Topic: Fireface UFX+ Thunderbolt Support on Windows 10

I am on the market looking for a good Thunderbolt audio interface that has good support on Windows 10 and isn't exclusively limited to DAWs. I need to be able to feed my XLR mic into Steam games, Twitch streams, and music production. I previously purchased an Apollo Twin Duo Mk2 Thunderbolt but found out while they work great with DAW software, it doesn't work for anything else. None of my Windows apps or games could get audio from the Universal Audio WDM driver. How well does the RME Fireface UFX+ work with Windows apps like Steam chat, browser, Google Hangouts, etc? Have these been tested?

2 (edited by ramses 2018-05-26 14:12:02)

Re: Fireface UFX+ Thunderbolt Support on Windows 10

You can create WDM devices for non-ASIO aware applications for each of the input- and output channels.

Here a picture collection .. I only require a WDM device for my Analog Outputs 1+2, for i.e. Youtube, Games, ...
My other main applications support ASIO natively (Cubase, Sony Vegas, MusicBee, ...)

But if you need a MIC for Teamspeak or whatever, you can easily create also a WDM device for this.

Best practise is to configure only the really required number of WDM devices.
Forgot the exact reason. I think to reduce startup time as old PCs with weak CPUs needed some time,
until these devices have been created dynamically upon startup (if I am not mistaken).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1yrcakt7e9lkwl5/2018-05-26%20UFX%2B%20Driver%20Settings%20Dialog%20-%20WDM%20Devices%20Part%201.jpg?dl=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qq5rbt6n49wix6o/2018-05-26%20UFX%2B%20Driver%20Settings%20Dialog%20-%20WDM%20Devices%20Part%202.jpg?dl=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8epc4yt47gcwzow/2018-05-26%20UFX%2B%20Driver%20Settings%20Dialog%20-%20WDM%20Devices%20Part%203.jpg?dl=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sul8hpesk7kvfvk/2018-05-26%20UFX%2B%20Driver%20Settings%20Dialog%20-%20WDM%20Devices%20Part%204.jpg?dl=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tz5sos2jvqqm1qq/2018-05-26%20UFX%2B%20Driver%20Settings%20Dialog%20-%20WDM%20Devices%20Part%205.jpg?dl=1

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Fireface UFX+ Thunderbolt Support on Windows 10

Do you experience any popping and clicking noises via the Thunderbolt connection?

I just wish they had a smaller two port version of the UFX+ at a lower cost.

4 (edited by ramses 2018-05-26 18:43:14)

Re: Fireface UFX+ Thunderbolt Support on Windows 10

For 2 ports you do not need thunderbolt, USB2 supports up to ~64 channels, see for example the MADIface USB: http://www.rme-audio.de/products/madiface_usb.php

Recording Interfaces like i.e. UC, UCX, 802, UFX, UFX II run flawlessly using USB2.

Latency with USB is no issue, see here:

https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/index.php/Attachment/1931-UFX-UFX-RayDAT-Latencies-jpg/


And even big projects run flawlessly via USB:

https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … cks-de-en/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

5 (edited by hydrobrain 2018-05-26 18:48:22)

Re: Fireface UFX+ Thunderbolt Support on Windows 10

Okay, so if I went for the RME UCX would I be able to accomplish the same thing you mentioned above in your post (i.e. creating a WDM driver to feed my xlr mic input to all of my non-ASIO apps)? Or should I be looking at something smaller like the baby face pro?

6 (edited by ramses 2018-05-26 19:00:45)

Re: Fireface UFX+ Thunderbolt Support on Windows 10

Yes. The only difference of the USB driver is, that you can simply configure the amount of WDM devices, no pick, for which port exactly you want to have it. For more flexibility, Durec, etc eventually consider UFX II, which is the newest design with latest / better analog section, compared to old Flagship UFX. If you can afford it, go UFX II.

https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … 8-RME-UFX/

Advantages of the new UFX+ / UFX II compared to old flagship interface UFX

  • revised version of analog circuits and DSP

  • improved SNR and THD values

  • Direct USB Recording (DuRec): up to 76 channels can be recorded simultaneously - optionally with 12 analog and 64 MADI inputs

  • Internal Real Time Clock, allows timestamps in DuRec filenames

  • DuRec: increased reliability when using slower or multi-partitioned USB thumb devices

  • Microphone inputs with + 18dBU max, no PAD

  • Microphone inputs have 75 (!) DB Gain Range, which is 10dB more compared to UCX / UFX and 15dB more compared to the 802.

  • Headphone outputs with only 2 ohm impedance, with +19 dBU max output level

  • New Remote Control "ARC USB" (details below) for regular and stand-alone operation

  • ARC USB plugable either to the UFX+ or alternatively to the computer (TotalMix FX does thenthe required interfacing)

  • The two rotary encoders on the right of the display now individually adjust the volume of Phones 9/10 and 11/12.

  • Fully stand-alone. There are additional settings compared to the UFX.

  • UFX+: USB3 / USB2, Thunderbolt connection to Windows / Mac, supports "hot-plugging" under Windows

  • UFX+: Additional 64 channels by MADI with the options auto, optical, coaxial and split

  • UFX+: Wordclock BNC switchable to MADI coaxial

  • UFX+: total channel count 188 channels (94 IN, 94 OUT): 24 analog, 32 ADAT, 4 AES, 128 MADI

  • UFX+: MADI split mode allows 32 channels each via MADI optical / coaxial

  • UFX+: MADI I/O via TotalMix is still available on USB2, despite the limitation to 30 I / O inputs (12 analog plus 16 ADAT plus AES)

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Fireface UFX+ Thunderbolt Support on Windows 10

Yeah the cost is quite prohibitive for me. I might just start with a smaller unit like a MADIface pro. I think that should suit my needs for awhile.

8 (edited by ramses 2018-05-26 19:08:37)

Re: Fireface UFX+ Thunderbolt Support on Windows 10

Or as you said the UCX. Might have some advantages in terms of cabling, less breakout cables required.
I would definitively go UFX II then you have smth which is also able to operate standalone
and the ARC USB can i.e. be directly connected to the device for standalone operation.

If your goal is a madi based solution, to i.e. connect up to 8 XTC, then go MADI.
But .. this will definitively suck money.
An UFX II might still be the best package with the highest feature density in one rack unit.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

Re: Fireface UFX+ Thunderbolt Support on Windows 10

Ideally I wanted the UFX+ because it has the Thunderbolt connection or the UFX II but it's just way too expensive for me right now. Right now I'm just trying to find an audio interface that has rock solid drivers and plug-n-play reliability and can feed my new XLR mic into non-ASIO aware applications. Which RME product could deliver this for the lowest price? Babyface pro? Madiface pro? ucx?

10 (edited by ramses 2018-05-26 20:17:02)

Re: Fireface UFX+ Thunderbolt Support on Windows 10

As good as all, i.e. BBF Pro and MADIface Pro.

To get further more concrete help it would be good if you could concrete your demand on analog and digital I/Os and tell explicitely your price expectations.

Tell also if you have special requirements:
- connection to PC (USB2/3, Thunderbolt, Firewire)
- MIDI IO
- stand alone capabilities
....

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13

11 (edited by hydrobrain 2018-05-26 20:36:35)

Re: Fireface UFX+ Thunderbolt Support on Windows 10

Requirements

- Supports Windows 10 and non-ASIO aware applications.
- Solid reliable drivers
- I would prefer Thunderbolt 2/3 audio interface because I have a Thunderbolt 3 PCIE card installed but would be willing to downgrade to USB 3 if necessary.
- At least 2 XLR inputs
- While I don't need a connection for a piano keyboard right now, it would be nice if it included a midi or stereo input for connecting a keyboard for recording.
- Less than or equal to $1200

Product I've been looking at: RME Babyface Pro, RME MADIface Pro, Antelope Audio Discrete 4
Does RME plan to make a new version of BabyFace Pro with a Thunderbolt 3 connection. That's exactly what I am looking for.

12 (edited by ramses 2018-05-26 21:08:36)

Re: Fireface UFX+ Thunderbolt Support on Windows 10

Thunderbolt is not required for your very small demand of channels.

It does not give you any noticebaly advantage in terms of ASIO driver round trip time (RTT).
RTT = required time for an audio signal to be transferred from the recording interface to the DAW and back.
Please review again the Excel table, which I already posted, as I have a certain feeling that you might have read it,
but didnt understand. The intention of this Excel is to demonstrate to you, that RME drivers are so good,
that there is no big difference between USB2, USB3, FW, Thunderbold in terms of RTT.

Thunderbolt simply makes the recording interface unnecessary expensive and limits the choices of
- recording interface,
- but also the mainboard

You didn't mention whether its required for you, to have 2 analog inputs and 2 XLR ports to be used at the same time.
Some interfaces have a combo input, where you can plug the one or the other.

For:
- MIDI
- 2 x Analog in for Keyboards
- 2 x XLR inputs
- <= $1200

Babyface Pro, Fireface UC and eventually for a few bucks more: Fireface UCX, MADIface Pro.

If you want an FX chip to be on board:
- BBF Pro, partial implementation (some effects calculated on the PC by the driver)
- UC no FX chip
- UCX, full implementation of FX chip
- MADIface Pro, partial implementation (some effects calculated on the PC by the driver)

See also my comparison sheet here: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/index.ph … 17-12-pdf/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13