• Registered: 2019-05-23
  • Posts: 2

Topic: Sample rate should set automatically?

I have a new (and wonderful) RME ADI-2 DAC that I'm getting to know. My understanding had been that the sample rate automatically adjusts to the source sample rate, and the manuals seems to suggest it should do that, but my DAC is not doing that. I'm having to set the sample rate manually using the MIDI settings on an iMac.

Firmware is up to date. Sources are Roon, Tidal and Qobuz via USB. I'm using the DAC as a source feeding a headphone amp, so I'm using the XLR output.

I'm just a home audio listener and not an audio pro, some some of this stuff is fairly technical to me, though I'll take time to learn it.

TIA for any help!

  • From: Leicester UK
  • Registered: 2015-02-11
  • Posts: 109

Re: Sample rate should set automatically?

Hi Andrew,

On the iMac you mention midi settings.

I think there are two different windows here.

One for midi and another for audio.

Changing sample rate should be done from the audio window on a Mac.

When you change the sample rate there, you should be able to see it change instantly on the ADI.

Regards

Rodney

Rme Ucx + Rme Adi-2 Dac Fs

3 Reply by gepardcv (edited by gepardcv 2019-05-23 22:13:09)

  • Registered: 2018-04-25
  • Posts: 13

Re: Sample rate should set automatically?

On macOS, the playback application is responsible for changing the output sample rate, but many apps do not do this. You should set the default sample rate (in Audio MIDI Setup.app) to 44.1kHz for your DAC, as this will match most common files for applications which do not change the output sample rate.

It should be noted that iTunes does not change the output sample rate. Neither does the Tidal app, but nearly all Tidal content is 44/16 so the default setting I suggested above will work correctly.

Presumably you're trying to make things work for your own collection of high-rate audio. I am surprised that Roon does not change the output sample rate for you. Are you absolutely certain that the file you're trying to play is high-sample-rate? As I'm not a Roon customer, I can't help you, but it's likely a Roon configuration problem, which you should address to Roon support or its customer forum. I can tell you that Audirvana does adjust the sample rate correctly and automatically.

Audirvana also has Tidal and Qobuz integration, so for the rare Tidal high-rate files, it will also automatically adjust the sample rate. You can verify this for yourself: when you use Audirvana to play any track from the just-released Game of Thrones Season 8 soundtrack from Tidal, it will play at 88kHz sample rate, but when you use the Tidal app, it will play at 44kHz. I should note that Tidal cannot be fully trusted to have used a high-sample-rate master, and may just be playing an upsampled 44/16 file.

  • Registered: 2019-05-23
  • Posts: 2

Re: Sample rate should set automatically?

Thank you both. Most of my files are 44.1kHz but some of the more recent files are 96kHz. I'll review the settings in Roon, but I do know that another DAC I have (Resolution Audio Cantata) does adjust the sample rate automatically.

  • From: Leicester UK
  • Registered: 2015-02-11
  • Posts: 109

Re: Sample rate should set automatically?

I’m more into pro-audio than being an audiophile. However, I have recently taken an interest in media players. I looked at Roon but the price put me off.

Audivana looks interesting and much more affordable. Think I will give it a trial. However, I am a bit of a neutral geek where I output through Sonarworks Systemwide.

Hopefully the two pieces of software will combine well with the ADI-2 DAC.

Regards

Rodney

Rme Ucx + Rme Adi-2 Dac Fs
  • Registered: 2018-06-29
  • Posts: 100

Re: Sample rate should set automatically?

roon and audirvana are totally different beasts. roon excels in multiroom support, metadata, and dsp features, audirvana is just a player well done. Did you have a look at jriver mediacenter?

(disclaimer: I am using jriver for more than a decade now, upgrading each an every year. And I have a lifetime license for roon).

7 Reply by hhrvoje (edited by hhrvoje 2019-06-10 16:40:04)

  • Registered: 2019-05-30
  • Posts: 25

Re: Sample rate should set automatically?

I have the same question/problem: if i play hi res content in Tidal (MQA), my old Chord DAC showed correct sampling rate, but RME always displays 44.1 on its screen. Tidal should be using ASIO and exclusive mode, but looks like its not (with Chord, if Tidal plays, nothing else could mix into signal so exclusive mode is working). Same with Foobar2000+ASIO output, RME driver doesn't change sampling rate and exclusive mode doesn't work.
Have latest RME drivers, latest Win10, USB connection to RME, 44.1 sampling rate in RME driver dialog.
Looks like its not really using asio but default Win mixer.

~~ sound sommelier ~~
  • Trojka
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Re: Sample rate should set automatically?

Have you checked your sound settings in the Windows configuration? (properties of the sound device, tab Advanced. Is the main sound device the RME output).

  • Registered: 2019-05-30
  • Posts: 25

Re: Sample rate should set automatically?

Trojka wrote:

Have you checked your sound settings in the Windows configuration? (properties of the sound device, tab Advanced. Is the main sound device the RME output).

Yes, setting in Windows reflects whats set in RME driver. But, as far as I understand, that for windows mixer, and when using exclusive mode and ASIO, player can set sampling rate of a source file, and not allow any other player to mix into the playback, but thats not happening.
As I said, Chord and few other DACs were working properly - player would set sampling frequency which I could see on DACs display (lights).
There's something weird happening with RME drives, just not sure if its a bug and it just falls backs to windows mixer / upsampler.

~~ sound sommelier ~~

10 Reply by Olli (edited by Olli 2019-06-11 20:51:37)

  • Olli
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Re: Sample rate should set automatically?

Hi hhrvoje,

I have an ADI-2 DAC and I have Audirvana and meanwhile Roon (see also comments below) on Windows 10.

If you want the sampling rate to adapt automatically you have to make sure that:

-> You are using a player that is able to work with ASIO

-> Install the MADIFACE Driver you can download from the RME-Website here:

https://archiv.rme-audio.de/download/dr … _09681.zip

This will enable the mandatory ASIO-Support. After the installation you have to select the MADIFACE Driver option in Audirvana, Roon or any other player which is capable to handle ASIO. Have you done so already? For me it works with Audirvana and Roon alike.

Unfortunately I have another problem I was not able to fix up to now:

Using Tidal with Audirvana causes the player to crash again and again...
That is: It is not really usable (anymore)...I suspect any incompatibility with recent Windows 10 Update(s). I am already on WIN10 1904...

Yesterday I started the 14 days trial period for Roon. Unfortunately it's much more expensive and kind of overloaded for my purposes...but it is more or less stable together with Tidal although from time to time there are also audio drop-outs and very slow response times...

Hope you can benefit from my experiences and hints.
Enjoy your DAC...it's just awesome...it lifted my setup with a (vintage but still excellent) pair of Infinity Kappa 8.2i speakers driven by a Rotel 1582 MKII power amp to a new performance level!

Cheers
Olli

RME ADI2-DAC FS | Intel NUC8i7
Rotel RB1582 MKII amp
Infinity Kappa 8.2i speakers
Audirvana player
  • ning
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Re: Sample rate should set automatically?

On Mac, the two projects I worked on (MPD and cmus) supports automatic sample rate switch, based on your music content.

Both are easily available on Homebrew install.

  • Registered: 2019-05-30
  • Posts: 25

Re: Sample rate should set automatically?

Olli wrote:

Hi hhrvoje,

I have an ADI-2 DAC and I have Audirvana and meanwhile Roon (see also comments below) on Windows 10.

If you want the sampling rate to adapt automatically you have to make sure that:

-> You are using a player that is able to work with ASIO

-> Install the MADIFACE Driver you can download from the RME-Website here:

https://archiv.rme-audio.de/download/dr … _09681.zip

This will enable the mandatory ASIO-Support. After the installation you have to select the MADIFACE Driver option in Audirvana, Roon or any other player which is capable to handle ASIO. Have you done so already? For me it works with Audirvana and Roon alike.

Cheers
Olli

I use Foobar and Tidal only, and have latest RME drivers with Win 10 v1903.
In foobar I can select RMEs ASIO driver, and that works fine, no other app can interfere and i have bit-perfect stream.
But in Tidal, even I select "exclusive mode", its not really exclusive, other apps can play also. For audio output driver there's "Analog (1+2)" which is RME, just under that strange name.
Im confused here if there's a way for Tidal to use bit perfect playback, like it did with Chord DAC.
On Chord DAC, I could see DAC switching to 96khz for MQA content and 44.1 for HIFI, where regular windows settings are 192khz.

~~ sound sommelier ~~

13 Reply by Olli (edited by Olli 2019-06-12 16:09:58)

  • Olli
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Re: Sample rate should set automatically?

Hi hhrvoje,

that‘s what I tried to make clear:

If you want to use the RME ASIO (MADIFACE) driver which enables the automatic switching along with TIDAL-support you are forced to buy one of the players that can handle that.
As already said: Audirvana does the job (if it doesn‘t crash) and Roon works as well.

The free TIDAL App unfortunately doesn‘t have the capability...so you encounter just the normal behavior!

Audirvana is around 75eur for a life time license.

Roon 119 usd for a yearly subscription and 419(!)usd (if I remember correctly) for a lifetime license.

I recommend to try Audirvana. first. As far as I remember you can test it freely for 4 weeks and then you can decide wheter to spend the 75 eur or not ;-)

I cross my fingers for you that it doesn‘t also crash on your machine like it is currently doing on mine.

Have a good time :-)

Olli

RME ADI2-DAC FS | Intel NUC8i7
Rotel RB1582 MKII amp
Infinity Kappa 8.2i speakers
Audirvana player

14 Reply by MC

  • MC
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Re: Sample rate should set automatically?

hhrvoje wrote:

Im confused here if there's a way for Tidal to use bit perfect playback, like it did with Chord DAC.
On Chord DAC, I could see DAC switching to 96khz for MQA content and 44.1 for HIFI, where regular windows settings are 192khz.

This forum meanwhile has plenty of spaces that explain that all you need to do is REMOVE the MADIface Series driver and use Windows own one. It is also in the latest manual.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2019-05-30
  • Posts: 25

Re: Sample rate should set automatically?

Olli wrote:

Hi hhrvoje,

that‘s what I tried to make clear:

If you want to use the RME ASIO (MADIFACE) driver which enables the automatic switching along with TIDAL-support you are forced to buy one of the players that can handle that.
As already said: Audirvana does the job (if it doesn‘t crash) and Roon works as well.

The free TIDAL App unfortunately doesn‘t have the capability...so you encounter just the normal behavior!

Olli

Maybe I wasn't clear in my previous answer where I mentioned Im using MQA and hifi streams on Tidal: I have hifi subscription for Tidal so i can use red book and hi res content from them.

Also, I reinstalled Windows yesterday,  installed RME drivers and Tidal/Foobar desktop apps, so its clean installation.

Foobar works fine with ASIO, other apps can't play while foobar is playing (so bit-perfect works!), and to see RMEs sampling rate switching in Tidal I had to install this virtual audio device driver (https://www.vb-audio.com/Cable/) where I can force RMEs asio output. But still other app can mix, its not exclusive and bit perfect sad

I don't use Roon and Audionirvana and do not want to pay (specially Roon!) if Tidal should work - and it worked with other DACs. Maybe this should be reported to RME as a bug in drivers, or Tidals "exclusive mode" which isn't exclusive actually, or Tidal doesn't like RME ...

~~ sound sommelier ~~
  • Registered: 2019-05-30
  • Posts: 25

Re: Sample rate should set automatically?

MC wrote:
hhrvoje wrote:

Im confused here if there's a way for Tidal to use bit perfect playback, like it did with Chord DAC.
On Chord DAC, I could see DAC switching to 96khz for MQA content and 44.1 for HIFI, where regular windows settings are 192khz.

This forum meanwhile has plenty of spaces that explain that all you need to do is REMOVE the MADIface Series driver and use Windows own one. It is also in the latest manual.

Source of this?
How can windows have ASIO drivers for RME!?

~~ sound sommelier ~~
  • ramses
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Re: Sample rate should set automatically?

Because the device is class compliant.

BR Ramses - UFX III, 12Mic, XTC, ADI-2 Pro FS R BE, RayDAT, X10SRi-F, E5-1680v4, Win10Pro22H2, Cub14

18 Reply by Olli (edited by Olli 2019-06-13 20:10:29)

  • Olli
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Re: Sample rate should set automatically?

Hey hhrvoje,

there is no Windows ASIO driver...

RME „extended“ the USB class compliance quite a while ago, so the automatic switching is possible with the on-board Windows USB-audio driver. If you want the „ultimate“ solution which is the ASIO one with professional audio background then you have to open your wallet a tiny bit and spend some money...period.

If you „just“ go for bit perfect playback (which you can essentially achive either with ASIO or the solution Matthias pointed out) then proceed with uninstalling the MADIface driver (if even installed).

By the way: There are several testXY.wav files you can download from the RME website which will be automatically recognized by the DAC when played back with a bit perfect player...the DAC will confirm that with a short message on its display as sonn as it is successfull.

Stay cheerful and enjoy the magic moments your DAC is definetely able to deliver to you ;-)

Kind regard
Olli

RME ADI2-DAC FS | Intel NUC8i7
Rotel RB1582 MKII amp
Infinity Kappa 8.2i speakers
Audirvana player
  • Trojka
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Re: Sample rate should set automatically?

hhrvoje wrote:
MC wrote:
hhrvoje wrote:

Im confused here if there's a way for Tidal to use bit perfect playback, like it did with Chord DAC.
On Chord DAC, I could see DAC switching to 96khz for MQA content and 44.1 for HIFI, where regular windows settings are 192khz.

This forum meanwhile has plenty of spaces that explain that all you need to do is REMOVE the MADIface Series driver and use Windows own one. It is also in the latest manual.

Source of this?

User MC = RME. Cannot get closer to the source.

  • Registered: 2019-05-30
  • Posts: 25

Re: Sample rate should set automatically?

Trojka wrote:

User MC = RME. Cannot get closer to the source.

What do you mean by "User MC = RME"?


Windows automatically upsamples audio to whatever is setup, so 192/24 in my case, and mixes different sources. Which is fine for normal PC usage, but for Foobar (FLAC, DSD) and Tidal (MQA, Red book) I want bit perfect playback - so normal win driver will not give me that, they always up-sample (tried), I need ASIO and thats included in MADiface drivers.

Manual says:
"For Windows the RME MADIface series driver adds WDM and ASIO."
"The highest sample rates and DSD modes can only be used via ASIO. RME’s driver supports DSD over ASIO in
DoP format as well as ASIO native. "
"Installing the RME drivers adds ASIO (PCM, DSD DoP and DSD Native), and extends WDM up
to 768 kHz. The drivers are also required for firmware updates and DIGICheck"

~~ sound sommelier ~~
  • Trojka
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Re: Sample rate should set automatically?

Oh I thought you meant the source of the info supplied by MC. User MC is admin of this forum and co-founder of RME.

But maybe you meant the source of the signal. smile

22 Reply by MC

  • MC
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Re: Sample rate should set automatically?

hhrvoje wrote:

Windows automatically upsamples audio to whatever is setup, so 192/24 in my case, and mixes different sources. Which is fine for normal PC usage, but for Foobar (FLAC, DSD) and Tidal (MQA, Red book) I want bit perfect playback - so normal win driver will not give me that

Of course they do. It's called WASAPI exclusive and supported by nearly all software out there.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

23 Reply by bejoro (edited by bejoro 2019-06-15 07:52:29)

  • bejoro
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Re: Sample rate should set automatically?

Sorry, I am a little bit confused. I use only ASIO with Windows and CC with Linux.

But the RME MADIFace WASAPI driver does not support automatic SR change?
Only the Windows 10 CC driver supports automatic SR change?
So you have to uninstall the RME drivers if you want to use WASAPI Exclusive and automatic SR change?
Correct?

bejoro's Website

24 Reply by MC

  • MC
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Re: Sample rate should set automatically?

Several times now mentioned in this forum. Just read the firmware release information:

https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopi … 06#p132206

https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopi … 81#p135881

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • bejoro
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Re: Sample rate should set automatically?

Yes, I know. From your previous answer, I thought something has changed.
So, nothing changed.

BTW, a simple "Yes" would have been much easier for you and less time consuming.

bejoro's Website

26 Reply by hhrvoje (edited by hhrvoje 2019-06-17 18:34:52)

  • Registered: 2019-05-30
  • Posts: 25

Re: Sample rate should set automatically?

I just tried to uninstall RME drivers (as described, cp/sound,video, game controllers, remove files checkbox), restarted Windows, and its even worse:
- just 2 settings for sampling rate in windows: 32/48, 32/44
- if i use "test" in Sound/Playback win dialog, drivers crashes and switched to another device, and RME doesn't work at all until i restart win or turn off/on RME
- exclusive mode now doesn't work in Foobar, its always resampling to 48khz
- Tidal also always uses 48, even for MQA content

Looks like windows is not picking up correct settings from RME ...

UPDATE: win10 sampling rate settings now offers all values, not just 44/48. But exclusive  mode still doesn't work.

~~ sound sommelier ~~
  • Registered: 2019-05-30
  • Posts: 25

Re: Sample rate should set automatically?

Maybe this is why Tidal doesn't work well with RME drivers:
https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/com … s_dsp_and/
their Exclusive mode doesn't work at all with RME! Still no clue why it works well with Chord dac, but well...
Great read anyway, explains how to use Tidal and get bit perfect playback with RME, just it will costs extra €100/year for Roon subscription:(

~~ sound sommelier ~~

28 Reply by MC

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Re: Sample rate should set automatically?

Foobar's WASAPI playback needs to be set to Push (default is Event) to be able to work at other sample rates than 44.1 kHz. Seems to be a bug in Foobar.

I have no clue what justifies the statement 'their Exclusive mode doesn't work at all with RME'. It does work.

BTW, did you read the whole article? Quote:

>> I repeated the experiment on a different machine (clean windows install) this morning with a different external DAC (hdvd800) and had an identical result. Its absolutely an issue with Tidal.

And this seems to be a statement of yours which can't be more misleading:

>> Btw RME says that drivers are not required any more since dac is usb 2 complaint, but then sampling rate switching doesn't work

Supporting the change of sample rate by non-ASIO apps was the sole reason to add this mode, and it works.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website

  • Registered: 2019-05-30
  • Posts: 25

Re: Sample rate should set automatically?

MC wrote:

Foobar's WASAPI playback needs to be set to Push (default is Event) to be able to work at other sample rates than 44.1 kHz. Seems to be a bug in Foobar.

I have no clue what justifies the statement 'their Exclusive mode doesn't work at all with RME'. It does work.

BTW, did you read the whole article? Quote:

>> I repeated the experiment on a different machine (clean windows install) this morning with a different external DAC (hdvd800) and had an identical result. Its absolutely an issue with Tidal.

And this seems to be a statement of yours which can't be more misleading:

>> Btw RME says that drivers are not required any more since dac is usb 2 complaint, but then sampling rate switching doesn't work

Supporting the change of sample rate by non-ASIO apps was the sole reason to add this mode, and it works.

Yes, looks like its Tidals issue, not RME, my mistake.

But, without Madiface drivers, I couldn't get sampling rate go higher that 24/48, automatic sampling rate switching didn't work (at least with apps im using), and had bunch of issues. So for me, installing drivers is the only choice. If it works for you, I don't know how and if Im doing something wrong.

~~ sound sommelier ~~

30 Reply by MC

  • MC
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Re: Sample rate should set automatically?

As I wrote above: switching sample rates under Windows UAC2 requires to use WASAPI Exclusive and apps that support this format. There are plenty out there, though.

Regards
Matthias Carstens
RME

MC's Website