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RME User Forum → ADI-2 & 2/4 Pro series, ADI-2 DAC series → ADI-2 Pro and power supply upgrades
Has anyone ever tried upgrading the power supply? If so, what did you use and what were the results? RME claims in the manual that the ADI-2 should be fairly robust to low-quality power supplies, but they stop short of saying that it won't. Any experiences?
If by "upgrading" you mean enheance sound quality, you will lose time and money. As said in the manual and in different threads on these forum, "upgrading" the PSU is pointless.
The stock power supply is NOT low quality. Replacing it with a linear type ps will not enhance performance in any meaningful way.
I've tried 3-4 good linear power supplies and a battery pack with the RME ADI-2 DAC and none of them make a meaningful improvement. I still have most of them, but they're not being used for the RME because it wasn't worth the hassle. It does a great job of cleaning up power internally.
I attach my ADI-2 DAC to a Furman power conditioner.
Not to improve the power supply or audio quality but to protect the unit from power surges in the house i.e. When the kettle turns off the excess electricity will look for an outlet. Usually whatever is plugged into the electrics. The Furman protects all my gear from such spikes.
Over time these spikes which hit power supplies may cause damage, which in turn may affect audio quality.
Kind regards
Rodders
The stock supply is basically fine, maybe except for the mechanical fragility of the DC-cord. In normal application there are no issues.
There is one kind of setup, though, where the rather high mains leakage current of this supply (typical for any SMPS of this kind) will make a difference, at least with measurements. This setup is when the ADI-2 Pro is "fully floating" (digital input via TOSLINK, or USB with an USB-isolator like the Intona device) and RCA cables are used to connect to an amp that has audio ground connected to mains earth, either directly or via the usual R//C (1k//100nF and the like). In this case all of the leakage current flows along the cable shield and when the cords are long and/or the cable has a rather high shield resistance, a significant voltage drop from this current will appear as input signal on the amp. Sometimes it's actually audible from the speakers as a slight hum&buzz.
To a lesser extent a similar error voltage develops when the amp is "fully floating" but has high mains parasitic coupling (larger toroid xformer or again a SMPS).
This error voltage of course is the fault of the cables, not the RME or its supply. The output signal fed to the cable is not affected in any way, but at the other end the error is there. Simple way to avoid this is using the best RCA cables with lowest shield resistance, at the shortest possible length. Using a small linear supply can make a difference here as their leakage current is typically lower and benign in character (50/60Hz component only, no higher harmonics like with SMPS which rectifies the mains).
I'm using my ADI-2 Pro as much for measurements as I do for listening, and therefore I added a medical grade DC/DC converter (TRACO THM30 12V-->15V) between the supply and the RME which reduces the leakage current to neglegible levels. Together with USB fed through an Intona isolator I now have truly a fully floating DAC/ADC with only microscopic amounts of mains and other leakage currents not disturbing the performance even with unbalanced cables.
T
I've tried 3-4 good linear power supplies and a battery pack with the RME ADI-2 DAC and none of them make a meaningful improvement. I still have most of them, but they're not being used for the RME because it wasn't worth the hassle. It does a great job of cleaning up power internally.
Thank you for being the first person to actually report that they've tried it!
The stock supply is basically fine, maybe except for the mechanical fragility of the DC-cord. In normal application there are no issues.
There is one kind of setup, though, where the rather high mains leakage current of this supply (typical for any SMPS of this kind) will make a difference, at least with measurements. This setup is when the ADI-2 Pro is "fully floating" (digital input via TOSLINK, or USB with an USB-isolator like the Intona device) and RCA cables are used to connect to an amp that has audio ground connected to mains earth, either directly or via the usual R//C (1k//100nF and the like). In this case all of the leakage current flows along the cable shield and when the cords are long and/or the cable has a rather high shield resistance, a significant voltage drop from this current will appear as input signal on the amp. Sometimes it's actually audible from the speakers as a slight hum&buzz.
To a lesser extent a similar error voltage develops when the amp is "fully floating" but has high mains parasitic coupling (larger toroid xformer or again a SMPS).This error voltage of course is the fault of the cables, not the RME or its supply. The output signal fed to the cable is not affected in any way, but at the other end the error is there. Simple way to avoid this is using the best RCA cables with lowest shield resistance, at the shortest possible length. Using a small linear supply can make a difference here as their leakage current is typically lower and benign in character (50/60Hz component only, no higher harmonics like with SMPS which rectifies the mains).
I'm using my ADI-2 Pro as much for measurements as I do for listening, and therefore I added a medical grade DC/DC converter (TRACO THM30 12V-->15V) between the supply and the RME which reduces the leakage current to neglegible levels. Together with USB fed through an Intona isolator I now have truly a fully floating DAC/ADC with only microscopic amounts of mains and other leakage currents not disturbing the performance even with unbalanced cables.
Thanks!
The point here is that a slight 'hum & buzz' is just that, and not some mysterious 'sound' change or possible improvement (glare, stage width, depth, separation - the usual audiophool stuff up to the all explaining jitter).
I run mine with a battery, bought a fitting DC connector (lockable) and DYIed a nice connection to the battery. Then I have a charger with fitting DC connector, so I just pull out the DC from the DAC and insert it into charger.
The battery (12V sealed lead acid, 17Ah, around €70) lasts over a day, so I only charge when I sleep. Note that this is with the DAC as a preamp to power amps and speaker, I imagine using headphones will drain the battery faster.
The changes in sound quality is not as big as on some other DACs, but it gives a little improvement in my system. And since I use toslink, the DAC is free of all nastiness on the electric grid.
I come back about power upgrades
Yesterday we made a test using another power supply, namely Salas BiB.
From the first listening, from the first notes you immediately understand the differences. With much less noise- Salas- with a much better image, better resolution, and an upscaling of high frequencies that someone may not like or disturb.
The main thing for me is that the RME DAC is affected by the power change. Probably another power supply will have even better results
I use to buy ultra-clean current from a local manufacturer. It's extremely expensive since the electrons are individually hand-picked and have to meet the highest standards possible. Each electron therefore is subject to a series of quality measures before eventually selected. I pay approx. EUR 1.500 for a battery-pack that lasts about a week, but hey my then my ADI-2 dac sounds otherworldly.
I hear strings that i never heard before, cymbals that are at a sudden heavenly sparkling and express a tonal richness that is impossible to describe in words. Staging becomes phenomenal, it's like you're flying through the concert's hall. And female voices are brightly crisp and smoothly elegant at the same time and moreover seductive as hell.
I use to buy ultra-clean current from a local manufacturer. It's extremely expensive since the electrons are individually hand-picked and have to meet the highest standards possible. Each electron therefore is subject to a series of quality measures before eventually selected. I pay approx. EUR 1.500 for a battery-pack that lasts about a week, but hey my then my ADI-2 dac sounds otherworldly.
I hear strings that i never heard before, cymbals that are at a sudden heavenly sparkling and express a tonal richness that is impossible to describe in words. Staging becomes phenomenal, it's like you're flying through the concert's hall. And female voices are brightly crisp and smoothly elegant at the same time and moreover seductive as hell.
Your imagination is fooling you, you are simply a victim of psychoacoustic effects.
Your imagination is fooling you, you are simply a victim of psychoacoustic effects.
Am I ? ;-)
Thanks for the laugh maartenl!
Lol I didn't read precisely, a good one 
I'm glad to see my 11 year old daughter and her friends aren't the only ones who play the shame game. just doesn't seem as cute when it is played by adults
I'm glad to see my 11 year old daughter and her friends aren't the only ones who play the shame game. just doesn't seem as cute when it is played by adults
I'm glad your daughter has a sense of humor, something her father obviously lacks... and a bit of self-relativism does a man no harm.
As pointed out several times by ADI-2 DAC's designers, another (read: more expensive, often exotic) power supply won't improve the DAC's sound since the DAC is properly designed. But if people believe another power supply is beneficial to the sound why don't they just buy and enjoy it in stead of repeatedly starting over the same discussion again and again and again, without bringing anything new to the table...
I thought that this site was created by RME
a]to help RME owners from the manufacturer and
b] users exchange impressions from RME DAC,and also to help one the other owner .
Probably I made a mistake
Ps
It is rather obvious that some people want to listen only to themselves
Probably I made a mistake
No, you didn't. It's just not one of those highend places.
It has been confirmed already by RME that change of power supply doesn't change the sound.
Yes, the intention of this forum is to support RME user, but not to spread around invalid information,
that come from "high-end" where a lot of products are created with a nice sounding storyline
simply to suck out even more money from people who do not know better.
The very bad thing is, that most people are not aware of psychoacoustic effects, so that they really
believe more and more into this, because our brain/our ears can be fooled easily by ourself / our expectactions.
The only thing that helps is to use a proper test methodology, best paired with sane skepticism and technical knowledge.
So please be prepared that some people in this forum will disagree, if somebody makes some technical claims that do not match reality and especially if this has been confirmed alread by RME.
I have tested some extremely high-quality power supplies and there was no difference at all.
There was a reproducible difference with a battery pack (different grounding) but overall it was no improvement just a bit different (I will not describe the differences in detail, does not make sense here).
If you need a portable solution, you need to use a battery pack. The RME devices sound best with the org. power supply (if your system is configured correctly).
It's just not one of those highend places.
https://www.rme-audio.de/en/products/adi_2.php
"Overview
The ADI-2 is a both compact and extremely flexible 2-Channel Hi-End AD/DA-converter."
@dukua: highend as in highend audio (the cult), not as in exceptional quality. Did not think I have to say that explicitly.
Also, you may want to have a look here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/foru … pply.7713/
Does not make a difference with well designed equipment. No difference at all. Money quote: "So please put aside your intuition in judging such products. When even a $99 DAC shows no improvement with a power supply that costs $500, you should be on notice that there is no there there. If you spend thousands of dollars for your DAC and assumed its designer is even less competent, you really are leaving common sense at the door."
It has been confirmed already by RME that change of power supply doesn't change the sound.
If they have (which I doubt) then thants kind of a stupid thing to say. Better power does make the RME DAC sound better, just like every other DAC out there (as far as I know). I run my ADI-2 on batteries, and while the difference wasn't that big, it did improve the sound (my battery is a 12V 17Ah sealed lead acid battery).
Wow!! Where were you Magnus in the Design, and Development of the ADI-2?
In adfition to Hydrogen Gas production whilst charging your Batteries, perhaps we learn that our Audio is more "Explosive"?
The ADI-2 PS is tested to be delivering Labaratory Grade Power. You have found something better? Oh Please posf the Test Data will you not?
Tell us more!!
If they have (which I doubt)
It’s in the manual.
MagnusH wrote:If they have (which I doubt)
It’s in the manual.
Chapter 6
And I found this interesting article, which underpins the importance of proper testing methods:
Dr. Sean Olive: http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/04/d … oduct.html
In short: if somebody believes in, that the sound with batteries will be better, then he will hear it.
Only blind or better double blind tests can prevent such mistakes.
References of the author: https://www.blogger.com/profile/17909033506833141612
Sean Olive is Senior Research Fellow for Harman International, a major manufacturer of audio products for consumer, professional and automotive spaces. He directs the Corporate R&D group, and oversees acoustic and psychoacoustic research for Harman. Prior to 1993, he was a research scientist at the National Research Council of Canada where his research focused on the perception and measurement of loudspeakers, listening rooms, and microphones. Sean received a Bachelors degree in Music from the University of Toronto, and his Masters and Ph.D. degrees in Sound Recording from McGill University in Montreal. His Ph.D. research was on room acoustic adaptation and the acoustical interaction between loudspeakers and rooms. Dr. Olive has written over 50 research papers on the perception and measurement of audio for which he was awarded the Audio Engineering Society (AES) Fellowship Award in 1996, two Publication Awards (1990 and 1995), the ALMA Titanium and Harman Achievement Awards. Sean is the past President of the Audio Engineering Society. For more info see www.linkedin.com/in/seanolive
Other interesting articles from Sean Olive: http://seanolive.blogspot.com/
I quickly checked the manual and could not see anything about how linear power supply and/or battery would not give any benefit. I did see a text about what voltage range is accepted and information for using batteries, so if anything RME has made it easy to test better power supplies (which is good and professional).
If you guys want to pretend that this DAC is immune to better power, I won't stop you. It does sound good with the supplied power supply, so you are not missing out a lot.
I do not miss anything.
Have fun loading your batteries for no reason. If I were you I would proper test before having this unnecessary burden.
I quickly checked the manual and could not see anything about how linear power supply and/or battery would not give any benefit. I did see a text about what voltage range is accepted and information for using batteries, so if anything RME has made it easy to test better power supplies (which is good and professional).
If you guys want to pretend that this DAC is immune to better power, I won't stop you. It does sound good with the supplied power supply, so you are not missing out a lot.
We are not missing anything...
Please read this post:
The point here is that a slight 'hum & buzz' is just that, and not some mysterious 'sound' change or possible improvement (glare, stage width, depth, separation - the usual audiophool stuff up to the all explaining jitter).
And, in the manual, on page 10:
6. Power Supply In order to make operating the ADI-2 DAC as flexible as possible, the unit has a universal DC input socket, accepting voltages from 9.5 Volts up to 15 Volts. An internal switching regulator of the latest technology with high efficiency (> 90%) prevents internal hum noise by operating above audible frequencies. Internally the switching regulator is followed by standard linear regu-lators, followed by super low-noise linear regulators. Therefore the ADI-2 DAC achieves its technical specs even with less optimal power supplies. Or in other words: the choice of power supply is not critical.
But if you know better than the designer of the ADI-2 DAC, and if you have more faith into your ears than into scientific facts, please enjoy the sound quality improvement of your battery... 
Psychoacoustic it is... Please do a blind test with a friend of yours... I promiss you the sound quality improvement will disappear! And if it does not, you are about to make a big scientific breakthrough! And Matthias will have to go back to school to learn how really RME devices works...
@ramses
@N00b
Just let it go, any further arguing makes no sense. You/we will never convince the believers. I have tried with many customers and I gave up.
But of course it is important to point it out for other users who are undecided.
But of course it is important to point it out for other users who are undecided.
Bingo and that is the only reason why I occasionally reply to such posts, so that this nonsense
does not spread also here in the RME forum.
Otherwise I would like to keep it as in this joke which exists in so many variations:
[story/picture line] ... "Don't argue with fools" -> "Yes, you're right".
Still haven't see where they say in manual that linear power does not improve the sound. And you know why? Because RME are professionals and know that it does :-)
They even said the choise of power is "not critical" which is exactly what I have said. It does matter, but not by a lot.
But if you sit in your studio with Adam A7X monitors and mogami cables, then yes, it probbaly won't be noticeable. And if you use KRK monitors, then absolutely nothing you do will matter :-)
If at some point the RME itself gives us a better upgraded power supply, then it's likely that some will be convinced that the device can play even better. I hope he does not do it because some will be sad
Stubbornness and penetrance should not be frivolously confused with knowledge.
I'm saving for this baby, it will make sing my original RME power supply!
And please don't tell me it is useless: please try it before! And no mention in the RME manual that the wire before the PSU won't improve the sound, so I'm quite hopeful!
Stubbornness and penetrance should not be frivolously confused with knowledge.
Neither should incompetence and lack of understanding.
As far as I am concerned, this issue is pretty much closed since even RME in their manual indicates that better power will yield better sound quality, although not in so many words.
And this is not a criticism to RME, most DAC out there benefits from better power, and from my own experience most DACs benefits more from better power than RME. But still, if you want to maximize the sound quality of the RME DAC, better power is one way to do it. Another way is using toslink, but thats a separate issue.
ramses wrote:Stubbornness and penetrance should not be frivolously confused with knowledge.
Neither should incompetence and lack of understanding.
You ignore necessary testing methods which are required to come to proper test results, but call me incompetent.
Otherwise you're still fine ?
[...] even RME in their manual indicates that better power will yield better sound quality, although not in so many words.[...]
You are the best MagnusH!!! 
As far as I am concerned, this issue is pretty much closed since even RME in their manual indicates that better power will yield better sound quality, although not in so many words.
And this is not a criticism to RME, most DAC out there benefits from better power, and from my own experience most DACs benefits more from better power than RME. But still, if you want to maximize the sound quality of the RME DAC, better power is one way to do it. Another way is using toslink, but thats a separate issue.
As long as you have not yet learned why a valid test method is necessary, you don't have to write anything any further in this matter.
You are not even able to understand and correctly recite manual pages.
The manual is clear on this (chapter 6, again):
"In order to make operating the ADI-2 Pro as flexible as possible, the unit has a universal DC input socket, accepting voltages from 9.5 Volts up to 15 Volts. An internal switching regulator of the latest technology with high efficiency (> 90%) prevents internal hum noise by operating above audible frequencies. Internally the switching regulator is followed by standard linear regulators, followed by super low-noise linear regulators.
Therefore the ADI-2 Pro achieves its technical specs even with less optimal power supplies. Or in other words: the choice of power supply is not critical.
Still the unit includes a high-quality switching power supply [...]"
"Or in other words: the choice of power supply is not critical." means to me that power supply does matter, but not by a whole lot. If it didn't matter, it would be: "Or in other words: the choice of power supply does not matter."
But be that as it may, for me in my system the power supply does matter. Of course, I can't say with any guarantee if it would matter for your system, but I am pretty confident it does matter in most transparent HiFi systems.
And no, I don't need a "valid test method" to determine this, listening is enough. You are free to believe its placebo or whatever.
And no, I don't need a "valid test method" to determine this, listening is enough.
If you approach the matter that way, then it is absolutely clear that nothing usable comes out of it.
You can't just stand up and say that you're immune to psychoacoustic effects. There are scientific studies about it, just have a look at the material I linked above. The study comes from researchers from Harmann, this company you should know. They also wanted to know about the impact of psychoacoustic.
If you think that you can ignore all these things, then you are simply wrong in this forum, beause the things and conclusions that you tell are built on sand.
If you listen objectively (focus on details, stereo width etc and not on "feel") with expectation bias and placebo in mind, you can at least somewhat get rid of the phenomena. For example, a couple of weeks ago I "upgraded" my XLR signal cable. I expected it to sound better and wanted it to sound better but it sounded worse. Not by a lot, and when I switched back I could hear it was not worse in every way, but still.
I have also switched to stock power supply a few times when I forgot to charge battery over night, and always heard the same thing: a little extra clarity and details with battery.
I use toslink, so my DAC is totally isolated from both electric grid and music server when running on battery, I imagine using battery with USB would yield a little less differences.
If you listen objectively ..
How can anything possibly be more objective than a measurement?
MagnusH wrote:If you listen objectively ..
How can anything possibly be more objective than a measurement?
Measurements are very objective, but so far they are not accurate or complex enough to measure total sound quality. Besides, "sound quality" is subjective in itself and very personal.
It would be nice if they where though, just normalize the measurements from 1 to 100 and every system could get a "sound quality" score, which could be used as basis for the cost. Then you would always know what you paid for.
.. i am absolutely mesmerized by this discussion!
We are talking about a device, that performs at the very top of everything available! Such an accomplishment takes tremendous engineering skill and effort! Yet, people on this forum are suggesting that injecting usb-gadgets, fancy PSUs and such into the signal-chain will improve performance in very obvious ways - and at the same time rejecting that it can be measured by anything but human ears ..
The ADI-2 Pro is no cheap item, so the idea that (in this particular discussion) a different PSU would have made it even better, is insulting in a vast number of ways. Are the RME design-crew incompetent when it comes to PSU design? Did they know, but chose to save a few bucks and compromise the final product?
Actually - why didn't RME just lurk every major audiophile forum, and copy every single product that made the sound-stage a bit wider, deeper, and more 3D, since we are already dealing with an expensive product?
I wonder why ... and you should be doing the same!
My ADI-2 DAC is offended. With it's verifiable Laboratory-Grade performance, it
Is being carelessly lumped in with so much Audiophile Crap that is purposely under-engineered to pave the Path for endless, expensive "upgrades"
My RME Unit arrived arrived 5months ago, and STILL represents a Total System Upgrade, just the way it was supplied. There has been absolutely no inclination on my part to use USB Purifiers, Quantum LPSs, Magic Crystals, or Bit Stream Harmonizers. (makes the 1s straighter, and the 0s Rounder you know)
Let's not forget Audio-Grade Motorcycle Batteries! Explosive Gases, and Caustic Liquids are widely appreciated in Audio Circles...(not)
Perhaps a Flash Fire, and Chemical Burns "intensify" the Listening experience for some...there are those people whom are really into that...
To the Innocent Bystanders at home, rest assured your new RME is the Pinnacle of Digital Conversion, and none of the BS "tweaks" mentioned in this counter-productive thread have any Scientific Merit whatsoever, and are hardly worth your Time, or Money. Spend your Energies internalizing the RME Features, and how to best utilize them.
RME sold you a fine unit. Enjoy it!!
Curt
RME User Forum → ADI-2 & 2/4 Pro series, ADI-2 DAC series → ADI-2 Pro and power supply upgrades
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