Topic: TotalMix FX beginner question

Using my UFX+ with Cubase pro 9.02 in DAW mode and so far have had my greatest success recording gypsy jazz style guitar. Mixes all take place in Cubase right now.   For the last "X" months of reading and trying to learn TMFX I had to switch to daw mode simply to get some progress as it was just not cooperating with me the way my brain does.

I'm just starting to get a slight understanding of TMFX and need to verify a simple point.  Is the middle row of faders only a representation of what is coming back from Cubase?  Does any of it have something to do with routing or headphones. 

If it does, I don't know why or even what is clicked to make that happen.....yet!

HERE IS MY CURRENT SOLO ROUTINE:

I monitor each track to record the next track thru the headphones
I try to mix my tracks initially with headphones
I do use two sets of monitor speakers
I temporarily don't use midi but have it all here waiting ( Godin and iGuitar guitars and midi keyboard )

Every Few Months
I have about 5 guys (all older than 70) and we get together to jam mostly jazz so for that, I just setup mics and try to get lucky...which seems ok some days.

As always, I appreciate any input and help .... I hope to EVENTUALLY using TMFX for what it really is

Albert

Babyface Pro, UFX+ via Thunderbolt, Win 10, Cubase 9.5 Pro, Asus Z270 i7700k Guitarist-1961

Re: TotalMix FX beginner question

Hi !

The middle rows are all the softwares playbacks (daws, standalone synth, OS and so on...).
(The bottom rows are the physical outs, the top the physical inputs)

You can route any middle and top rows to phsysical outputs. Be sure to be in submix view and clic on an output to do so.

Best.

Re: TotalMix FX beginner question

Albert, was my guide not helpful for you ?
http://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/inde … rnal-equi/

In one figure you get the basic overview how TM FX integrates into Windows.

http://www.tonstudio-forum.de/index.php/Attachment/1988-TotalMix-Diagram-Overview-Signal-Flow-jpg/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

Re: TotalMix FX beginner question

Thank you elka... this moves me another step up the ladder.

Ramses, your guide is printed, highlighted, and bound in a wire binder I had made up along with many other great queries made on the forum.

For any reason, I get into my room... the desk is set with guitar picks, notes, a mile of cables, a rack of equipment, and a giant pile of apprehension.  I load up Cubase and the empty page pops up.

At this point, I click the icon for TMFX on the third monitor and my mind goes blank.

This is a touch of unfamiliarity due to limited daily exposure and some age.  I know for a fact if I was able to use it daily even for a short time each day, it would make a huge difference.  I had my MOTU 896HD for 12 yrs and I had a bit more time. My wife watches my grandson daily and he is now at the age of 3 and looks for me nearly every hour he is awake and I am home.  I cannot turn that away as you know it is only a short time before he has other interests.

In Daw mode, it really recorded wonderfully. I have several 1930' and 40's swing and jazz songs that have gone on to MP3 formats and cd that I've given to a few friends who I play with and of course, my 88 yr old mother....who just loved hearing songs of her era and that it's her son playing it.

I think I will just need to create a wall flow chart that can guide me along the setup for routing until I use it more frequently and have it down to a science.  I believe I need to develop a plan for routing using send and effects.  My recording is all dry to Cubase.

In listening to your SoundCloud, I hear so many great effects and EXCELLENT performances.  Know this much....I have made acceptable progress in my use... I need to go a lot farther as I know the software a so much to offering I am anxious to take advantage of that.  After all, it makes me sound even better  hmm

Babyface Pro, UFX+ via Thunderbolt, Win 10, Cubase 9.5 Pro, Asus Z270 i7700k Guitarist-1961

5 (edited by ramses 2017-07-19 15:26:12)

Re: TotalMix FX beginner question

You say that DAW mode went "nicer" for you, so lets start to talk about similarities 1st:

In both TotalMix FX modes ("DAW" and "FULL") all input signals are passed through to the DAW inputs.
So if you record something, then all inputs will safely arrive at your DAW to record stuff for all inputs
that you "armed" for recording (hit the red record buttons per track and then hitting record).

As prerequisite you only need to take care in Cubase
- to select the proper ASIO driver and
- in VST connection to add all required Inputs and Output channels (or all if you want) and save these settings in Inputs and Outputs, so that you can access these settings quicker for future recordings

As easy as this DAW mode is, I personally do not like it.
Why ? It doesn't meet my requirements:
1. I am not only working with Cubase. I also need control of routing audio when not using Cubase but Appliations in Windows with Audio Output, i.e.: Youtube, Music Player, Video Editing program.
2. I need to control Durec in TotalMix FX, thats only possible in TotalMix FX full mode.

You say:
> "I load up Cubase and the empty page pops up. At this point, I click the icon for TMFX
> on the third monitor and my mind goes blank."

1st of all you should create a template in Cubase which always loads the proper VST-connections for inputs and outputs.
1. Create a new empty project.
2. Name the channels in VST connections to make all easier to identify ("AN1 SM57", "AN2 XYZ", AN1/2 Main Out) so that you see spoken names which makes it easier to select the proper input and output channels in the Cubase project view.
3. Prepare for each input a track of its own and select proper input channel and to route it to i.e. AN1/2 Main Out.
Save this as a template. You can modify it any time for your demands.

Lets assume you recorded now something. The routing in Cubase goes now to your VST Connection OUT "Analog 1+2"
This refers to the TM Playback channels (middle row) AN1/2.
Now if you playback you see the output on TM playback channel AN1/2 in the middle row.
Now you need to bring this playback to a Hardware Output with either Monitors or Phones behind it.
If you didnt assign yet Output channels for the TM FX control room, then please do so now.
Lets assume for a while your Control Room assignments are:
Main Out -> Analog 1/2
Phones 1 -> Analog 9/10
Now make a submix for Main out and Phones and store them to snapshot 1 and 2.
1. Click to Main Out channel in the control room
2. slowly raise the fader of SW Playback Channel 1/2 (middle row) where the Output of Cubase arrives
    eventually you need to lower the volume of Main Out in TotalMix Control Room (base row right)
3. If you reach pleasent listening volume then save this routing and volume levels to snapshot 1
4. Rename Snapshot 1 to i.e. "Main Out"
Do the same now to create such a routing for phones
5. Click to "Phones1" channel in the control room
6. slowly raise the fader of SW Playback Channel 1/2 (middle row) where the Output of Cubase arrives
    eventually you need to lower the volume of Main Out in TotalMix Control Room (base row right)
7. If you reach pleasent listening volume then save this routing and volume levels to snapshot 2
8. Rename Snapshot 2 to i.e. "Phones 2"

Now you can easily
1. select a Cubase Project from your template with proper VST connections and recording tracks and routing enabled
2. easily switch in TM FX between Snapshot "Main Out" and "Phones1" depending on whether you want to record or listen via Main Monitors or phones.

For Windows applications do the following:
1. In the RME Driver Settings Dialog create 2 WDM Devices for ANalog 1/2 and 9/10
2. In the TAB "Speaker" select Analog 1+2
3. In Windows "sound" settings set "Speakers RME UFX+ USB 3.0" to be the standard output device

So all Windows Applications will send now their sound also to TotalMix PlayBack Channel 1/2, same as Cubase does.

This means also for all Windows Sounds you can use TotalMix FX Snapshots "Main Out" and "Phones1" to select,
whether you want to hear Sound on Monitors or Phones.

If I were you I would store also
- Snapshot 1 "Main out" to the Standalone Profil 1
- Snapshot 2 "Phones 1" to the Standalone Profile 2
of your UFX+. Then you have these 2 basic routings to phones also available in standalone mode, when no computer is connected to UFX+.

Save these TotalMix settings also to "Snapshot" and "Workplace"
-> Save Snapshot as "UFX+ routing"
-> Save Workspace as "UFX+ routing"
-> Workspace Quick Select -> Select Slot 1 -> Save current workspace as "UFX+ routing"
-> Workspace Quick Select -> Select Slot 2 -> Save current workspace as "UFX+ routing (backup)".
Its always good to have a backup workspace, shall you mess things up in Slot 1.

At this point you should connect your ARC USB and be happy to not require the 3rd monitor necessarily,
althogh I find it very comfortably, I have only one screen.
Then by pushing SNAP1 or SNAP2 key you will listen sound through either Monitors or Phones.

You will find out after some time, that it would be nicer to hear what you record by Mics directly inside of TotalMix FX
- to get really ZERO LATENCY recording -
so that you hear i.e. your recorded Mic Signal directly by zero latency monitoring of TotalMix
instead of having the signal to go via USB to the DAW back through USB and then to your ears.

Well then you simply start with Snapshot 1 (to Monitors)
and in "submix mode" you click again in TM FX control room to Main Out.
Now you additionally raise the faders of the Hardware Inputs where your Mics are connected to
and do a very nice mix of Mic recording and Cubase Playback (eventually a backing track).
Save this now as Snapshot 3 (i.e. "Main ZeroL")
The same you can perform now for the phones1 Output in TM FX Control room
and save this to Snapshot 4 (i.e. "Ph1 ZeroL").

Snapshot 4 will be the best while recording, to get no feedback loop.
And will be most comfortably, because you might have a backing track in cubase, play it back while your record,
as you listen to the backing track though Phones1 you will play your guitar and record without noticeably latency.
And it wont produce any feedback as nothing goes via Monitors to the Speakers.

Save all (Snapshot, Workspace, Quick Workplace Select, Standalone profile of UFX+ #3 and #4.

This is so generic now, that you can concentrate of making recordings based on a good Cubase Template
and a couble of TM FX snapshots and eventually also ARC USB.
Then you do not need to think about anything anymore and simply use the environment.
Then you also wont get stressed anymore by screen number 3 with TM FX on it because you have all
the routings there available in 4 Snapshots that you require.

Easier is not possible !

Set in preferences that TM FX settings will override device settings, then you dont get a message box on startup.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

Re: TotalMix FX beginner question

Ramses,   I cannot thank you enough for that highly detailed description and step-by-step guide in the above post. While I know about doing some of these processes the actual procedure for getting them done escaped me for sometime. The concept of having everything pre-established as a template will go a very long way in overcoming the first session settings.

I guess when I refer DAW  mode as being better, I mean that it was a simple order of steps to go directly into Cubase then to try to be sure my routing and signals were correctly set up through total mix.

I am taking your guidance a step further by using it as my new "flow chart". As all of my playing and recording so far has  been only dry guitar tracks, my next few steps will be to add the keyboard to trigger some of the available Cubase VST's.  That should be a real party. As I mentioned your sound cloud files are really really good and I have enjoyed listening to them over and over again.

There are several regrets I have in failing to maintain a higher level of understanding in music and recording over the last 25 or 30 years. I never realized or assumed now that I am older I would still be playing guitar and enjoying the heck out of it. I still remember the introduction of midi and my purchase of a Roland TR 505 drum machine  and how all I was ever able to do with it was to tap on the pads for drum sound. That little white plastic box is still here and still works ha ha. It seemed very complicated then and I blew it off as saying it would never last so why bother learning it.

Once again.....thank you for standing over my shoulder and walking me through this process ....it is a call above and beyond and I certainly appreciate it.

Babyface Pro, UFX+ via Thunderbolt, Win 10, Cubase 9.5 Pro, Asus Z270 i7700k Guitarist-1961

7 (edited by ramses 2017-07-20 05:25:10)

Re: TotalMix FX beginner question

Thanks that you enjoy my music.

Perform the above things step by step. There is no need for stress or hurry.

After you have done it you will get the hang out of it to easily fine tune it for your demand wink

If you do not require all the MADI or even ADAT channels its even possible to hide them
in your TM FX Window by either using Layout Presets or Options->Channel Layout.
This might give you better overview.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

8 (edited by knuckle47 2017-07-21 03:40:37)

Re: TotalMix FX beginner question

Yes,   I have all of them hidden and don't believe I am likely to use them in the near future. 

You recordings have a very well blended mix where needed and
Strong highlights when those leads build. 

In my entire musical life, there was little interest in recording but then in the 1960s no teenager could afford a decent reel to reel deck or mixer. Our bands were more in love with the next fuzzbox or wah peddle.and that was easily out of reach. Today the sophistication in simple equipment can make very professional recordings in a bedroom.  So I never bothered until I made some extra money and tried to go for it but had zero previous understanding of this new stuff. 

My first computer was a VIC 20 and eventually added a cassette tape storage device... no recording on that one... smile

Babyface Pro, UFX+ via Thunderbolt, Win 10, Cubase 9.5 Pro, Asus Z270 i7700k Guitarist-1961