powering my BF through its external power supply connector is no longer an option, as the power convertor seems to have failed - and the only cure is replacing to whole curcuit board at a cost greater than the present value of the BF. Probably better to spend any such money on a new BFPro .... makes everybody happy??)
What you call bad news is IMHO quite obvious and clear. Apple does not allow charging of non-MFi products. The new adapter wil not give more current to the audio interface than the old one did, and that is most probably far below 100 mA, just to make sure the unit's USB phy is working correctly.
So my summary would have been: 100% success!
Maybe some may consider my expectations were a little too high.
But the adaptor instructions do say it will charge the (still or movie) camera's battery while connected. Does this mean only MFi cameras (if indeed there are any that carry such a designation)? Can the adaptor can tell over a USB connection?
But - bottom line - I now have a battery powered rig of BabyFace and iPad that can originate a remote broadcast over a period of a few hours. So indeed, success.
(ps. the battery - a Romoss Solo 5, www.romoss.com - can apparently be charged and discharged simultaneously, so it also can act as a UPS on really long jobs where mains is available.)
Hi. Will the original Babyface work with iPhone 6s Plus as a 2 in 2 out interface?
confirming, the PDF manual in post 1 of this thread says
"Any Apple iPad with at least iOS 5. iPhone and iPod Touch can not be used.
That was 2012. iPhones can be used since iOS 7.
I just picked up a used blue Babyface 1 to use with my new iPad (2017 5th generation) 128GB. I have the Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter and I'm getting this message after plugging in in the exact order specified early in this thread. What should I try next?
You have the unit in CC mode and a power supply connected?
You have the unit in CC mode and a power supply connected?
Whoops! My bad, I didn't hold the buttons. Just tried and now all seems well. Reading the instructions fully would have helped... Thank you Jeff!
You have the unit in CC mode and a power supply connected?
Well I spoke too soon. I can't get any audio output in CC mode. The meters show audio from the iPad but nothing comes out of the headphones out even when it's cranked. I tested this babyface on my MacBook Pro and I do get audio out of the headphones with the Mac, just not in CC mode. I checked and it has firmware 223. Is there anything I may be missing or should I send this back?
Did you install the TotalMix FX app on the iPad? That should show you what is going on. Phones out is 3/4 so if the app is playing out of 1/2 you would need to route that signal to Phones 3/4. Or set the Babyface to 2 in / 2 out mode, also done in the TMFX app settings.
And just like that, problem solved. Thank you for helping this humble noob!
I'm coming from Mac+Duet and I suspected there might have been some depth to wade through getting an iPad/Babyface system going. Thanks for making it easy Jeff!