1 Topic by taccess (edited by taccess 2018-08-18 04:43:53)

  • Registered: 2015-05-06
  • Posts: 55

Topic: Routing Ideas

Hi

I have a UFX +

Up until yesterday I was using Yamaha hs80 monitors with a HS10W subwoofer.

The subwoofer output L is sending a less clear signal to the monitor very noticeable seems to be in the higher range though.

Anyway I swapped monitor woofers, XLR cables at rear of UFX, plus direct connections to the monitors to confirm this is accurate.

So I am going to buy a pair of EVE SC208 however I can’t afford the sub woofer yet, so to my question.

Obviously the two XLR outputs will go to the EVE monitors so is there anyway of still using the HS10W seperatly if so how do I connect and route it in please?

So basically I just want to run my studio monitors seperatly without running them through the subwoofer But still have my subwoofer connected also.

Is this possible ?

  • Registered: 2015-05-06
  • Posts: 55

Re: Routing Ideas

Anyone with expertise please ?

3 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2018-08-19 10:33:32)

  • ramses
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Re: Routing Ideas

[deleted], see post #8 below.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2015-05-06
  • Posts: 55

Re: Routing Ideas

ramses wrote:

Where is the problem ?! Create a submix for it using i.e. AN 3/4.

TM FX, Submix mode, klick to HW output AN3/4, then raise the faders of HW inputs and SW playback channels as you need.

Hi Ramses

Picked up SC208s last night WOW they sound 1000 per event different then the HS80ms.

No idea what your saying although it sounds promising that it may be achieved.

Always used RME products but never spent to much time on routing.

It’s my daughters BDay today so I can’t check this sub mix mode your suggesting, but from what I am making out there is a setting in TM FX to “Tick/Untick” Submix Mode ?

Once this is Ticked I am then
A) In TM FX, using my mouse bring focus by clicking HW Channel 3/4
B) Still in TM FX, now raise the faders of HW Inputs 3/4
C) Still in TM FX, now raise the SW channels as I need ? My EVE SC208s output SW channel AN 1/2 directly to the main output fader, so for step C do I raise SW faders AN 1/2

Just so you know my connections
1) EVE SC208s monitors outputs HW channels 1/2 UFX+ Via XLR
2) Yamaha HS10W Sub outputs HW channel 3 UFX+ Via 1/4

Just trying to get a better understanding so when I try on Monday morning Perth time I will have a better understanding.

Regards

5 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2018-08-19 09:50:49)

  • ramses
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Re: Routing Ideas

As I said, in Submix Mode, every HW output is a submix of its own. So your recording interface has so many submixes as it has HW Outputs (Analog, ADAT, .. )

If your speakers are connected to AN 1/2, then click in bottom row (HW Outputs) to channel AN 1/2, then decide which HW inputs and SW playback channels (Top / Middle Row) you want to listen to, in those channels raise the faders.

Tip for speed: when doubleclicking a fader it toggles between 0dB and "off".

More generic / better way for 1st time setup

For 1st time use there is even a much better way to 1st reset TotalMix FX completely and then to change the routing to playback everything to "Main Out". Becaus by this all HW inputs and SW Playback channels are then properly setup "in one sweep" to playback to your Main Output. I will show you the steps now:

1. you need to assign "Analog Output AN 1/2" to "Main Out", see 1st picture below.
2. then you need to reset totalmix and then choose the proper function to playback everything to Main out, see 2nd picture below
3. The result of this you store as Snapshot 1.
- Open the Snapshot Menue on the middle right of Totalmix, if not yet done
- Press "store" button and select Snapshot 1
- You can rename the Snapshot to "Main Out" as synonym, that a click to this Snapshot 1 button routes all to "Main Out"
4. Do not forget to save these settings, by saving Snapshot and Workspace settings
- File -> Save Snapshot As
- File -> Save Workspace As
5. You should save this also to one of the 30 Workspace Quick Select Slots, so that you can recall a complete Workspace Settings (with all of its snapshot and workplace settings) very quickly.
6. Under Options -> Preferences I recommend that you select this option
(x) Always init DSP devices with TotalMix FX settings
Then you do not get asked on Windows reboot, what settings you prefer, those on the device or those stored in TM FX on PC.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2hl36zthyqumkm3/2018-08-19%2010_26_30-RME%20TotalMix%20FX%201st%20setup1-2.jpg?dl=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u29ib6l8p3aidpo/2018-08-19%2010_26_30-RME%20TotalMix%20FX%201st%20setup2-2.jpg?dl=1

This is being explained here in detail:

I wrote a primer for TM setup in DE/EN: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … rnal-equi/

There are also RME training videos available which are compact and well done and split in several chapters.
They do not take long: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … al-Videos/

My primer also contains a Visio Drawing about routing which also helps to get better unterstanding about routing and the position of TM FX in Windows and I also explained the Mixer Block Diagram, that you find in every products manual.

https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/index.php/Attachment/1988-TotalMix-Diagram-Overview-Signal-Flow-jpg/

https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/index.php/Attachment/1987-RME-UFX-TotalMix-FX-Block-Diagram-with-comments-jpg/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2015-05-06
  • Posts: 55

Re: Routing Ideas

ramses wrote:

As I said, in Submix Mode, every HW output is a submix of its own. So your recording interface has so many submixes as it has HW Outputs (Analog, ADAT, .. )

If your speakers are connected to AN 1/2, then click in bottom row (HW Outputs) to channel AN 1/2, then decide which HW inputs and SW playback channels (Top / Middle Row) you want to listen to, in those channels raise the faders.

Tip for speed: when doubleclicking a fader it toggles between 0dB and "off".

More generic / better way for 1st time setup

For 1st time use there is even a much better way to 1st reset TotalMix FX completely and then to change the routing to playback everything to "Main Out". Becaus by this all HW inputs and SW Playback channels are then properly setup "in one sweep" to playback to your Main Output. I will show you the steps now:

1. you need to assign "Analog Output AN 1/2" to "Main Out", see 1st picture below.
2. then you need to reset totalmix and then choose the proper function to playback everything to Main out, see 2nd picture below
3. The result of this you store as Snapshot 1.
- Open the Snapshot Menue on the middle right of Totalmix, if not yet done
- Press "store" button and select Snapshot 1
- You can rename the Snapshot to "Main Out" as synonym, that a click to this Snapshot 1 button routes all to "Main Out"
4. Do not forget to save these settings, by saving Snapshot and Workspace settings
- File -> Save Snapshot As
- File -> Save Workspace As
5. You should save this also to one of the 30 Workspace Quick Select Slots, so that you can recall a complete Workspace Settings (with all of its snapshot and workplace settings) very quickly.
6. Under Options -> Preferences I recommend that you select this option
(x) Always init DSP devices with TotalMix FX settings
Then you do not get asked on Windows reboot, what settings you prefer, those on the device or those stored in TM FX on PC.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2hl36zthyqumkm3/2018-08-19%2010_26_30-RME%20TotalMix%20FX%201st%20setup1-2.jpg?dl=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u29ib6l8p3aidpo/2018-08-19%2010_26_30-RME%20TotalMix%20FX%201st%20setup2-2.jpg?dl=1

This is being explained here in detail:

I wrote a primer for TM setup in DE/EN: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … rnal-equi/

There are also RME training videos available which are compact and well done and split in several chapters.
They do not take long: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … al-Videos/

Just double checking !
Is all this going to allow me to route my HW Output AN 3 (Sub) to use with my monitors AN 1/2 ?

7 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2018-08-19 10:34:23)

  • ramses
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Re: Routing Ideas

The preferred way to connect Sub and Monitors is to connect the Sub itself to AN1/2.
The front stereo monitors you connect then to the sub, not to the recording interface.
See also my next post #8 below.

Look for example this Neumann KH 805 Sub:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c2loghpa1yffuie/2018-08-19%2010_55_08-Neumann%20KH%20805%20%E2%80%93%20Musikhaus%20Thomann.jpg?dl=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ezjw8hzv3mdi2p9/2018-08-19%2011_09_10-KH805_Setup%201.jpg?dl=1

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

8 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2018-08-19 10:37:13)

  • ramses
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Re: Routing Ideas

Hi,

at the beginning I didn't fully understand your question, sorry.
Therefore I deleted now my post #3 because it was a bad recommendation.

You may not connect Monitors in parallel to the subwoofer to your recording interface.
Always connect subwoofer to recording interface and monitors to the subwoofer.

The Neumann Manual clearly states:

"[...]Do not use the subwoofer in parallel to the main loudspeakers
by replaying the low frequencies of the signal using both the subwoofer and the main loudspeakers.

Doing it this way leads to constructive and destructive interference where the responses overlap
due to the different phase responses of the drivers.

The result is an uneven bass response in the room, especially if you are moving around.
Always connect the subwoofer in one of the ways shown above.[...]"

So, if you say that your Yamaha Subwoofer doesn't deliver properly on the left channel, when you connect your monitors to the subwoofer (as it needs to be) then its most likely defective (or maybe of bad quality from the beginning).

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2015-05-06
  • Posts: 55

Re: Routing Ideas

ramses wrote:

Hi,

at the beginning I didn't fully understand your question, sorry.
Therefore I deleted now my post #3 because it was a bad recommendation.

You may not connect Monitors in parallel to the subwoofer to your recording interface.
Always connect subwoofer to recording interface and monitors to the subwoofer.

The Neumann Manual clearly states:

"[...]Do not use the subwoofer in parallel to the main loudspeakers
by replaying the low frequencies of the signal using both the subwoofer and the main loudspeakers.

Doing it this way leads to constructive and destructive interference where the responses overlap
due to the different phase responses of the drivers.

The result is an uneven bass response in the room, especially if you are moving around.
Always connect the subwoofer in one of the ways shown above.[...]"

So, if you say that your Yamaha Subwoofer doesn't deliver properly on the left channel, when you connect your monitors to the subwoofer (as it needs to be) then its most likely defective (or maybe of bad quality from the beginning).


That’s what I thought although I thought there might be a way.

Unfortunately there is a minor problem with the left output of the subwoofer in the highs so it’s impossible to run my monitors through the subwoofer which is why I started this thread in hope I could route the the monitors + sub seperatley.

Regards