Topic: syncronization ?

Hi i am having some minor glitch crack and beeps randomly . It is not my buffers , they are 2048 and i have 96gb ram and freeze most my tracks and my 12 cores hyper threaded are basically doing nothing . I have tried everything from turning off hyperthreading to disabling drivers to bare bone . Its a timing issue i am positive

Word Clock : It is a synchronization between RME Babyface and Daw /Platinum . THis Has to be the problem !

So in platinum there is a couple  Synchronization settings :
1) Trigger & Freewheel (best when sound card has a word clock ) 
2) Clock Source : Audio ( timing is determined by the computers sound card )


I am wondering 2 things :

A) the clock mode in fireface : should it be set to internal
B) am i going about this the right way > platinum word clock sync to babyface or should it be other way around
C) should i get a external word clock and connect via adat or spdif will this be the best solution .


Summary is i know this is a sync issue and it has been with me for years and i have had enough of it i need to get rid of it can someone please help me . I am thinking of hiring different audio units to see if it will solve my problem and then buy the one that works but i know this unit is more than suitable there is some setting that is making the random glitch/pop. i know what buffer glitches are and drop outs are and this is different just moving midi notes around in piano roll view can sometimes cause these minute clicks/pops . what could it be !

Re: syncronization ?

There is no such thing as "synchronization between RME Babyface and DAW", and Word Clock is only used for synchroniing hardware devices to each other. There is no Word Clock in (Logic) Platinum or any other DAW.
You have some kind of system performance problem here, but not a "sync issue".


Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Regards
Daniel Fuchs
RME

Re: syncronization ?

What is platinum ?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: syncronization ?

ramses wrote:

What is platinum ?

Hi

Sorry daw = sonar platinum


I want to say that it is not a hardware problem I have had sonar and the same Babyface for 3 years during that time I went from a Alienware laptop to a 6 core desktop computer to currently a ( z800 workstation / 96gb 1333mhz ram / Samsung 950pro NvME main win 10 drive + plugins  / LSI megaraid 12tb raid 0 consists of 6x2tb hdd for the speed factor which holds all my samples . This Random glitch-pop-click issue has been exactly the same with all 3 computes . It must be a setting in sonar I believe so I am currently trying to get assistance with the advanced settings  AUD.ini file because this aud.ini file has some ! settings with NO "What it Does " .
Anyway the forum over ther like here is amazing so my plan of attack is to find out all of the advanced settings / what they do exactly then go through each one .

In the mean time I also need to look at everything my rme Babyface driver can do in win 10 , so my next step Here is to find out :

When I " enable " MMCSS on my fire face settings > about tab
What does this do exactly ? Does tell win 10 to allow the RME ASIO DRIVER to have high priority ? This anwser should be yes ! If so what profile does it use exactly ?

Here are the REGEDIT Profiles :
Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Multimedia\SystemProfile\Tasks
   Audio
    Capture
    Distribution
    Games
    Playback
    Pro Audio
    Window Manager
Once i know what MMCSS profile RME uses i can make my DAW/Platinum use the same profile and tweek the profile !!!!

Sorry to ask the question twice but to summarise :
Can u help me with what Win 10 /MMCSS profile / does RME ASIO DRIVER use /
when the MMCSS is ( ticked/enabled ) on the fireface settings page . It must use one of those profiles but how to find out exactly which one is the million dollar ?

5 (edited by ramses 2017-06-25 10:32:23)

Re: syncronization ?

IMHO reasons for such pops and clicks are more to search in other areas
based on my personal experience and based on what I read on RME and other recording forums.

To put some typical examples:

Hardware:
- BIOS settings suboptimal (energy saving, USB settings)
- Mainboard design / chipset
- CPU / GPU design: using Grafic Card inside of the CPU (Intel HD Graphics)
- Not required HW not turned off in the BIOS (i.e. internal sound chip WiFi, Bluetooth)
- How the USB ports are organized internally
- Which USB controller is being used (i.e. USB3, see UFX+ manual)
- Other connected USB devices influencing each other
- On which USB port you plug the device, an USB2 device might run better on a different USB3 port in USB2 compatible mode

Software:
- Immature OS (-> Win10, always changing target my bad uprade policy)
- Internal OS changes after major or even minor release upgrade (Windows and Apple)
- Misbehaving Driver (-> evaluate with LatencyMon)
- Driver killing Harddisk throughput (Intel iaStor driver in my case)
- Drivers allocate CPU resources although they are not required (-> deactivate not required HW in the BIOS)
- impact of certain graphic drivers (eventually a driver update can help=
- Windows settings (energy saving, ..)
- too much load on the system (to many background activities)

Combinations of errors:
- certain combination of HW and Drivers does not perform
- certain combination of connected USB/Fw/ etc external devices does not perform

MMCSS I would regard as "don't care" in this context.
With synchronization this has nothing to do as already made clear by RME support.

See here what i.e. happened to me, not so easy to troubleshoot problem.
Was more or less an occasion / intuition that I found the root cause for my problems:
https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=20296

I think with your questions in regards to ASIO/MMCSS you are running into a direction
where I never heard that somebody fixed an issue in the area of pops and clicks.

Whats IMHO from you is missing still is an easy to reproduce szenario, when this happens
and a description of surrounding conditions, i.e.:
Does this happen to you only under a real workload?
How does your project look like when you experience this.
How many tracks, VSTs, any virtual instruments in use, which ones ?
Are you working with the DAW or does it simply play back ?

I ask because my problems with the Lenovo Laptop (see link above) also happened,
when the system was under zero load. It was even only a pure playback of a FLAC file
with MusicBee player, using the RME ASIO driver (as MusicBee supports ASIO drivers).

And it happened only when I had in Firefox a webpage loaded and then turned the
scroll wheel on the mouse slightly up and own.
This brought me initially to the idea, that it might have to do with Graphics.
Then I had the idea to use the other GPU in my Laptop, as it had 2, Intel Graphics inside CPU and
a dedicated additional nVidia GPU.
When moving Firefox execution to the nVidia GPU my problems were gone.

So ... this is the reason, why I think its worth that you re-thing and look to
- surrounding conditions
- simplify the error condition to something easily repeatable / reproduceable
which might bring you sometimes to even other ideas and maybe to the root cause of a problem and a solution.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: syncronization ?

Another thing.

Sometimes I read, that too high ASIO buffer sizes might also be counter productive.
Did you also try smaller ones and do you notice a change then ?

I tell you this, because I made an experiment with UFX+ (USB3) and RayDAT (PCIe):
http://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/inde … cks-de-en/

I could playback 400 tracks in Cubase on my machine. This took nearly all the memory of my 32 GB DRAM.
And this was possible with a buffersize of 32 ASIO buffers no matter whether I took an USB3 or PCIe based RME product.

So I think that something is very wrong with your PC/installation if even with no CPU load there are clicks and pops.

I could also think of that maybe the CPU load was not so high, because the whole processing might be blocked
on driver level when the CPU is eventually waiting for i/o.
When troubleshooting Servers its a known fact to look for "wait for i/o" issues ... if one component does not
perform (be it driver, setup, load problems) then one subsystem can block the whole processing and the CPU
has nothing to do ...

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

7 (edited by ramses 2017-06-25 10:52:52)

Re: syncronization ?

Too sum up.

I would start evaluation completely new.
Start simple.

Do you also have problems with clicks and pops when only playing back a stereo FLAC file with MusicBee
when using RMEs ASIO driver for the Babyface.
Check whether Browsing the Internet brings pops and clocks.
Test whether all possible Buffersizes trigger or mitigate an issue.

If this doesnt bring some reproduceable results, then use your DAW.
Create a simple project.
Playback of a WAV file, nothing else.
Try different ASIO buffersizes.
Add VSTs or other stuff one by the other, in between always experiment with all ASIO buffersizes.
Look where problems do exactly start.

This way you can narrow it down piece by piece I think. Ensure to use latest drivers and Firmware of Babyface.

This approach is based by a strategy to take simply the assumptions

a) with such a small workload nothing bad shall happen no matter which ASIO buffersize you choose
    and it should also be possible to browse the internet and to visit sites with much grafic information
   or many objects on their page. usually I take heise.de for that.

b) if the RME product would be so bad, then the forums (not only RME) would be full of complaints
    and RME wouldnt have the credibility in the market to have the best combination of
    hardware design and high performance / quality drivers. In fact you see only rare complaints
    and its - based on experience - much more likely that the problem is the PC (be it windows or Apple).

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: syncronization ?

Thanks for those details quite scary that it could be so many things do I am glad you have pointed me to do simple start tests to firstly try and identify if this happens outside the daw which would then help narrow the problem down .I will do the things you have said and report back to u by Friday.

The MMCSS is not to do with this problem but rather to tie the rme driver and sonar together . You see in sonar when you enable MMCSS you can choose the win 10 MMCSS profile ( currently Pro Audio - but I can make sonar use any profile ) to elevate so if I know which profile rme uses then I will point sonar to the same profile . I believe this is important though nothing to do with my clicks .

I know rme is the best and particularly there drivers are the best in the buisness I don't question that . I will always even if my unit was dogegy upgrade to another rme device for the rest of my life . I have put up with this problem over 3 pcs over 3 years and it's time to fix it and move on and I believe it is a advanced setting in sonar .

I will get back to u soon with some results to your simple start : troubleshooting suggestions and if you can find out the profile MMCSS profile rme used in win10 it will be appreciated .

Thanks