• Registered: 2018-02-02
  • Posts: 50

Topic: Interface for Guitar + Microphone?

I'm so in love with my ADI-2 DAC that I want to get an RME interface to upgrade from my Focusrite Clarett 2Pre USB.

I need to be able to use it for both guitar and microphone simultaneously, and I need to do it with minimal latency. Anything over a few milliseconds makes the guitar feel wrong to play.

I know PCIe is the fastest you can get, so what would be the ideal RME solution for vocals + guitar?

Or, would I be better served by going with the Babyface Pro?

2 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2019-04-11 06:37:38)

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 13,394

Re: Interface for Guitar + Microphone?

Any RME interface has decent low latency drivers.
For playing guitar VSTi you need latencies below 10ms.

See my blog article which contains a comparison of Round Trip Latencies (RTL) as reported from ASIO driver over USB, FW, TB: https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … 8-RME-UFX/ or graphic below.

As you can see, all RME driver deliver decent quality and low RTL latencies.
With the UFX+ I can even play via Kuasse with ASIO Buffersize of 256 samples @44.1.
That's a little bit more than 10ms delay (13,2ms) but still doable without slowing down.
Recommended is to use 128 and below to feel more comfortably while playing.

See also this article, you can translate it via Google translator or https://www.deepl.com/translator.
https://www.musiker-board.de/threads/wi … st-8775458

https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/index.php/Attachment/2343-UFX-UFX-RayDAT-Latencies-v2-jpg/

You can also combine ADI-2 Pro FS with a recording interface:
https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/blog/ind … our-Setup/

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • vinark
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2009-06-05
  • Posts: 2,858

Re: Interface for Guitar + Microphone?

Do tell us you system specs!

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
  • Registered: 2018-02-02
  • Posts: 50

Re: Interface for Guitar + Microphone?

System Specs:
CPU: Intel i9 9900k
RAM: 16GB G.Skill TridentZ DDR4 3600 CL15
Main Drive : Samsung 960 Pro NVMe
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Ultra
GPU: Zotac 1080 Ti ArcticStorm
PSU: EVGA SuperNova 850 T2
OS: Windows 10
USB: Sonnet Allegro Pro

I can get a Thunderbolt card with this motherboard but don't have one.

I'm hoping for a single purchase to get what I'm after (I don't have the ADI-2 Pro, just the ADI-2 DAC), or at least the second purchase should be check (like if I need a buffer pedal for the guitar).

5 Reply by ramses (edited by ramses 2019-04-11 17:26:41)

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 13,394

Re: Interface for Guitar + Microphone?

What is your max budget ?
Do you eventually want DURec and AutoSet ?

You should make a requirement list how many analog and digital channels you need.
And what you want as a reserve.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

6 Reply by Luckbad (edited by Luckbad 2019-04-11 19:57:36)

  • Registered: 2018-02-02
  • Posts: 50

Re: Interface for Guitar + Microphone?

The only things I need are:

- 2 analog ins for: Microphone, Guitar
- Low latency so I can play the guitar through it to DAW/Guitar Amp Emulation Software (e.g. Bias Amp 2)
- Output to at least a pair of monitors

Fairly low requirements. The Babyface Pro might be the best option for me.

Max budget is not certain yet. I'd prefer to keep it under $1000 but I might be willing to go higher.

I don't really plan to need more than that. I'll never put in enough effort to go beyond amateur/hobby level with music.

  • vinark
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2009-06-05
  • Posts: 2,858

Re: Interface for Guitar + Microphone?

Then get a second hand babyface. Same driver tech. Sounds great. If you want theoretically better sound use your adi2dac fors monitors. But it will sound the same with guitars and a mic. A new babyface pro will do too of course but it is overkill.

Vincent, Amsterdam
https://soundcloud.com/thesecretworld
BFpro fs, 2X HDSP9652 ADI-8AE, 2X HDSP9632
  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 13,394

Re: Interface for Guitar + Microphone?

Luckbad wrote:

The only things I need are:

- 2 analog ins for: Microphone, Guitar
- Low latency so I can play the guitar through it to DAW/Guitar Amp Emulation Software (e.g. Bias Amp 2)
- Output to at least a pair of monitors

Fairly low requirements. The Babyface Pro might be the best option for me.

Max budget is not certain yet. I'd prefer to keep it under $1000 but I might be willing to go higher.

I don't really plan to need more than that. I'll never put in enough effort to go beyond amateur/hobby level with music.

Here a comparison of most but not all RME recording interfaces that I put together from manual and information from this forum, by this you can compare technical data and features in an easier way:

https://www.tonstudio-forum.de/index.ph … 018-08-pdf

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14
  • Registered: 2018-02-02
  • Posts: 50

Re: Interface for Guitar + Microphone?

Just to circle back here after I mulled over the options. I didn't want to break the bank at the moment, so I decided to try a Steinberg UR28M as I found one used for less than $200.

It's a very good interface with okay drivers. The latency isn't great, and I lost some of the feel of playing the guitar through it even at the most aggressive sample rate and buffer settings.

Then I remembered that the ADI-2 DAC is a wondrous device.

I connected the UR28M to my ADI-2 DAC via S/PDIF (coaxial) and found the proper settings to run it in full duplex mode after consulting the manual: USB (Rec coax). This allows me to send the S/PDIF signal to my DAW and have it play back with the RME ADI-2 DAC.

The touch sensitivity was back! At the risk of discovering I was running on placebo, I measured my round trip latency with RTL Utility. It is now under 2.5ms! Goodness gracious RME's drivers are amazing.

Eventually, I'll likely jump on the RME Babyface Pro or HDSPe AIO bandwagon, but this has me happy.

  • ramses
  • DAW Mastermind
  • Offline
  • From: UTC+1
  • Registered: 2012-10-14
  • Posts: 13,394

Re: Interface for Guitar + Microphone?

Congratulations, for now you have found a very creative solution for yourself.

However, I can tell you from my own experience that recording interfaces in the low-priced sector are always only a compromise and never really satisfy.

Even the Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56, which I used before the RME UFX and which already cost around €800, was simply bad compared to the RME interfaces I used so far (UFX, RayDAT, UFX+).

Unstable drivers you couldn't rely on. The encoders only worked on the last 25%, the setting was "micrometer work". The operating software is incomprehensible for me and doesn't offer nearly the possibilities of TotalMix FX.

And especially a well-done, comfortable and logical mixer software like TotalMix FX is so extremely important to "feel comfortable" with a recording interface and to get all the possibilities out of it. After all, you work with it every day.

Many inexpensive recording interfaces don't even offer loopback recording anymore, which is so useful. With Focusrite, the old Firewire interfaces used to be able to do that. This feature was no longer implemented in the later USB interfaces of the Scarlett series.

These are just a few examples to encourage you not to be afraid to spend a few Euro more for it, because it will simply bring you advantages and more fun when recording.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14