1 Topic by marcobarbaro (edited by marcobarbaro 2017-10-23 09:23:35)

  • Registered: 2017-10-22
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Topic: Big problem with Fireface 802, crackling noise even with 2048 sample

Hello, my name is Marco and I wrote from Italy.

I recently acquired a Fireface 802 (used with 2 years) and started using it. Updated with latest driver 1.0.99.0 and firmware  revision 13.

My computer is:
Windows 8.1 64bit
AMD fx8350
nvidia gtx970
motherboard ASUS sabertooth 990 r2.0
16GB DDR3 Ram
sandisk 480gb ssd

The interface works well with the Totalmix and listening to music through Foobar with ASIO output.


Under Cubase 5.1 32bit there are some projects which present a big problem. Even a simple project with 4 plugins (2 eq,  reverb, Waves L2) even non reproducing audio, if you open the Fireface Usb Settings you see the errors going up and up. Changing the latency even at 2048 samples do not have any effect.

I will post a video in a few minutes.

I tried removing gtx970 audio drivers, motherboard realtek audio drivers, changing wdm devices to 0, have no effect.
Tried different usb cables, tried different usb ports.

I have a particularly heavy project (with tons of plugins) which refuse to play at any latency.
But on the other soundcard an Audient iD22 usb2.0 I have no problem, just set the highest sample and works.


[Edit......]



Does my Fireface have a problem?
thanks for support
marco barbaro
italy

  • Registered: 2017-10-22
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Re: Big problem with Fireface 802, crackling noise even with 2048 sample

here's the video showing the problem:

https://youtu.be/EiYj2wMgdTE

  • Registered: 2017-10-22
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Re: Big problem with Fireface 802, crackling noise even with 2048 sample

seems like a overheating problem, shows up after a couple of hours of use.

4 Reply by MC

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Re: Big problem with Fireface 802, crackling noise even with 2048 sample

Looks like the USB in your computer has a big problem to support 30 channels of audio I/O in isochronous streaming format. Get an additional PCIe USB card and the problems are most probably gone.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

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5 Reply by marcobarbaro (edited by marcobarbaro 2017-10-23 07:00:05)

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Re: Big problem with Fireface 802, crackling noise even with 2048 sample

Hy mc thanks for replying. The motherboard is a ASUS SABERTOOTH 990FX R2.0

The strange thing is it usually works very well for  an hour even at very low latencies. Then starts to crackle and stop working without any change from me. Like in a second moment it can't handle anymore what it did in the last hour.


I now got the same problem on the laptop.

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Re: Big problem with Fireface 802, crackling noise even with 2048 sample

This is similar to mine problem

https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=21436

7 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2017-10-23 07:37:11)

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Re: Big problem with Fireface 802, crackling noise even with 2048 sample

MC wrote:

Looks like the USB in your computer has a big problem to support 30 channels of audio I/O in isochronous streaming format. Get an additional PCIe USB card and the problems are most probably gone.

This card works great for an UFX+ and should be ok also for USB2 devices.

Its your decision whether you buy the better product with a dedicated USB3 controller behind the port.
So that at the 4 devices can be connected at full speed and do not interfere with each other.
The cheaper one has only one USB controller for 4 ports.

https://www.heise.de/preisvergleich/son … 79334.html

For Win7 you need drivers, they work very good. For Win10 its said that Windows brings the drivers already.

This needs a x4 socket, 4 PCIe lanes are requires. You need to look whether your board supports this.
It can also be any x8 or x16 socket.
With x16 sockets careful whether they are independend from the socket where your GPU is plugged in.
Not that your GPU gets only x8 PCIe lanes of all sudden instead of x16 when plugging in such an add-on
card into the inappropriate x16 socket.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: Big problem with Fireface 802, crackling noise even with 2048 sample

Ok but what you think about the problem showing up after one hour of use and not from the start?

If you are right then it should crackle always and not only after a bit of use.

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Re: Big problem with Fireface 802, crackling noise even with 2048 sample

I want to be clear: the interface works perfectly for an hour or less of time. Sounds good, have no pops, works as it should also with sample 48.


Then it starts first with small pops. Then more pops and cracks, then starts distorting at all and stops working. Changing then the latency get the sound back but starts cracking immediately and stops again.


So it is difficult for me thinking that my usb chipset can't handle 30 channels I/O... because it does.. for an hour. sad

10 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2017-10-23 11:51:17)

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Re: Big problem with Fireface 802, crackling noise even with 2048 sample

If you follow this forum regulary, then you would know that we saw already enough other scenarios
where an USB controller fails for other reasons than "maybe smth. like heat" or because its working for some hours:
- bogus ASMEDIA USB3 chipset / not supported chipset
- other connected USB devices interfering other USB connections

So if you disconnected all other USB devices which you do not require (except keyboard and mouse)
and IF you tried already ALL USB2 and USB3 USB ports and the situation does not become better,
then the only solution is to try something different, to narrow it down by "trial and error" if this cures the issue or not.
If not you can send HW back at any time nowadays .. so wheres the risk, simply do it that we get progress in this.

Quality PCIe USB3 card, see link.
USB2 I wouldnt take anymore as it fills one precious PCIe socket.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: Big problem with Fireface 802, crackling noise even with 2048 sample

ramses wrote:

If you follow this forum regulary, then you would know that we saw already enough other scenarios
where an USB controller fails for other reasons than "maybe smth. like heat" or because its working for some hours:
- bogus ASMEDIA USB3 chipset / not supported chipset
- other connected USB devices interfering other USB connections

So if you disconnected all other USB devices which you do not require (except keyboard and mouse)
and IF you tried already ALL USB2 and USB3 USB ports and the situation does not become better,
then the only solution is to try something different, to narrow it down by "trial and error" if this cures the issue or not.
If not you can send HW back at any time nowadays .. so wheres the risk, simply do it that we get progress in this.

Quality PCIe USB3 card, see link.
USB2 I wouldnt take anymore as it fills one precious PCIe socket.

thanks ramses. sorry its my first time here, first day as rme user.

I have nothing connected to the pc except keyboard and mouse and already tried all usb2 and usb3 ports with different cables.

I find it strange because my friend always used rme on windows with usb ports and never had problems (even on a netbook with an atom processor)

12 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2017-10-23 12:43:35)

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Re: Big problem with Fireface 802, crackling noise even with 2048 sample

marcobarbaro wrote:
ramses wrote:

If you follow this forum regulary, then you would know that we saw already enough other scenarios
where an USB controller fails for other reasons than "maybe smth. like heat" or because its working for some hours:
- bogus ASMEDIA USB3 chipset / not supported chipset
- other connected USB devices interfering other USB connections

So if you disconnected all other USB devices which you do not require (except keyboard and mouse)
and IF you tried already ALL USB2 and USB3 USB ports and the situation does not become better,
then the only solution is to try something different, to narrow it down by "trial and error" if this cures the issue or not.
If not you can send HW back at any time nowadays .. so wheres the risk, simply do it that we get progress in this.

Quality PCIe USB3 card, see link.
USB2 I wouldnt take anymore as it fills one precious PCIe socket.

thanks ramses. sorry its my first time here, first day as rme user.

I have nothing connected to the pc except keyboard and mouse and already tried all usb2 and usb3 ports with different cables.

I find it strange because my friend always used rme on windows with usb ports and never had problems (even on a netbook with an atom processor)

RME is brilliant with its drivers in many aspects and regards ..
BUT ... all this does not prevent you from getting a HW where not all is so shiney like with the PCs of your friend.

If you need a rock solid reliable setup, then you need to get a tested turnkey system for Audio.

If this is too expensive for you, then you need to live with the rest risk, that you might stumble over a system,
where the combination of HW or the mainboard and what not does not deliver performance as you expect.

For normal application its not an issue, as they are not time critical.
But audio processing is time critical.
The problem is that Windows and Apple are both no real time operating systems by nature.
So usually it works if you get good HW and a good combination of it and good drivers and maybe on top also good BIOS settings and eventually on top also an optimization of Windows itself .. etc etc Depends on your project workloads etc etc what VSTs you use etc etc it depends on  many things.

Usually it runs well, but pls dont argue simply with OTHER PCs .. its about YOUR PC which has the issues.
LUCKILY .. we talk only about a few PCs that have for strange reasons issues, otherwise the Foreum would
be full of messages like this. And if you think a while about how many customers RME has .. its really only a
tiny fraction that pop up here in the forum with problems, where most of the HW related can be solved like this.

If this hurts you in terms of work give PC to a HW guru if you know a good one, which best alsl knows about
the requirements of audio processing...

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: Big problem with Fireface 802, crackling noise even with 2048 sample

ramses wrote:

Usually it runs well, but pls dont argue simply with OTHER PCs .. its about YOUR PC which has the issues.
LUCKILY .. we talk only about a few PCs that have for strange reasons issues, otherwise the Foreum would
be full of messages like this
...
If this hurts you in terms of work give PC to a HW guru if you know a good one, which best alsl knows about
the requirements of audio processing...

I already have tweaked the OS to work as a DAW, I'm a sound engineer and I record classical concerts from years. I even do not have internet connection and print spooler on my desktop unit.
and it's a 2000€ pc not the 150€ netbook which my friend use to record live concerts with his UFX.


I have a audient id22 usb2.0 interface - which I'm using with a 8 channel mic preamp via ADAT - which have 10in/14out and it works flawlessly in the same conditions that the RME 802 can't, even at lowest sample latency with all channels recording simultaneously and vst plugins running realtime on the pc.

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Re: Big problem with Fireface 802, crackling noise even with 2048 sample

marcobarbaro wrote:
ramses wrote:

Usually it runs well, but pls dont argue simply with OTHER PCs .. its about YOUR PC which has the issues.
LUCKILY .. we talk only about a few PCs that have for strange reasons issues, otherwise the Foreum would
be full of messages like this
...
If this hurts you in terms of work give PC to a HW guru if you know a good one, which best alsl knows about
the requirements of audio processing...

I already have tweaked the OS to work as a DAW, I'm a sound engineer and I record classical concerts from years. I even do not have internet connection and print spooler on my desktop unit.
and it's a 2000€ pc not the 150€ netbook which my friend use to record live concerts with his UFX.


I have a audient id22 usb2.0 interface - which I'm using with a 8 channel mic preamp via ADAT - which have 10in/14out and it works flawlessly in the same conditions that the RME 802 can't, even at lowest sample latency with all channels recording simultaneously and vst plugins running realtime on the pc.

The audient has a fewer amount of channels to transfer ... the 802 is an 30/30 interface (IN/OUT). This can already make a difference.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: Big problem with Fireface 802, crackling noise even with 2048 sample

MC wrote:

Looks like the USB in your computer has a big problem to support 30 channels of audio I/O in isochronous streaming format. Get an additional PCIe USB card and the problems are most probably gone.

trying to solve the problem, what should I get? a motherboard without the ASMedia controller shipset? a mobo without AMD processor/socket?

can't mount a pcie board, there's no room.

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Re: Big problem with Fireface 802, crackling noise even with 2048 sample

marcobarbaro wrote:
MC wrote:

Looks like the USB in your computer has a big problem to support 30 channels of audio I/O in isochronous streaming format. Get an additional PCIe USB card and the problems are most probably gone.

trying to solve the problem, what should I get? a motherboard without the ASMedia controller shipset? a mobo without AMD processor/socket?

can't mount a pcie board, there's no room.

You are aware of, that you can plug a x4 PCIe card also into a x8 and x16 socket ?

What mainboard do you have exactly and which slots are in use by which card ?

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

17 Reply by marcobarbaro (edited by marcobarbaro 2017-10-28 14:15:39)

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Re: Big problem with Fireface 802, crackling noise even with 2048 sample

hello ramses, sorry for the delay.
I have a Asus sabertooth 990fx r2.0

the vga have custom noctua fans to produce less noise as possibile and they are quite big.
but a pcie card would do.

for a USB2.0 pcie card (don't need usb3 interface), is it ok a PCIe 2.0 x1 socket?


another question. about the problem, do you think is related to the asmedia controller itself? the combination of asmedia and AMD cpu? or just a failure of my motherboard?
I was looking at other motherboards - with Intel cpu - and many have the ASMedia controller.

thanks for your support. this topic is really interesting and a bit difficult to me to understand.

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Re: Big problem with Fireface 802, crackling noise even with 2048 sample

p.s. I'm reading your topic about UFX and ASMEdia USB3.1 controller.
how that change regarding USB2.0 interfaces (old UFX, UCX)?

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Re: Big problem with Fireface 802, crackling noise even with 2048 sample

p.s.2 As I would need an extra pcie card USB only for the RME interface, would it be better get a firewire 400 pcie card for it?
thanks

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Re: Big problem with Fireface 802, crackling noise even with 2048 sample

I would try with USB .. as usually Firmware updates also requires USB .. so at the end u save one cable.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

21 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2017-10-28 17:54:30)

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Re: Big problem with Fireface 802, crackling noise even with 2048 sample

marcobarbaro wrote:

p.s. I'm reading your topic about UFX and ASMEdia USB3.1 controller.
how that change regarding USB2.0 interfaces (old UFX, UCX)?

Cant tell, I sold my UFX, the UFX+ works in USB3 compat mode with that interface not USB2 compat mode.

I personally regard the 4 x USB3 card from sonnet as cool.
Each port has an USB3 controller of its own.
So ... it should work good with the 802 in USB2 compat mode.

And for the future u can connect what u want up to 4 USB2/USB3 devices in total without interfering with each other.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: Big problem with Fireface 802, crackling noise even with 2048 sample

the inateck 4006 with the Fresco chipset would be the same i guess.

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Re: Big problem with Fireface 802, crackling noise even with 2048 sample

I didn't realise I got a reply from the RME boss... how nice is this!

24 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2017-10-29 10:07:39)

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Re: Big problem with Fireface 802, crackling noise even with 2048 sample

marcobarbaro wrote:

the inateck 4006 with the Fresco chipset would be the same i guess.

FL offers three different FL1100 USB3 controllers on their webpage
http://www.frescologic.com/products_show.php?ms=2

On the Sonnet and Inateck webpage you do not find detail information, which of the chipsets they use.

I wouldn't take the Inateck card because in one of the 3-star ratings I found the information, that the slot bracket of the card in gummed and therefore the card has no proper seating in the PC.

I would take a card that is already proven to work on another Win7 system and this is the Allegro Pro, which I told you already some time ago.

If you do not want to spend so much money for an 4x USB3 card then you could try the much cheaper Allegro, but this is a product which I do not know and where its also possible that Sonnet used another of the 3 FL controllers.

If I were you, then I would buy both Allegros (Allegro and Allegro Pro) and take what works better in your system and then you can also have a look at the card whether they really use the same FL1100 chipset or 2 different of the 3 available from FL.

Please note: the Allegro Pro is really superior, as it offers 4 dedicated USB3 controllers on the card, therefore the price.
But then you have the advantage to use also the other 3 ports for other Audio Interfaces or harddisks and what not.

If you get only the Allegro with only 1 USB3 chipset on it, then you should follow the usual recommendation, to leave the 2nd USB3 slot unused so that your audio interface is the only one behind the USB controller.

My point is, if you "sacrifice" one "precious" PCIe slot in your system, the my opinion is to take a card, which gives you more options for the future and this is definitively the Allegro Pro.

Get both cards, try it out, please report, thanks. As you know you can send articles back if you dont like them. I do it rarely, in this case it makes sense as it saves you time, that you do not have to test this on 2 different days to make the whole story short and come to solutions.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: Big problem with Fireface 802, crackling noise even with 2048 sample

thanks ramses.
I will need time to report because in the hurry I decided to return the RME 802 (it was a used item). In the next month hope to get a UFX or another 802 and test it.

best wishes

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Re: Big problem with Fireface 802, crackling noise even with 2048 sample

first report.
the inateck pcie usb3.0 card don't fit in the pcie slot (don't fit in the case slot) lol



ramses is this the Allegro (non pro)?
https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B00GRG … &psc=1

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Re: Big problem with Fireface 802, crackling noise even with 2048 sample

marcobarbaro wrote:

first report.
the inateck pcie usb3.0 card don't fit in the pcie slot (don't fit in the case slot) lol

As I assumed already in this or another thread based on an amazon rating.

marcobarbaro wrote:

first report.
ramses is this the Allegro (non pro)?
https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B00GRG … &psc=1

Yes, but I cannot guarantee that this is exactly the same FL chip, that I have on the pro card, as there are in fact 3 FL1100 chips available on the Website from Freco Logic.

If you have a PCIe socket free with 4 PCIe lanes, then I would take the pro. Double the price but at the end you have 4 times the FULL USB3 power to connect devices completely independend of each other.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: Big problem with Fireface 802, crackling noise even with 2048 sample

thank you. I'll give it a go, I probably will get a ufx soon.

29 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2017-11-03 11:59:42)

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Re: Big problem with Fireface 802, crackling noise even with 2048 sample

This is a great unit, I used it several years, have fun !

BTW .. ensure in your PC that in the BIOS all energy saving features are disabled for best audio support you might also think about disabling CPU core parking. If you use Cubase, then this is automatically being done if you configured Cubase to use Steinbergs High performance power profile which is then only active, while Cubase is being executed.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: Big problem with Fireface 802, crackling noise even with 2048 sample

well, finally got a UFX used in immaculate condition. what a machine.

In the meantime I took time to upgrade the desktop pc and got a new Intel H270 chipset from a MSI motherboard (has the new ASMedia Usb 3.0 controller).
Zero problems with the Ufx connected to a Usb3.0 port.
No need to buy a pcie card.

31 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2017-11-13 17:40:10)

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Re: Big problem with Fireface 802, crackling noise even with 2048 sample

Thats nice to hear. Keep in mind shall u have USB problems, that there were cases that ASmedia USB3 chips caused issues.
Shall this happen dont worry. Use either one of the USB2 or USB3 ports from the boards chipset or get the one which I got. It uses a new / special machanism of interrupts handling which is more efficient and thus could fix potential problems.
Though not sure as UFX+ and UFX use different drivers, at least maybe worth a try. The controller you find below in my signature.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
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Re: Big problem with Fireface 802, crackling noise even with 2048 sample

thanks ramses!