• Registered: 2017-07-01
  • Posts: 32

Topic: UFX II, Octamic and...FireFace 800?

Hello Again

Guess Im no longer classed as a newbie; we`ve been using a UFX II plus Octamic XTC connected together via ADAT, into a Win10 pc via USB for nearly 2 years now. We record our band sessions with this setup. Love it, particularly the TotalMix front end!

But recently we find we are running short of mic preamps, despite the 4 on the front of the UFXII and the 8 on the Octamic.
So how could we add say 4 more rme preamps, visible in TotalMix without paying 1000+ Euros?

Yesterday I found a secondhand FireFace 800 online for just 500 Euros. That would do the job with its 4 mic preamps, right?
Well now Im not sure: it uses a Firewire connection, whereas we are using USB to connect UFXII and Octamic XTC to the pc. 

But hang on a minnow; we would only be connecting the FireFace to the UFXII using the second ADAT input. We wouldn't be using the FireWire part of the FireFace…

So would it work?
Any inputs gratefully received!

cheers
plank

2 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2019-04-09 18:13:33)

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
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  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 12,885

Re: UFX II, Octamic and...FireFace 800?

Yes, you only need a FW connection to the PC to be able to configure the settings and the routing of the FF800.
Then you could theoretically operate it standalone, BUT ...

This will work fabulous for analog ports, but for Mic Preamps you want to be able to enable/disable Phantom Power
and adjust the Gain. Therefore you should keep the FF800 connected to the PC via FW for pure operational reasons.
But tbh .. I wouldn't start now with Firewire on top on the PC, esp as FW is a dead horse on Win10.
There are legacy drivers available .. but I wouldn't do it.
It is also a little bit more uncomfortably, having to deal then with 2 separate TM FX instances and driver settings dialogues.

The ideal solution would be IMHO, to add another XTC, because then you can remote control BOTH XTC
as AUX device and store all settings digitally in the one TM FX instance of the UFX II.

With 2 XTC you would have 2 MADI capable devices.
In the future I would sell UFX II, get UFX+, then you have maximum comfort, minimum cables.
UFX+ costs only €400 more compared to UFX II.
And you have 64 channels more for 44.1/48 and 32 channels more for 88.2/96 for high quality recording.

Alternative A)
If you have 4 analog input channels free on the UFX II you could also add a Qadmic:
http://www.rme-audio.de/products/quadmic.php
https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_quadmic_ii.htm €581
This has the advantage, that the 2nd ADAT port stays free for
- any future 8-port extension (8-Port ADDA converter or another Preamp)
- if you want to perform high quality recordings @88.2/96

Alternative B)
Get an Octamic II
http://www.rme-audio.de/products/octamic_2.php
https://www.thomann.de/de/rme_octamic_ii.htm €1299

The ideal setup for you would have been the UFX+ and then to connect as many XTC as are required via MADI,
where the MADI cables can even become up to 2km long between the devices.
MIDI over MADI would have saved you MIDI cabling for remote control as AUX device.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13
  • Registered: 2018-04-07
  • Posts: 15

Re: UFX II, Octamic and...FireFace 800?

Just to be a "devil's advocate" here, I use the FF800 with a UCX daily. The gain on the mic channels is adjustable using the trim pots on the front and I don't use the FF800 with mics that need phantom, so I'm not going in and out of the setup dialogue. I run it like a plain old AD/DA box, with channels 1-8 going to ADAT 1-8 and vice versa, channels 9/10 go via SPDIF and so I get all 10 channels and use it like a second headphone mix too, which is a great feature. I use a BNC word clock with the UCX as master and the '800 as slave; though likely I don't need to do this, it makes me worry less about clock sync.

Since it fits within the 36 total channels of my UCX I control everything through the UCX TM FX dialogue (and even get FX on the FF800's channels, since they are inputted via the ADAT/SPDIF) and have full mixing/routing of anything to anything.

Just make sure, when you do your initial configuration of the FF800, that you store the settings to the unit's hardware, then power it off and back on to test/ensure that it remembered the config! I forgot to do that the first time (saving it as a total mix preset doesn't count!) and when I powered it back on without the FW connection it didn't sync and nothing worked.

Now, there's no room to expand from here, but that's ok with me as when/if I need to expand I'll use this setup for touring and expand the studio setup starting from scratch with MADI/Dante/etc...

  • Registered: 2017-07-01
  • Posts: 32

Re: UFX II, Octamic and...FireFace 800?

Thanks Ramses

Grateful for your advice as always...
I think, as you say, we need a second Octamic. They come up occasionally second hand, so I think Ill bide my time and pounce next time I see one on the bay...
Your alternative A (Quadmic) would not work for us; we already use all the inputs of the UFXII.

Anyway easiest would be to have it all in a single instance of TM. Am I right that in a recent post you wrote about a Behringer 8 ADDA unit with Midas preamps that would work in TM just like a 2nd Octamic?
And it costs under 200 Euros? Or am I dreaming that???!!!

My band colleagues say we shouldn't mix rme quality with Behringer (!), so maybe we`ll never go that route, but I was wondering if its true?

Many thanks again

plank

  • Registered: 2017-07-01
  • Posts: 32

Re: UFX II, Octamic and...FireFace 800?

Almost a cross post, studiodc, thanks for your inputs too!
From what you write the FF800 could be made to appear in our single instance of TM, but I don't think we have a FW port on the studio pc, so Id have to configure it here at home, save the settings and then use it standalone at our studio. Encouraging news for me, hope ramses agrees!

cheers
plank

  • Registered: 2018-04-07
  • Posts: 15

Re: UFX II, Octamic and...FireFace 800?

Yes, it's fine to configure at home, just doublecheck that it powers up in the same config. Since I've configured mine, I haven't had to touch the setup once. Of course, keep a system handy so that you CAN if you need to (BTW you can configure it with a mac too, if anybody has a macbook and a firewire adapter it works just fine on the latest OS). And again I'd personally suggest using BNC wordclock between them, if you can, just to keep the FF800 as tight as possible with the rest of the system.

But the FF800 is still a superlative preamp/AD interface and sounds/performs beautifully. Plus those extra 2 channels of (line) I/O are really nice over the standard 8 channel interfaces - use them for outboard send/return loops, additional synths, parallel FX, etc. Far superior to the budget interfaces on the market for sure!

And regardless of whatever happens to FW, it'll always be an excellent AD/DA standalone.

  • ramses
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  • Registered: 2012-10-14
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Re: UFX II, Octamic and...FireFace 800?

plankspanker wrote:

Am I right that in a recent post you wrote about a Behringer 8 ADDA unit with Midas preamps that would work in TM just like a 2nd Octamic?

Different story, this guy only needed AD or DA, no mic preamps, at the end he decided to get a Ferrofish AD/DA converter.

In regards to "MIDAS designed" preamps: I doubt that this €1xx device has MIDAS quality preamps comparable to their top products  for obvious reasons. A certain quality simply costs. Maybe they are not bad for the price, but I think that's all about it.

The XTC can be integrated into TM FX as AUX device, so you can remote control a lot of more things like Gain, 48V, Stereo/Mono, Instr, PAD, Autoset and store everything digitally.

plankspanker wrote:

My band colleagues say we shouldn't mix rme quality with Behringer (!), so maybe we`ll never go that route, but I was wondering if its true?

One reviewer mentioned that the outputs are a bit noisy (SNR).

Another thing is that this unit only offers 1x ADAT. You can't record @88.2/96 kHz without loosing 50% of channels.

You can't compare a Behringer to an XTC.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub13